Inosine Reaction

Mij

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Just wanted to update on the Inosine. I had symptoms (vertigo, sore throat etc) when I first started this thread in August so I stopped taking Inosine for 3 weeks. I restarted 2 months ago, stopped for 3 weeks, restarted with 2x/day and now up to 3x/day and I'm feeling good, actually, really good. I'm going to give it a rest again starting tomorrow. So maybe it's the Inosine that is helping. I may have had a bad reaction(relapse) to Isoprinosine years ago because I should have pulsed it as Dr.Cheney explains.

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/drugs/isoprinosine.html
 

alice

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Just wanted to update on the Inosine. I had symptoms (vertigo, sore throat etc) when I first started this thread in August so I stopped taking Inosine for 3 weeks. I restarted 2 months ago, stopped for 3 weeks, restarted with 2x/day and now up to 3x/day and I'm feeling good, actually, really good. I'm going to give it a rest again starting tomorrow. So maybe it's the Inosine that is helping. I may have had a bad reaction(relapse) to Isoprinosine years ago because I should have pulsed it as Dr.Cheney explains.

http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/drugs/isoprinosine.html

mij,

I'll update as well. I also started Inosine in Aug, but quit after a couple doses because of intolerable reaction - severe back and neck pain, headache, fatigue and flu like feeling. I just started again last week by using the swish and spit method. I dump one capsule into my mouth and swish it around for several minutes and then spit it out. The reaction has been a milder form of what I experienced before. So I decided to do it every other day.

I'm encouraged by your good report so I'll continue with the swish and spit this week and next week try swallowing the capsule and see what happens. Thanks for reporting back.
 

Mij

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Alice, your reaction to Inosine is similar to the reaction I had with Isoprinosine- ie severe back pain, headache, vertigo etc. I think what you are doing with the swish and spit is a good idea. Taking it slow seems to be the way to go and even stopping altogether for a few weeks.

I'm guessing you are not taking Equilibriant in combo with Inosine, this is what Dr.Chia rec to my friend who is a patient of his. I took Equilibriant a couple of years ago with no negative reaction so I may add this soon. I like the way I'm feeling and added just a little more exercise to my routine to see how soon the PENE comes on.
 

alice

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Alice, your reaction to Inosine is similar to the reaction I had with Isoprinosine- ie severe back pain, headache, vertigo etc. I think what you are doing with the swish and spit is a good idea. Taking it slow seems to be the way to go and even stopping altogether for a few weeks.

I'm guessing you are not taking Equilibriant in combo with Inosine, this is what Dr.Chia rec to my friend who is a patient of his. I took Equilibriant a couple of years ago with no negative reaction so I may add this soon. I like the way I'm feeling and added just a little more exercise to my routine to see how soon the PENE comes on.
Hi Mij,

I'm not taking Equilibriant at this point. I just had the enterovirus test done at Dr. Chia's lab. (I had an upper endoscopy done about a month ago and sent biopsy tissue to his lab). It tested positive. Right now I'm trying to decide whether to schedule an appointment with Dr. Chia - about 400 mi from here - or whether to just order the Equilibriant.

I took another Swish & Spit Inosine yesterday and today have the usual aching legs and back and headache and feeling very fatigued.

It gets to the point where one wonders how many different ways a person can treat this. I am also doing GcMaf (one dose a week). This makes me feel terrible for at least one day after. I'm also dealing with newly diagnosed colitis (found this out when I had the colonoscopy).

I'm really glad to hear that you are doing quite well - maybe go slow -- don't rock the boat :D
 

Mij

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Hi Alice,

If your test showed positive for Enterovirus then the Equilibrant/Inosine combo is supposed to be quite effective. Dr.Chia rec'd to my friend x3 Inosine and up to x6 Equilibriant. I would like to have this test done too, this way I would know that I'm actually treating something. But since you also take GcMaf, then yeah you definately don't want to rock the boat. You are braver than me. If it takes me 2 yrs to build up to taking the combo than so be it. I've had this for 22yrs so what's a few more years? lol
 

Lotus97

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Does it matter which brand of inosine we're taking? I've been taking Swanson's brand. I'm taking a lot supplements so I can't really tell if it's working. I probably won't buy any more for awhile.
 

Mij

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Does it matter which brand of inosine we're taking? I've been taking Swanson's brand. I'm taking a lot supplements so I can't really tell if it's working. I probably won't buy any more for awhile.
Dr. Chia recommends Life Extension brand.
 

Lotus97

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sounds like its getting your immune system to work, if getting too many symptoms from it just take a break for a day or 2 and/or use a lower dose for awhile
Could other immune system supplements cause this? I started taking bunch of immune system supplements (including inosine) and started feeling worse after that. In another thread someone mentioned something about a cytokine flare which might be different than what you're referring to, but I'm having a hard time understanding what's going on. Never in a million years would I have guessed that supplements for the immune system would make someone feel worse.
 

heapsreal

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Could other immune system supplements cause this? I started taking bunch of immune system supplements (including inosine) and started feeling worse after that. In another thread someone mentioned something about a cytokine flare which might be different than what you're referring to, but I'm having a hard time understanding what's going on. Never in a million years would I have guessed that supplements for the immune system would make someone feel worse.
Yes, die off reaction can occurr. Usually the terrible feeling one gets froma virus etc is partly due to the immune system secreting cytokines etc to help fight the infections.
 

Lotus97

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Yes, die off reaction can occurr. Usually the terrible feeling one gets froma virus etc is partly due to the immune system secreting cytokines etc to help fight the infections.
Thanks for the reply. I'm still a little confused about if the cytokines people are referring to are good or bad. If the cytokines are fighting the infections then isn't that a good thing? I didn't realize they could cause a herx though. Except for probiotics which I think my body needs and a little bit of coconut oil (has caprylic acid), I've been very careful to avoid anything that could cause a herx. Just found out lactoferrin has antibacterial and antimicrobial properties so I'm stopping that. Same thing with Noni juice although I've heard people say Noni juice helped with the herx which is strange since it kills pathogenic organisms.
 

heapsreal

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Thanks for the reply. I'm still a little confused about if the cytokines people are referring to are good or bad. If the cytokines are fighting the infections then isn't that a good thing? I didn't realize they could cause a herx though. Except for probiotics which I think my body needs and a little bit of coconut oil (has caprylic acid), I've been very careful to avoid anything that could cause a herx. Just found out lactoferrin has antibacterial and antimicrobial properties so I'm stopping that. Same thing with Noni juice although I've heard people say Noni juice helped with the herx which is strange since it kills pathogenic organisms.
a good thing to a point, if symptoms are intolerable then its not a good place to be, so then take a break. Over time hopefully it lowers the infectious load and less die off cytokines are produced and what substance/dose cause bad symptoms can then become easy to tolerate. If that makes sense.
 

Lotus97

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a good thing to a point, if symptoms are intolerable then its not a good place to be, so then take a break. Over time hopefully it lowers the infectious load and less die off cytokines are produced and what substance/dose cause bad symptoms can then become easy to tolerate. If that makes sense.
I think so. Is there anything I can do? (aside from getting plenty of rest)
 

Ema

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Thanks for the reply. I'm still a little confused about if the cytokines people are referring to are good or bad. If the cytokines are fighting the infections then isn't that a good thing? I didn't realize they could cause a herx though.
Cytokines can either be pro or anti inflammatory. It's when the pro inflammatory ones get out of balance that there can be trouble.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10767254

Ema
 

heapsreal

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Is it possible to raise only the anti inflammatory ones? And is that a good thing? Or are they the ones that are fighting the infections which causes a herx as heapsreal said?
I suppose the immune system is doing this for a reason?? One reason behind taking antioxidants is for its anti-inflammatory affects and can help reduce any damage. Stopping those inflammatory cytokines is one of those million dollar questions in cfs/me but they do have drugs that block some of those things and are used in other conditions and auto-immune diseases. could be hard to get a doc to prescribe them for cfs/me.
 

Ema

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Is it possible to raise only the anti inflammatory ones? And is that a good thing? Or are they the ones that are fighting the infections which causes a herx as heapsreal said?
It is a million dollar question. I agree with Heaps that antioxidants can be helpful. I certainly take a variety! But I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point.

Cortisol is one of the body's strongest anti-inflammatories...so if there is HPA axis dysfunction resulting in low cortisol that can also play a role. Correcting that deficiency if it exists often makes a big difference especially if histamine is out of control.

You could spend a lifetime reading about any one aspect of this illness alone which is why it can be so overwhelming at times! Hopefully we will continue to learn more in time about how all these systems interact.

Ema
 

Lotus97

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You could spend a lifetime reading about any one aspect of this illness alone which is why it can be so overwhelming at times! Hopefully we will continue to learn more in time about how all these systems interact.

Ema
Part of the reason I'm asking these questions is because I just spent a lot of money on supplements for the immune system. Even if I had done more research on the supplements I don't think I would have known that they could cause problems for some people. Especially since I didn't know what cytokines were.

I sort of jumped on cytokines, but for Inosine it looks like it actually lowers cytokines.
http://ajrccm.atsjournals.org/content/164/7/1213.long
Since heapsreal suggested that a person's reaction to Inosine was based on the immune system starting up does that mean that anything that aids the immune system could potentially cause problems?

Also, heapsreal suggested taking a break so does that mean I can take these, but only in moderation? Even though most of my bottles are unopened it would be a real hassle to return them all. I understand taking antioxidants in the short term, but if my immune is dysfunctional than I have to do something about it eventually. I actually did make a recovery last year and most of my supplements weren't for the immune system plus I was doing many other things to aid in my recovery besides just taking supplements. Now that I've completely crashed again and I also have Lyme and possible co infections I thought I could speed up the recovery process by aiding my immune system with these supplements.
 

Lotus97

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After almost a month of research I'm back with more questions. It seems inosine is supposed to shift our immune system from Th2 to Th1. Since CFS experts such as Dr. Cheney believe that many of us are Th2 dominant, taking inosine seems like a good thing. However, I've read in this thread and other threads people having adverse reactions to inosine. Is this reaction due to stimulating a Th1 immune response which then attempts to fight off the infection? Could it also be from Th1 cytokines released? Or both? And what happens if we take Th2 supplements such as Pycnogenol, resveratrol, or curcumin at the same time to inhibit inflammatory cytokines? How do we find a balance?