First thing to do with the data anyway is to replicate published values (means, SD etc) as this helps validate a correct understanding of the formats etc. I think it would be hard to fabricate data whilst keeping known values valid.
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Information Commissioner's Office orders release of PACE trial data
- Thread starter Sasha
- Start date
First thing to do with the data anyway is to replicate published values (means, SD etc) as this helps validate a correct understanding of the formats etc. I think it would be hard to fabricate data whilst keeping known values valid.
John Mac
Senior Member
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I
If they are forced to hand over the data they will probably redact as much as possible to make it worthless. Then we start the merrygoround all over again. I think it will still be quite some time before we see all the data.
SOC
Senior Member
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Oh, that's good! It explains both why they wouldn't want to release the data (if they fudged it) AND why they'd be so freaked a patient would recognize their own data (which the patient should already know anyway).
skipskip30
Senior Member
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Yes altering the data would be a serious crime so i really doubt they would do it either.
A.B.
Senior Member
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I find the patient reports of harms associated with GET very difficult to reconcile with the PACE narrative that GET is a very safe treatment.
The reported physical function scores are not those of mildly sick patients that might be able to do GET without risking deterioration.
So where did all the deterioration go? Did it magically disappear?
That's where the fraud lies I suspect. A career ender if it was discovered - hiding severe adverse effects is serious matter.
The reported physical function scores are not those of mildly sick patients that might be able to do GET without risking deterioration.
So where did all the deterioration go? Did it magically disappear?
That's where the fraud lies I suspect. A career ender if it was discovered - hiding severe adverse effects is serious matter.
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SOC
Senior Member
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Why? Researchers have fabricated data in the past knowing it was fraudulent. They do it because they feel their careers and reputations are on the line. And they don't think they'll get caught. Sound familiar?
The data requested includes no personal information so they should not redact anything
meadowlark
Senior Member
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- Toronto, Canada
Okay, you can be the Egg Sample
"Egg Sample" works for me!
All this reminds me of two dialect books I used in drama school, "Let's Talk Strine" (Let's Talk Australian) and "Fraffly Well Spoken" (Frightfully Well Spoken). They were more or less blunt instruments to get you into the general sound of the accent. Then you'd add nuance on your own. (The "Strine" one was fantastic.)
jimells
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Yes, they will be hung out to dry. The psychobabblers are about to find out first-hand what it means to be socially isolated.
The misplaced laptop excuse shouldn't cut it. As part of a clinical trial they need professional data management which will include offsite backup. I know that QMUL will have an IT department that can offer such services. Anything less should cause huge problems with the MRC in terms of not abiding by best practice.
Snow Leopard
Hibernating
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Having said that, it is very unlikely that the FOI request would have been made in the first place if all of the summary statistics as specified in the original protocol had been published.
Yes I thought you were joking but I worry that data might get lost so thought I would comment.
Who, Coyne? You can. He's on twitter, facebook, blog and email.
Yes. I should have been clearer. I meant I wish I could thank Coyne.
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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It's consistent with the extraordinary difficulties I have sometimes had with doctors and a hospital in getting copies of my own test results and medical records. The hospital kept referring me to their legal department whenever I asked!
I suspect that patients either did activity substitution where they reduced other things they were doing or didn't really follow the advice. However, the was someone in the latest MEA survey who said the deteriorated after GET in the PACE trial.
Of course Wessely claimed that there was a high level of compliance since they monitored sessions with therapists. But they did nothing to check what patients actually did