How to reduce folate in the body?

[hb8847]

I suspect I have an huge excess of folate in my body and I'm wondering if anyone knows how to reduce it, other than by avoiding high-folate foods and stopping folate supplements?

Bit of background:

I know from past stool tests I have SIBO.

I suspect given my reactions to Methylfolate (bad) and methly-B12 (good) that my SIBO might be producing excess Folate whilst simultaneously depleting my body's absorption of B12.

I understand that getting on top of SIBO is the long term solution to all this, and I am in the process of doing so, but the road is long. In the meantime is there anything anyone could suggest that could bring down the levels of folate in my system more urgently?

I ask because I have recently been taking a supplement containing 1000 B12 and 800 Folate. The supplement has definitely helped with my brain fog and food sensitivities (I suspect this is due to the B12) whilst also giving me symptoms of excess Folate and overmethylation (insomnia, depression, anxiety, inflammation). I'm also now bloating significantly whenever I eat vegetables or anything containing folate, which I wasn't doing prior to taking this supplement. Note, I have since stopped the supplement for over a month, but these symptoms have persisted.

At points I have tried to go without folate foods, and while this does reduce the bloating it seems to up inflammation in other areas and so I don't really consider it a long term fix. I also have other food sensitivites (probably due to the long term deficiency in B12) which rules out a lot of food groups low in folate, like grains & pasta. So really I'm looking for anything I can take, supplement-wise, that can reduce these symptoms.

For example, if I were to take methyl-B12 on its own it could it metabolise some of the excess folate and reduce these symptoms? I don't want to unwittingly further the overmethylation and worsen inflammation... To date I've just been waiting for it all to die down on their own accord, but it's taking a very long time.

Thanks in advance! Any advice very welcome.

Hugo

 

[hb8847]

Update in case anyone's interested:

The methyl-B12 doesn't seem to be calming things down much. Perhaps this shouldn't be a surprise.

I still feel like I've got lots of inflammation in general and food definitely makes it a lot worse. I can calm things down somewhat by doing a complete food fast for a couple of days but that's not really sustainable.

Vegetables are still making me bloated which makes me think I'm not helping anything by adding more folate to an already high burden. Presumably this is causing me to overmethylate thereby worsening my inflammation.

As before, other signs I'm overmethylating from vegetables include insomnia, anxiety, dizziness. It's difficult to tell what might be overmethylation and what is inflammation but I feel like it's probably both.

I'm going to try some chicken on its own tomorrow with no supplements, except maybe some electrolytes to correct for any deficiencies. I know chicken contains methionine which is likely to spur on more methylation but at least it contains no folate. It'll be interesting if I don't get any bloating - it'll show it's probably folate that's causing it and whether that's causing my inflammation.

Failing this I'll do another 48 hour fast.

I'll report back here in case anyone is ever going through something similar. Meantime I've a doctor's appt in about a week & I'll try and glean some more information from that.

Hugo.

 

[Nanni]

Thank you so much. I’ve been popping b12 like there a cup of coffee. I take care of my granddaughter two days a week and I have to be able to keep up. I had her yesterday and took more than usual. Today pain, inflammation and anxiety. So hard figuring out the balance. I’m also taking too much glutamine i think.

 

[xploit316]

Update in case anyone's interested:

The methyl-B12 doesn't seem to be calming things down much. Perhaps this shouldn't be a surprise.

I still feel like I've got lots of inflammation in general and food definitely makes it a lot worse. I can calm things down somewhat by doing a complete food fast for a couple of days but that's not really sustainable.

Vegetables are still making me bloated which makes me think I'm not helping anything by adding more folate to an already high burden. Presumably this is causing me to overmethylate thereby worsening my inflammation.

As before, other signs I'm overmethylating from vegetables include insomnia, anxiety, dizziness. It's difficult to tell what might be overmethylation and what is inflammation but I feel like it's probably both.

I'm going to try some chicken on its own tomorrow with no supplements, except maybe some electrolytes to correct for any deficiencies. I know chicken contains methionine which is likely to spur on more methylation but at least it contains no folate. It'll be interesting if I don't get any bloating - it'll show it's probably folate that's causing it and whether that's causing my inflammation.

Failing this I'll do another 48 hour fast.

I'll report back here in case anyone is ever going through something similar. Meantime I've a doctor's appt in about a week & I'll try and glean some more information from that.

Hugo.

Hi Hugo, your experiences mirrors mine when I supplemented with Jarrows Methyl B6/B9/B12 a year ago. Felt good a few days but after that the rage fits, depression, insomnia. anxiety, suicidal thoughts, bloating and weight gain have been a nightmare to this day. I seem to have conquered the insomnia but other problems still come and go, biggest being the weight gain. Has anything since your last post helped you get over the overmethylation (besides stopping all Methyl B supplements)? Thanks

 

[hb8847]

Hi Hugo, your experiences mirrors mine when I supplemented with Jarrows Methyl B6/B9/B12 a year ago. Felt good a few days but after that the rage fits, depression, insomnia. anxiety, suicidal thoughts, bloating and weight gain have been a nightmare to this day. I seem to have conquered the insomnia but other problems still come and go, biggest being the weight gain. Has anything since your last post helped you get over the overmethylation (besides stopping all Methyl B supplements)? Thanks

Hi xploit,

I have had some success since this post.

A resource Ive found very useful has been Ben Lynch's website, specifically the pages relating to "preventing methylfolate symptoms" (there should be two). I highly recommend you check them out as they give a lot of detailed info.

Your symptoms sound to me like classic overmethylation. If you've stopped all the B12/B9 supplements it's possible the food you're eating is continuing to fire up the methylation process (which is probably a good thing considering you were previously undermethylated) but in your case it's going too far and you're experiencing side effects from a surplus of SAMe (I think - again check the Lynch site).

One quick solution I've found to take the edge off is Niacin (vitamin B3). This metabolises SAMe and so reduces symptoms. The recommendation here is to take maybe 50-100mg each hour because if you take too much it might use up more than just the excess and flip you over into undermethylation again.

Another consideration with this is the type of Niacin you use - you can get Niacinamide and Nicotinic acid. They both work in similar ways in my experience, except the latter can cause horrendous flushing. I take Niacinamide 100mg whenever I feel the early stages of anxiety come on and it generally seems to work (sometimes I'll maybe take up to 6-700mg in a day if I'm particularly overmethylated.) A benefit here is that if it works it'll confirm to you for sure what is causing your symptoms in case it was in any doubt.

For me though the game changer were his "Optimal Start" capsules. These contain a selection of vitamins, minerals, and particularly high doses of the non-methylated B vitamins such as B1, B2, and B6 (but no B9 or B12). He recommends everyone should start by priming their body with this prior to starting the B12 and B9, as the latter two are such strong supplements it can cause significant side effects if your body is suffering a deficit of other cofactors. Particularly he mentions neurological symptoms (something about a "block" in your neurochemistry) which is exactly what I experienced.

For me it was too late to do exactly as he'd suggested as I'd already been taking a lot of B12 asked B9 but I've since been taking the Optimal Start mixture pretty much on their own (with food) and have gotten considerably better over the past two months. The bloating has gone entirely, I don't get brain fog. It feels as if the methylation has "somewhere to go", if that makes sense. All the SAMe I'm creating if going towards my body's healing, rather than giving me negative side effects.

I still get symptoms of overmethylation on occasion (like anxiety) but these are significantly less frequent than before and a small amount of Niacinamide quickly cuts that off at the source.

At the moment I'm on two of his Optimal Start capsules per day as I'm finding that's the right balance to enable me to heal but without pushing my recovery too far (too much and I get very achey and physically fatigued, which again I suspect is a sign of the immune system being fired up again after so long dormant).

Going forward I plan to keep going with the Optimal Start until I no longer feel they are causing me to overmethylate, and then gradually begin his more general protocol on taking B12 and then B9, but I can't imagine that'll be particularly soon.

A few other things. I also take electrolytes when I feel symptoms of thirst or muscle spasms - methylation uses up a lot of potassium and magnesium in the process of rebuilding cells, and when these levels are low it can cause symptoms as they are essential nutrients for keeping blood water levels in balance. Too low and you can start peeing a lot, get very thirsty, headaches and muscle spasms. Again Lynch has his own formula but I tend to just use an online electrolyte formula. Careful not to use too high a dose as you want to be careful to keep these levels within a particular bound - maybe contact the company you purchase from if so.

I also occasionally supplement with Choline, Creatine, Ribose, and SOD as per Lynch's site. Many of these I find cause me to overmethylate though so again approach with caution.

As for foods, many of these can also push you into overmethylation. Green leafy veg contains very high levels of B9 and I sometimes have to cut down a bit. Also anything with methionine (so meat, nuts). Lots of foods can be problematic here which was part of the problem I was having before, and my main solution has not been about removing them but about adding the cofactors I needed to not give me side effects.

Finally a note about Optimal Start. I am not a shill for any companies and some of these tablets can be quite overpriced. I'm using them right now out of convenience but if it looks like I'll be taking them long term I'm going to start just taking the appropriate doses of B1, B2 and everything else it contains, as these can often be bought much cheaper separately.

Anyway, good luck and hopefully the site helps you as much as it did me.

Hugo

 

[xploit316]

Hi xploit,

I have had some success since this post.

A resource Ive found very useful has been Ben Lynch's website, specifically the pages relating to "preventing methylfolate symptoms" (there should be two). I highly recommend you check them out as they give a lot of detailed info.

Your symptoms sound to me like classic overmethylation. If you've stopped all the B12/B9 supplements it's possible the food you're eating is continuing to fire up the methylation process (which is probably a good thing considering you were previously undermethylated) but in your case it's going too far and you're experiencing side effects from a surplus of SAMe (I think - again check the Lynch site).

One quick solution I've found to take the edge off is Niacin (vitamin B3). This metabolises SAMe and so reduces symptoms. The recommendation here is to take maybe 50-100mg each hour because if you take too much it might use up more than just the excess and flip you over into undermethylation again.

Another consideration with this is the type of Niacin you use - you can get Niacinamide and Nicotinic acid. They both work in similar ways in my experience, except the latter can cause horrendous flushing. I take Niacinamide 100mg whenever I feel the early stages of anxiety come on and it generally seems to work (sometimes I'll maybe take up to 6-700mg in a day if I'm particularly overmethylated.) A benefit here is that if it works it'll confirm to you for sure what is causing your symptoms in case it was in any doubt.

For me though the game changer were his "Optimal Start" capsules. These contain a selection of vitamins, minerals, and particularly high doses of the non-methylated B vitamins such as B1, B2, and B6 (but no B9 or B12). He recommends everyone should start by priming their body with this prior to starting the B12 and B9, as the latter two are such strong supplements it can cause significant side effects if your body is suffering a deficit of other cofactors. Particularly he mentions neurological symptoms (something about a "block" in your neurochemistry) which is exactly what I experienced.

For me it was too late to do exactly as he'd suggested as I'd already been taking a lot of B12 asked B9 but I've since been taking the Optimal Start mixture pretty much on their own (with food) and have gotten considerably better over the past two months. The bloating has gone entirely, I don't get brain fog. It feels as if the methylation has "somewhere to go", if that makes sense. All the SAMe I'm creating if going towards my body's healing, rather than giving me negative side effects.

I still get symptoms of overmethylation on occasion (like anxiety) but these are significantly less frequent than before and a small amount of Niacinamide quickly cuts that off at the source.

At the moment I'm on two of his Optimal Start capsules per day as I'm finding that's the right balance to enable me to heal but without pushing my recovery too far (too much and I get very achey and physically fatigued, which again I suspect is a sign of the immune system being fired up again after so long dormant).

Going forward I plan to keep going with the Optimal Start until I no longer feel they are causing me to overmethylate, and then gradually begin his more general protocol on taking B12 and then B9, but I can't imagine that'll be particularly soon.

A few other things. I also take electrolytes when I feel symptoms of thirst or muscle spasms - methylation uses up a lot of potassium and magnesium in the process of rebuilding cells, and when these levels are low it can cause symptoms as they are essential nutrients for keeping blood water levels in balance. Too low and you can start peeing a lot, get very thirsty, headaches and muscle spasms. Again Lynch has his own formula but I tend to just use an online electrolyte formula. Careful not to use too high a dose as you want to be careful to keep these levels within a particular bound - maybe contact the company you purchase from if so.

I also occasionally supplement with Choline, Creatine, Ribose, and SOD as per Lynch's site. Many of these I find cause me to overmethylate though so again approach with caution.

As for foods, many of these can also push you into overmethylation. Green leafy veg contains very high levels of B9 and I sometimes have to cut down a bit. Also anything with methionine (so meat, nuts). Lots of foods can be problematic here which was part of the problem I was having before, and my main solution has not been about removing them but about adding the cofactors I needed to not give me side effects.

Finally a note about Optimal Start. I am not a shill for any companies and some of these tablets can be quite overpriced. I'm using them right now out of convenience but if it looks like I'll be taking them long term I'm going to start just taking the appropriate doses of B1, B2 and everything else it contains, as these can often be bought much cheaper separately.

Anyway, good luck and hopefully the site helps you as much as it did me.

Hugo

Thanks Hugo. Im just afraid to supplement any B vitamins due to my horrible experience with them. Im planning on introducing Decaf Espresso coffee since its a good source of Niacin and see if the overmethylation symptoms die down. I have noticed my rage symptoms increase at night after 8pm close to dinnertime and its at its calmest around 11pm. I read through your historical posts and see you have SIBO like myself. Goodluck to you with the antibiotics and keep us updated please.

 

[gbells]

Reducing folic acid is easy to do.

1. Stop all vitamins containing folic acid.
2. Avoid leafy green vegetables.

It's a water soluble essential vitamin so you'll burn up your stores in a few days.

 

[hb8847]

Thanks Hugo. Im just afraid to supplement any B vitamins due to my horrible experience with them. Im planning on introducing Decaf Espresso coffee since its a good source of Niacin and see if the overmethylation symptoms die down. I have noticed my rage symptoms increase at night after 8pm close to dinnertime and its at its calmest around 11pm. I read through your historical posts and see you have SIBO like myself. Goodluck to you with the antibiotics and keep us updated please.

Hi xploit,

I completely understand the concern over B vitamins.

One thing I've learnt though is that part of the problem about the heavy reactions to certain B vitamins is that the B vitamin class are intended to be consumed as a whole - they are all found in the same sorts of foods as each other in nature and thus you would never have experienced a high dose of one without the other before the invention of supplements.

And part of the reason for the heavy reaction to things like B9 is because they're often being taken without the other B vitamins needed to balance them out.

Your idea regarding the natural Niacin (B3) is a good one, although from the sounds of your rage symptoms I just worry you won't be getting enough. My overmethylating is pretty manageable at the moment and I've already had to have 100mg Niacin today - you just won't find that in the natural world.

My suggestion would be to read up exactly why overmethylating causes these symptoms of rage and anxiety. (The Ben Lynch site is a good resource, plus wikipedia, google, etc). My recollection is that its about an excess of SAMe which has some sort of effect on the neurotransmitters in your brain. Niacin then uses up that excess and so acts as a perfect counterbalance to the B9 and B12. If you're anything like me this should provide you with a certain level of confidence about giving the supplement a go. Also have a look at some of the accounts of people who've tried the Niacin - either here or on the Lynch site (or google 'Niacin anxiety').

If you're worried about overmethylating though I would be more cautious about the other B vitamins (particularly B2 and B6). These are other cofactors which can promote methylation.

Best of luck and hope your situation improves.

 

[xploit316]

Completely agree Hugo. Main mistake was taking individual B vitamins. I will give fasting a "One-off" go next month too when I will have some time off, hope that will reset my system. Thanks again for your help. Will check your posts regularly and hope your issues get resolved very soon too.

 

[hb8847]

Completely agree Hugo. Main mistake was taking individual B vitamins. I will give fasting a "One-off" go next month too when I will have some time off, hope that will reset my system. Thanks again for your help. Will check your posts regularly and hope your issues get resolved very soon too.

Many thanks xploit.

As for fasting, I have given this a go on occasion (up to 3 days) and while it does let symptoms recede a bit the overmethylation tends to start up again as soon as I eat. Just letting you know so you don't get disheartened it it fails to work, hopefully it does though.

Best of luck.