How do I know if my fatigue is psychosomatic or physical?

[Rufous McKinney]

Taking a walk can also deplete you further with anxiety,

The anxiety while walking thing- I experienced one day as i simply went down the block with my daughter and grandaughter. So I was distracted, and entertained. and then I looked up and sort of realized I'd gone a bit far..and I literally did rather Panic. EGAD. What was I thinking?

then my daughter simply suggests we circle around the block to return. More panic.

So thats how unfun the 60 day crash from my personal GETS experiment was. The thought that might happen again is- rather scary.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

In the meantime, I'll keep exercising and doing what I can to stay mobile. It means a lot to me, @Rufous, and I know it means a lot to you also. Yours, L.

yeah despite all the feedback- must somehow fight back. Even if its small, or localized.

Try to keep flexible. Try to do a bit more.

I think we don't give up readily. Its that shred of hope we kindle. The tiny flame.

 

[Wishful]

In ME/CFS the body simply cannot produce enough energy to meet demands.

I have to argue against that hypothesis. My ME doesn't limit my body's available energy. I might feel lethargic, but I can manage to do multi-hour hikes or bike rides or dig soil for hours; there was never any reduction of available energy from my pre-ME state. As far as I can tell, my ME does not involve reduced energy supply; it involves impaired neural functions.

I think that the rapid (takes minutes) switching of state between full ME symptoms and feeling bouncy with energy in a temporary remission fits a neurological change much better than a full-body change in ATP levels. Extra supporting evidence: the treatments that change my 'state of feeling energetic or lethargic' worked better sublingually, rather than through the digestive system. If ME's dysfunction was in the muscles, the opposite should be true.

 

[Booble]

I have to argue against that hypothesis. My ME doesn't limit my body's available energy. I might feel lethargic, but I can manage to do multi-hour hikes or bike rides or dig soil for hours; there was never any reduction of available energy from my pre-ME state. As far as I can tell, my ME does not involve reduced energy supply; it involves impaired neural functions.

I think that the rapid (takes minutes) switching of state between full ME symptoms and feeling bouncy with energy in a temporary remission fits a neurological change much better than a full-body change in ATP levels. Extra supporting evidence: the treatments that change my 'state of feeling energetic or lethargic' worked better sublingually, rather than through the digestive system. If ME's dysfunction was in the muscles, the opposite should be true.

Goes to show you that there are many different manifestations of this.
And/or that it might be best to separate different types of what is now all lumped together as CFS/ME.

 

[Booble]

The anxiety while walking thing- I experienced one day as i simply went down the block with my daughter and grandaughter. So I was distracted, and entertained. and then I looked up and sort of realized I'd gone a bit far..and I literally did rather Panic. EGAD. What was I thinking?

then my daughter simply suggests we circle around the block to return. More panic.

So thats how unfun the 60 day crash from my personal GETS experiment was. The thought that might happen again is- rather scary.

Ugh!
I have a similar story. My father was very ill and on death's door and both my brother and I were in town to see him. My brother and I went for a walk and as we rounded the corner I realized I was getting hot and somehow it triggered panic that something bad was happening in my body and then, well, you know the drill as that escalates. I was already in a prolonged anxiety state because of my Dad's illness but that walking in the hot sun created physical sensations that my anxious body misunderstood and made everything worse.

 

[wabi-sabi]

As far as I can tell, my ME does not involve reduced energy supply; it involves impaired neural functions.

Isn't it odd the range of symptoms we have. I certainly have impaired neural functions, but I lack physical energy as well. When I use more physical energy it impairs my neural functions.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Isn't it odd the range of symptoms we have. I certainly have impaired neural functions, but I lack physical energy as well. When I use more physical energy it impairs my neural functions.

We are a collection of the Weirdest Symptoms...and we vary and there are sub-types and, well we shall see.

So thats definately the case here.. my using physical energy leads to more neural issues.

 

[Booble]

Ditto to the folks that using physical energy causes neural. If the definition is more like Wishful's definition than I would take myself out of the category of CFS/ME. Multi-hour bike rides or digging in the soil for hours would be a recipe for disaster later, regardless of if I was in good physical conditioning shape.

 

[wabi-sabi]

I must say I had much more physical energy when I was healthier. My condition has been progressive and at first I did have the energy to go on walks, even if it caused pain. Now I just don't anymore.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

If the definition is more like Wishful's definition than I would take myself out of the category of CFS/ME.

I say we fundraise to send Wishful to Harvard so we can specifically figure out HIS version!

 

[wabi-sabi]

I say we fundraise to send Wishful to Harvard so we can specifically figure out HIS version!

I want to go too!

 

[Booble]

I want to go too!

We'll send you too, Wabi!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

We'll send you too, Wabi!

Yeah, well I'll come along for the afterparty.

But don't ask me to do a two day bicycle test!

 

[Booble]

Yeah, well I'll come along for the afterparty.

But don't ask me to do a two day bicycle test!

Which reminds me, flying in planes started giving me deep, deep jetlag to the point of me feeling like when I go to sleep I'm probably not going to wake up in the morning. I'm going to say lack of oxygen and altitude. If I sit in the first aisle where some of the extra oxygen that they have for the captains it's a little better.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

flying in planes

I don't seem to travel well. And now with this, well good thing I did a bit in the past. And enjoy vicarious living.

Wire me the results! Send a telegram.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Which reminds me, flying in planes started giving me deep, deep jetlag to the point of me feeling like when I go to sleep

Came back from a trip with friends to Hawaii (they insisted I come, bought my ticket as I wouldn't do it the first time.)

Came back on the red eye, and never slept.

Got home and by 10 am, decided I was having a coronary. Drove down hill having this coronary, to my doctors office, handing myself over direly.

Nothing happened there. Maybe you need gatoraid they suggested.

So that was a severe panic attack- that ensued from the not sleeping. And I was sort of ME functional back then, not any longer.

 

[DLTooley]

Came back from a trip with friends to Hawaii (they insisted I come, bought my ticket as I wouldn't do it the first time.)

Came back on the red eye, and never slept.

Got home and by 10 am, decided I was having a coronary. Drove down hill having this coronary, to my doctors office, handing myself over direly.

Nothing happened there. Maybe you need gatoraid they suggested.

So that was a severe panic attack- that ensued from the not sleeping. And I was sort of ME functional back then, not any longer.

How is your sleep now, without an airplane?

 

[Booble]

The topic of anxiety vs CFS/ME is a tough one.

Anxiety causes CFS/ME like symptoms.
CFS/ME symptoms causes anxiety.

Very chicken and eggie for some people til you figure out which bucket you are in.

I went for years thinking it was anxiety caused and yet knowing that the anxiety was because my body was not behaving like everyone else's. It's scary when you think you might not make it through a lunch with a friend because you might faint while waiting in line, etc. So the two can intertwine.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

How is your sleep now, without an airplane?

My sleep pattern altered at menopause, and work was profoundly stressful (lawyers). Not sleeping started.

Traveling- NEVER go to sleep starts up. This, for me, is a nightmare. I will literally unravel. I could to give a public talk, because I'd never sleep night before.

Many things had to change to get thru all that. Versions were 1) never go to sleep; 2) take a long time to fall asleep, wide awake at 2 am; 3) wake up every 10 minutes the night before a meeting.

Somewhere in all this, my Xanax habit started, required to actually sleep before any meeting the next day.

I've terminated my Xanax thing now.

So I sleep better now. Most of that stress is now gone. But its unrefreshing. I wake up, and I'm so very still tired.

Repairs aren't happening in the brain properly during this sleep cycle, I suspect. The brain being washed of toxins, for instance.

 

[Wishful]

I say we fundraise to send Wishful to Harvard so we can specifically figure out HIS version!

Let's start small, and just send a blood sample. The main problem I see is finding someone who actually wants to study my ME. I think studying unusual cases is more likely to provide useful insight than yet another study of a large group of 'normal' ME cases. Probably harder to get funding for.