Is it possible that psychoemotional breakthroughs increase K needs?

[sueami]

Or perhaps, that ongoing methylation support can eventually create psychoemotional breakthroughs?

I had an interesting set of experiences and I'm still trying to connect the dots, if any, between them.

I have been reading up on recovery/improvement stories with CFS, in the wake of a vacation-induced crash that is not resolving very quickly.

Among the pieces of advice that intrigued me was to journal -- in particular to record dreams and ask for dream insights on how to live a more joyful, creative and peaceful life within the constraints of current energy levels (rather than asking how to heal. The point behind this particular distinction was that acceptance was key to increasing peace and consequently energy levels and that make sense to me. Plus so many recovery/improvement stories seem to focus around acceptance and pacing, rather than some supplement or treatment regimen, so I decided to give it a try).

As soon as I set that intention three days ago, I started remembering and writing down vivid dreams. The first night was an excellent dream that I took as encouragement to look for the places where I have poured or left my energy outside of myself, and I mulled the various ways people do that.

The second night, I had what was for me an unusual bad night of shallow sleep punctuated by heart palpitation sensations that I forgot (until the next morning) that I'd had before and associated with potassium deficiency. Those dreams were not as insightful.

After making the connection with potassium yesterday morning, I upped my K from 1500mg a day by another 2x300mg or so during the day and set a glass of water with about 400 mg of nosalt in it by the bed last night. I awoke with lesser heart palpitation sensations at about the same time last night and drank down the water and had a handful of cashews, in case hunger was also an issue.

I slept deeply the rest of the night and awoke from a profound dream in which I identified a place in my psyche where I had long ago shadowed an aspect of myself and felt released from that. I awoke with the same feeling of energy and openness to the coming day that I remember experiencing back in my 20s. It was really a thrilling feeling/insight.

I started to wonder whether there was any connection between suddenly needing more potassium and doing this psychological work of accepting my health situation, looking to reclaim psychic/psychological energy and starting to pace and reframe my life in light of being ill.

I haven't upped my folate in a month or so. I'm at 1600 mcg per day (though a few days ago increased it to 2000mcg but felt unpleasantly racy and did not repeat the experiment.). LCF is static at 500mg and MB12 is more or less steady at 1600 mcg/day or so (I am never sure how much I am asborbing from tabs but I aim for 5000mcg in 1,000mcg B12 Infusion tabs and hope I'm getting 1600 absorbed out of them. Every other day I inject 1000mcg mb12 and take fewer tabs on that day.) I did double my Adenosylcobalamin one day recently to a 10,000mcg tab instead of half a tab, after reading that Freddd loads AdB12 one day a week and somewhat separately from mb12.

I wonder if increasing the AdB12 could have caused an uptick in healing that required more potassium. I also wonder whether psychological breakthroughs can be considered a form of neurological healing.

Lastly, I wonder if the sudden potassium deficiency is telling me that there is a new layer of healing ready to happen and I should keep trying to bump up my b12/folate, once I stabilize potassium levels of course.

I suppose I could try increasing by a quarter tab of folate instead of the 400mcg half tab I tried, and see if that results in no raciness/wiredness. I assume that people who are increasing their folate and MB12 are managing to do it without unpleasant reactions, but perhaps I just need to push through that feeling.

Any feedback would be appreciated,
Sue

 

[whodathunkit]

@sueami, I hope Freddd chimes in because he's actually talked a bit about some of the psychological ramifications of recovering your health. I myself kind of feel like I'm reverting to a period about 10-15 years ago, before my adrenals flatlined, but were in the process of failing, and my hormones were really messed up. A lot of old behaviors (serial bad temper, terminal crankiness, etc.) that I haven't had to deal with in a while are resurfacing. I'd think maybe it was overmethylation, but it feels suspiciously like it did when I was on my way down. Like maybe I'm on my way back up now.

Or it could be the next phase in my hormonal journey. 50 is such a lovely age. I'm personally hoping for "on my way back up" instead of "next phase in my hormonal journey".

Only time will tell.

I don't know what to tell you about folate right now, so again, hopefully Freddd will hit you. Just wanted to chime in about the emotional component.

 

[Freddd]

Or perhaps, that ongoing methylation support can eventually create psychoemotional breakthroughs?

I had an interesting set of experiences and I'm still trying to connect the dots, if any, between them.

I have been reading up on recovery/improvement stories with CFS, in the wake of a vacation-induced crash that is not resolving very quickly.

Among the pieces of advice that intrigued me was to journal -- in particular to record dreams and ask for dream insights on how to live a more joyful, creative and peaceful life within the constraints of current energy levels (rather than asking how to heal. The point behind this particular distinction was that acceptance was key to increasing peace and consequently energy levels and that make sense to me. Plus so many recovery/improvement stories seem to focus around acceptance and pacing, rather than some supplement or treatment regimen, so I decided to give it a try).

As soon as I set that intention three days ago, I started remembering and writing down vivid dreams. The first night was an excellent dream that I took as encouragement to look for the places where I have poured or left my energy outside of myself, and I mulled the various ways people do that.

The second night, I had what was for me an unusual bad night of shallow sleep punctuated by heart palpitation sensations that I forgot (until the next morning) that I'd had before and associated with potassium deficiency. Those dreams were not as insightful.

After making the connection with potassium yesterday morning, I upped my K from 1500mg a day by another 2x300mg or so during the day and set a glass of water with about 400 mg of nosalt in it by the bed last night. I awoke with lesser heart palpitation sensations at about the same time last night and drank down the water and had a handful of cashews, in case hunger was also an issue.

I slept deeply the rest of the night and awoke from a profound dream in which I identified a place in my psyche where I had long ago shadowed an aspect of myself and felt released from that. I awoke with the same feeling of energy and openness to the coming day that I remember experiencing back in my 20s. It was really a thrilling feeling/insight.

I started to wonder whether there was any connection between suddenly needing more potassium and doing this psychological work of accepting my health situation, looking to reclaim psychic/psychological energy and starting to pace and reframe my life in light of being ill.

I haven't upped my folate in a month or so. I'm at 1600 mcg per day (though a few days ago increased it to 2000mcg but felt unpleasantly racy and did not repeat the experiment.). LCF is static at 500mg and MB12 is more or less steady at 1600 mcg/day or so (I am never sure how much I am asborbing from tabs but I aim for 5000mcg in 1,000mcg B12 Infusion tabs and hope I'm getting 1600 absorbed out of them. Every other day I inject 1000mcg mb12 and take fewer tabs on that day.) I did double my Adenosylcobalamin one day recently to a 10,000mcg tab instead of half a tab, after reading that Freddd loads AdB12 one day a week and somewhat separately from mb12.

I wonder if increasing the AdB12 could have caused an uptick in healing that required more potassium. I also wonder whether psychological breakthroughs can be considered a form of neurological healing.

Lastly, I wonder if the sudden potassium deficiency is telling me that there is a new layer of healing ready to happen and I should keep trying to bump up my b12/folate, once I stabilize potassium levels of course.

I suppose I could try increasing by a quarter tab of folate instead of the 400mcg half tab I tried, and see if that results in no raciness/wiredness. I assume that people who are increasing their folate and MB12 are managing to do it without unpleasant reactions, but perhaps I just need to push through that feeling.

Any feedback would be appreciated,
Sue

Hi Sue,

I'll take swing at connecting the dots, a lot of it from my own experiences. I'm a Tantric Alchemist. That is all about changing and healing mind, body and soul.

Or perhaps, that ongoing methylation support can eventually create psychoemotional breakthroughs?

YES! And it takes ATP startup to with AdoCbl. Getting CNS healing going affects many areas in the brain. One of my experiences was that when these various parts of the brain were coming back on line, old forgotten things came up and could be cleared, things put aside when I was too sick to deal with them. A lot of people are very put off by this but it seems essential to me. Emotions can get very ragged and volatile during these periods. I recovered memories that had been hidden by concussion damage for decades, a very difficult memory.

That 10mg dose of AdoCbl might have been enough to penetrate the CNS more deeply and get it into the parts of the brain deprived of it. That would cause a different type of "energy" than MeCbl/Metafolin. "Racy" isn't generally known to be dangerous. It is the feeling of where the brain is at in methylation energy and where is could normalizer to. Differences are what we feel. This brightening can only happen if there was a dimming in the first place.

I wonder if increasing the AdB12 could have caused an uptick in healing that required more potassium. I also wonder whether psychological breakthroughs can be considered a form of neurological healing.

Yes, the AdoCbl might have started another layer or two healing and make for a modest potassium increase. There will be hundreds of neuropsyc changes during the course of healing and I find it is best to do the work as each of these things comes up rather than suppressing these results as something terrible. Neurological healing appears to require activation of the affected areas. Use of the muscles encourages growth and healing and mito proliferation. Neurological activation is required for healing. Christopher Reeve was working on that basis of stimulating the nerves too. He had gotten to the point of being able to walk in the swimming pool. Tantric massage can trigger usage in the damaged limbic portion of the brain and generation of dopamine and oxytocin. I've mentioned that elsewhere on these forums. There is research going on currently to document the healing obtained through ecstatic massage and activation of the limbic area. The doctor researching it had the experience of healing herself. In giving Tantric massages, and received, I have been on both ends of seeing others release traumas and recover memories and on releasing my own traumas and recovering memories. I think that both the nutrition and the ecstatic massage work together in neuropsych healing.

If you keep pushing against the "brightening" the edge will keep retreating until you reach equilibrium and that feeling disappears because there ceases to be that kind of change.

 

[sueami]

I'm really kind of blown away to think that these insights and this subtle but profound shift in my mood/perception of daily life today could be triggered by an increase in a b vitamin. I'm utterly delighted by it, but rather stunned as well.

I have been wondering all day if what I am feeling today is at base a lifting of some low level of depression that I was unaware I'd been experiencing for many years, or if it is a profound personal insight reverberating or if those two are really any different. Brightening is a good term for it.

I actually love doing growth work, though I haven't been motivated to do a significant amount of it in recent years, so I'm excited to get back to journaling and working my dreams. It's funny you should mention tantric work, as the insight I woke with this morning had to do with blocked aspects of my sexuality and it's interesting that that should be some of the first lost energy to be reintegrated. Perhaps natural, in a chakra-oriented view of things.

I will definitely continue to step up the deadlock quartet supplements; this has been a profound confirmation of their effects on me.

 

[ahmo]

@sueami

I'm really kind of blown away to think that these insights and this subtle but profound shift in my mood/perception of daily life today could be triggered by an increase in a b vitamin. I'm utterly delighted by it, but rather stunned as well.

I've had exactly this experience at a few discreet points. When I added the pyroluria supps (P5P, zinc, maybe TMG). Later, adding low dose lithium orotate. Again after a massive detox of adrenals. Other shifts in behavior, attitudes, release of physical restrictions have been more gradual, incremental. Including the relief from insomnia and a sense of calm that grew w/ improved methylation. Like you, I've been blown away that behavior and temperamental aspects I'd struggled with, and *worked on* for decades, evaporated w/ corrections to my biochemistry.

 

[Freddd]

@sueami

I've had exactly this experience at a few discreet points. When I added the pyroluria supps (P5P, zinc, maybe TMG). Later, adding low dose lithium orotate. Again after a massive detox of adrenals. Other shifts in behavior, attitudes, release of physical restrictions have been more gradual, incremental. Including the relief from insomnia and a sense of calm that grew w/ improved methylation. Like you, I've been blown away that behavior and temperamental aspects I'd struggled with, and *worked on* for decades, evaporated w/ corrections to my biochemistry.

Neuropsychology is clearly more significant than most would suspect. And it includes ATP as well as methylation.

 

[Freddd]

Or perhaps, that ongoing methylation support can eventually create psychoemotional breakthroughs?

I had an interesting set of experiences and I'm still trying to connect the dots, if any, between them.

I have been reading up on recovery/improvement stories with CFS, in the wake of a vacation-induced crash that is not resolving very quickly.

Among the pieces of advice that intrigued me was to journal -- in particular to record dreams and ask for dream insights on how to live a more joyful, creative and peaceful life within the constraints of current energy levels (rather than asking how to heal. The point behind this particular distinction was that acceptance was key to increasing peace and consequently energy levels and that make sense to me. Plus so many recovery/improvement stories seem to focus around acceptance and pacing, rather than some supplement or treatment regimen, so I decided to give it a try).

As soon as I set that intention three days ago, I started remembering and writing down vivid dreams. The first night was an excellent dream that I took as encouragement to look for the places where I have poured or left my energy outside of myself, and I mulled the various ways people do that.

The second night, I had what was for me an unusual bad night of shallow sleep punctuated by heart palpitation sensations that I forgot (until the next morning) that I'd had before and associated with potassium deficiency. Those dreams were not as insightful.

After making the connection with potassium yesterday morning, I upped my K from 1500mg a day by another 2x300mg or so during the day and set a glass of water with about 400 mg of nosalt in it by the bed last night. I awoke with lesser heart palpitation sensations at about the same time last night and drank down the water and had a handful of cashews, in case hunger was also an issue.

I slept deeply the rest of the night and awoke from a profound dream in which I identified a place in my psyche where I had long ago shadowed an aspect of myself and felt released from that. I awoke with the same feeling of energy and openness to the coming day that I remember experiencing back in my 20s. It was really a thrilling feeling/insight.

I started to wonder whether there was any connection between suddenly needing more potassium and doing this psychological work of accepting my health situation, looking to reclaim psychic/psychological energy and starting to pace and reframe my life in light of being ill.

I haven't upped my folate in a month or so. I'm at 1600 mcg per day (though a few days ago increased it to 2000mcg but felt unpleasantly racy and did not repeat the experiment.). LCF is static at 500mg and MB12 is more or less steady at 1600 mcg/day or so (I am never sure how much I am asborbing from tabs but I aim for 5000mcg in 1,000mcg B12 Infusion tabs and hope I'm getting 1600 absorbed out of them. Every other day I inject 1000mcg mb12 and take fewer tabs on that day.) I did double my Adenosylcobalamin one day recently to a 10,000mcg tab instead of half a tab, after reading that Freddd loads AdB12 one day a week and somewhat separately from mb12.

I wonder if increasing the AdB12 could have caused an uptick in healing that required more potassium. I also wonder whether psychological breakthroughs can be considered a form of neurological healing.

Lastly, I wonder if the sudden potassium deficiency is telling me that there is a new layer of healing ready to happen and I should keep trying to bump up my b12/folate, once I stabilize potassium levels of course.

I suppose I could try increasing by a quarter tab of folate instead of the 400mcg half tab I tried, and see if that results in no raciness/wiredness. I assume that people who are increasing their folate and MB12 are managing to do it without unpleasant reactions, but perhaps I just need to push through that feeling.

Any feedback would be appreciated,
Sue

Hi Sue,

I had a similar amazing experience with the brightening. All the things that had faded away and been forgotten came back. Every sense I had improved. All the various things not dealt with in decades of illness came up to be dealt with. Yes, it was trying. Yes it was a lot of work. Yes, it gave me a life back. During the decades of illness I gave up everything; every want, every interest, every relationship. To have everything dashed on the rocks of pain and ill health over and over again, to not be able to do anything physical with my children, was far too painful. Then to be allowed to have some choices again, to be able to plan something and do it, to be able to do ordinary things like cook a meal or take a shower without assistance was good. It took a number of years to regain capacity. To be able to use my super sharp French Chef's knife again was a joy after not being able to use it for 5 years because of clumsy accidents with it. It took a while for me to trust that the changes were real.

The first thing I did after the initial brightening was that I decided that I needed a little breadth of information. I didn't know how widespread a noticeable response to MeCbl was. So I went out and did an N=1000 questionnaire study with a single MeCbl dose. I learned that people without any symptoms of a specific type had no noticeable response to MeCbl and that virtually everybody with a good selection of suitable symptoms had a noticeable response; the strength and intensity of the response relating to the number and severity of the symptoms. So, in fact my immediate response was "normal" in this group of people with lots of FMS/CFS/ME and similar symptoms.

I had to work through 20 years of accumulated unprocessed emotional and trauma material. It was a lot of work and well worth it.

 

[Cheesus]

The heart stores its traumas. As we go through healing processes they need to be released. This would be an excellent time to take up insght meditation (mindfulness), so that you can hold these things in compassion and equanimity and allow them to move through you unhindered. I have been going through a similar cleansing experience and am now just coming out the other side a lot happier.

 

[whodathunkit]

Having enough ATP to have the physical energy to process is really important. I've been doing a lot of pondering about how and why it is that we frequently find our physical ATP generation processes compromised by the very traumas we need to have the energy to process. We can't process the trauma precisely because we've been traumatised. Or something like that. If it made sense. LOL

 

[Freddd]

Having enough ATP to have the physical energy to process is really important. I've been doing a lot of pondering about how and why it is that we frequently find our physical ATP generation processes compromised by the very traumas we need to have the energy to process. We can't process the trauma precisely because we've been traumatised. Or something like that. If it made sense. LOL

Hi Whodathunkit,

I've been pondering this for about 35 years. The answer I came up with is the Deadlock Quartet that is delicately balanced. Most any virus, bacteria, traumatic injury, vaccination perhaps, and who knows what else, can crash that balance and put the whole cycle into a deadlock. When a person has partial methylation/ATP block in the brain, the moods, personality and psychology get all messed up and things just keep building up and getting worse. Anxiety, fear, anger, rage, depression, and paranoia get amplified. Poly sensory hallucinations happen and if people give those credibility they can become a serious problem. Neuropsyc problems with these deficiencies ranges from brainfog to florid psychosis and everything in between. These are very difficult to solve from inside because as you say, the neurochemistry needed to solve these problems isn't present. It becomes part of the vicious cycle. For me that was 17 years stuck in hell.

 

[ahmo]

@Freddd I gather from your comments here that ATP is distinct from the methylation cycle, rather than a part of it?? thx.

 

[Freddd]

@Freddd I gather from your comments here that ATP is distinct from the methylation cycle, rather than a part of it?? thx.

Hi Ahmo,

You bet your AdoCbl it is distinct. The two parts collide in that they are both needed for cell, formation, neurotransmitter formation, enzyme activities and so on. They operate on two entirely different pathways; one leads to single carbon transactions (methyl groups, CH4) and the other produces ATP. These each affect hundreds of overlapping biochemical operations that involves the other. They are mutually dependent on each other. Right at the beginning Rich made clear that we were talking about different things, that I was casting the net much wider with both methylation and ATP production.

 

[sueami]

Well, as has happened before for me, that particular methylation breakthrough faded after a day and a half, though, I think I'm reverting back to a baseline that is somewhat higher than before it happened. In particular, I feel calmer about the backsliding. As @whodathunkit says, three steps forward two steps back.

I'm choosing to view this as my body sending me the next signal about what it needs. I took a full-tab of the Adb12 today, to see if that might be what it is asking for.

Perhaps kicking into a new level of healing uses up the available methylation co factors after a day or so and that's why I fade away. I'm bumping up the folate and mb12 by 200 mcg a day to see what happens and I think I'm ready to increase LCF as well.

@Cheesus (I have to say that is one of the best names and avatars on this whole site -- makes me smile every time I see it), I'm a huge fan of vipassana meditation, though I haven't had the focus or intrinsic motivation to stay with a daily practice for very long in the 15 years since my daughter was born. I'm hoping that this brightening, if it resurges, will bring with it an ability to stick with a daily practice.

The frustrating thing for me is that I've always had an urge to live healthily (eating cleanly, yoga, meditation and general mindfulness) but I often have felt unable to stick with the program for long, at least until getting sick enough that I had to in order to stop feeling worse, which could be viewed as the cosmic point of CFS, I suppose.

 

[Cheesus]

I don't know how ill you are, but maybe see if you can find a local sangha that you can attend regularly. This might get you back into the swing of things. I know my meditations are so grounding when I meditate with others. Also try to get into the habit by setting a specific time each day for meditation. After a shower and before breakfast is good!

 

[sueami]

I could attend a sit, I think (with spotty attendance). Good advice. We don't have a vipassana style community here in town, at least not last I checked. I like my insight meditation really stripped down and not much ritual or religious structure to it. I suppose I could hit some of the more complicated communities and ignore the overlay of ritual and dogma.

 

[Cheesus]

I could attend a sit, I think (with spotty attendance). Good advice. We don't have a vipassana style community here in town, at least not last I checked. I like my insight meditation really stripped down and not much ritual or religious structure to it. I suppose I could hit some of the more complicated communities and ignore the overlay of ritual and dogma.

When I was well enough I attended a local sit that was just 4 people in someone's front room. There wasn't even a guided element or anything. We just sat there for 45 minutes in silent meditation then went home. It was great. I am really eager to get back to that when I can.

There are a couple of other things I have here. One is actually a monthly meeting at a christian monastery. Again it is just silent meditation. Alternatively you could even attend a Quaker meeting. My mum is a Quaker, and they sit in silence for an hour reflecting. Occasionally someone gets up to tell the room something they have been reflecting on, then everyone goes back to sitting quietly. Quakers are basically the Buddhists of Christianity. If you wanted to go along to your local meeting with the intention to sit and focus on the arising and passing away of present experience, I am certain you would be more than welcome. Many Quakers don't even necessarily believe in God.