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High Vitamin C reduce Glutathione?

SJB944

Senior Member
Messages
178
Rich postulated that taking high doses of Vitamin C could reduce Glutathione in the body? Has anyone any experience with this, or been able to verify from other sources?
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
Rich postulated that taking high doses of Vitamin C could reduce Glutathione in the body? Has anyone any experience with this, or been able to verify from other sources?


I'll quote Rich:

The idea is that the lower dosages supply antioxidant support without placing too large a demand on glutathione, which is depleted in many cases of CFS, mid-range dosages place a demand on glutathione for recycling vitamin C (according to Dr. Cheney, and I think he's right), and bowel tolerance dosages are able
to raise the vitamin C concentrations sufficiently that vitamin C recycles glutathione, rather than glutathione recycling vitamin C, as is normal.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
So are bowel tolerance doses good?


I guess it depends on what your goal is. In this case, he was saying that bowel tolerance doses would be increasing glutathione by "recycling" it. For Rich, I think that would mean "good!"

Sushi
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
I guess it depends on what your goal is. In this case, he was saying that bowel tolerance doses would be increasing glutathione by "recycling" it. For Rich, I think that would mean "good!"

Sushi


I had read that high doses of Vit C were good for adrenal fatigue but when I read the above I didn't want it depleting glutathione.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
Sasha

Looks like it would be the 'mid-range' doses of Vit C that could deplete glutathione. When we asked Rich about this he said (this is from memory, so there is a 'duh' factor!) that mid-range was say, 3000--6000 mgs.

Sushi
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Sasha

Looks like it would be the 'mid-range' doses of Vit C that could deplete glutathione. When we asked Rich about this he said (this is from memory, so there is a 'duh' factor!) that mid-range was say, 3000--6000 mgs.

Sushi


Thanks. I once titrated up to 45g/day. :eek:

Wonder how high I'll get this time...
 

SJB944

Senior Member
Messages
178
Wow 45g a day is a massive amount. The question is at what point does Vitamin C start to recycle and Glutathione is this really related to bowel tolerance -- 3000-6000mgs could be the tolerance level for some people?

Again hard to know what to do with this information (postulation). If the level of vitamin c we are taking is placing too much of a demand on glutathione, what are the symptoms?

So lower would be safer, to some extent, but then there are lots of proponents out there hailing the benefits of large dosages of Vitamin C. Comes down to trial and error in the end.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Wow 45g a day is a massive amount. The question is at what point does Vitamin C start to recycle and Glutathione is this really related to bowel tolerance -- 3000-6000mgs could be the tolerance level for some people?

Again hard to know what to do with this information (postulation). If the level of vitamin c we are taking is placing too much of a demand on glutathione, what are the symptoms?

So lower would be safer, to some extent, but then there are lots of proponents out there hailing the benefits of large dosages of Vitamin C. Comes down to trial and error in the end.


I took that mega-mega-dose during my first illness, during which I was almost completely confined to bed. Like pretty much everything I tried, it had no effect one way or another. Some years later I had a remission, lasting several years, and now I've been housebound for several years. I suspect that whatever I try, it will be hard to discern any immediate effect - hard to know how long to give it as a test.
 

knackers323

Senior Member
Messages
1,625
Hi
I took that mega-mega-dose during my first illness, during which I was almost completely confined to bed. Like pretty much everything I tried, it had no effect one way or another. Some years later I had a remission, lasting several years, and now I've been housebound for several years. I suspect that whatever I try, it will be hard to discern any immediate effect - hard to know how long to give it as a test.

Hi Sasha, what do you put your remission down to?
 

stridor

Senior Member
Messages
873
Location
Powassan, Ontario
As some of you know Vitamin C has 2 isomers. Only the l-ascorbic is of any use d-ascorbic that gets absorbed has to be excreted. If someone finds that they have a bowel tolerance of 4 gms - they can effectively double effective dose just by switching to pharmaceutical grade l-ascorbic.
Does anyone here make their own liposomal Vitamin C? Anyone interested, I can write out the instructions. With this 1 gm = something like 20 gms IV. Since it is 93% absorbed there are no issues with bowel tolerance. And it's dirt cheap.
 

stridor

Senior Member
Messages
873
Location
Powassan, Ontario
There are no effects from LVC. No bowel upset. Because it is taken on an empty stomach, the odd person gets stomach acidity but this can be dealt with be adding some baking soda to the finished product. Never had that. You'll find other recipes on line some also work and others not as well.

Liposomal Vitamin C
Buy a jewelry cleaner through amazon or ebay = $30 or so
NOW non-GMO lecithin or equivalent
L-ascorbic acid powder like this: http://www.iherb.com/NutriBiotic-Ascorbic-Acid-Crystalline-Powder-2-2-lbs-1-kg/30240
A blender and a straw and 2 pint mason jars or equivalent

1 tbs of soy lecithin and 1 cup of water into mason jar shake or stir a bit and let sit for 8 hours or in fridge overnight.
1 tbs l-ascorbic acid and 1 cup of water into mason jar shake or stir and sit for same amount of time
Then blend soy mixture for about 30 seconds - I have a great blender so consider a minute if uncertain.
Use Vit C mixture to swish out the lecithin jar and add to blender.
Blend for another 30 seconds or so then pour into jewelry cleaner.
Occilate for 18 minutes or more. Stir briefly every 2-3 min with the straw. The foam on top of the mixture should be pretty much gone - there may be a bit left.
That's it. Keep in the fridge and measure with a shot glass. It isn't an exact science but you end up with 15 gms of C in 16 ounces.
LVC is magic. First it is almost all absorbed. It is all the "l" form and therefore useful. Having a fatty coating it crosses into cells easily and because of the fatty coating part of it does not get excreted before it even makes it to a cell. This is why 1 gm of this stuff is equal to I forget...something like 20 gms IV. If someone wants to track that down it came from one of Dr Levy's you tube vidoeos.
Now...if you get lumps or too much settling:
You didn't let the lecithin soak enough or didn't blend it enough
Or you used a buffered C product with calcium or something like that instead of pure pharmaceutical grade C
You left your straw sitting in the mixture for the material to coalesce around. Take the straw out.
You stirred too much...let the machine do the work.
It can also be made with sunflower lecithin for those with sensitivities to soy.
Let me know if you need more help. brad
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
Is Rich's theory confirmed? I take 3-5g before bed for sleep, which would be 'mid-range', according to him ..
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
My doctor, who knows what he's doing, has me on 4g a day, in divided doses, along with a comprehensive methylation protocol to produce glutathione.

Midrange should be fine, as long as you can tolerate it.
 
Messages
366
It is confirmed that glutathione recycles vitamin C (1, 2). So I wouldn't take huge megadoses, because I think that might deplete reduced glutathione. I've read about people taking more than 10g, even more than once a day.

With the doses you take, I'd decide based on how much you feel the vitamin C helps you.
 

stridor

Senior Member
Messages
873
Location
Powassan, Ontario
That sounds like a reasonable dose. The great apes take around that amount every day. We don't have a time machine and don't know how much Vit C were had access to when our physiology developed. Africa was more tropial though with lusher vegetation and fruit of various types.