High dose vitamin B1 (thiamine)

[Asklipia]

Another observation on high Thiamine supplementation :
In a similar way that Thiamine helps with folate utilisation (as noted by Lonsdale for folate and B12), we both noticed that Thiamine helps with B6.
We had taken no B6 in the last week, but noticed more and more dreams, for us a lack of dreams is a sign of a lack of B6.

 

[JasonUT]

@Asklipia

Interesting comment on B6 and dreams. I too have been dreaming a lot more. Sometimes good dreams sometimes too many dreams. Dream recall seems better too. Overall, my brain seems much more functional. I am now at 300 mg Lipothiamine in divided doses. I also continue to experiment with B3. The downside is that flu-like symptoms have increased considerably in the last 2 weeks. Healing paradox?

 

[Asklipia]

@JasonUT!
Please note that if you have a dental procedure or any surgery coming, you should stop the thiamine I think a good week beforehand. High dose thiamine makes the pain worse and lasting. This is the only drawback we saw to it for the moment.
Since Monday, even more and more dreams of all kinds! Going to bed is like going to the cinema! To think I had been deprived of this for more than 20 years! Amazing!
MY LIFE IS BACK

 

[pattismith]

I do well with high thiamine, and my blood lactates improved a lot,
but eyelid twitching is showing up at the same time, although I already take magnésium, calcium and D vitamine...

My muscles are much more tense than before the treatment, could it be a kind of refeeding syndrom?

 

[raghav]

I started with 200mg *3 and went upto 500 * 3 (1500mg) in a week's time. I started getting blood in stools. So stopped it. But I got very good energy surge. Disappointed that I got blood in stools and had to stop it. Any suggestions as to what could be the reason.Is there any other supplement to add to avoid the blood in stools and start thiamine again ?

 

[JasonUT]

@raghav

I have read about a few others that have some stomach and digestive discomfort with high dose Thiamine HCl. I don't know if this goes away with time. Maybe experiment with different forms of B1? Some of us are having positive results with fat soluble forms such as Lipothiamine, Allithiamine, Fursultiamine, benfotiamine, etc.

 

[Asklipia]

Vague stomach discomfort for DH in the first two weeks of lipophilic thiamines, after that it was as though it had never happened.

 

[pattismith]

@raghav , I am fine with Benfotiamine 300 x 3

 

[raghav]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. @pattismith Benfotiamine increases my heart rate even at 100 mg. I will try some other form.

 

[raghav]

@pattismith Which brand Benfotiamine are you using ?

 

[pattismith]

@pattismith Which brand Benfotiamine are you using ?

https://www.vitacost.com/doctors-best-benfotiamine-300-with-benfopure

 

[Asklipia]

@raghav You seem to have started with very high doses. Thiamine in the beginning will detox heavy metals, I had mercury patches on the cheeks with even 33 mg fursultiamine. It is well worth it starting slow and increasing slowly. At all stages there is improvement and that is the important thing. We still see improvements after more than a year and we went from 33 mg fursultiamine to about 500 mg at present (all lipophilic thiamines combined). Until I stop seeing improvements I am not pushing further the dosage. It is true that I feel well and that there is no life or death problem for the moment.
Take care
Be well!

 

[raghav]

Thanks @pattismith and @Asklipia I will titrate slowly. Thanks for the advice.

 

[JasonUT]

Hello All,

I continue to have a positive response to Lipothiamine and now I am experimenting with Benfotiamine. However, it isn't all roses. I still have many symptoms consistent with POTS and dysautonomia. Controlling low blood pressure seems to be a popular treatment strategy among the dysautonomia crowd. My BP is consistently 100/60. When I was healthy it was 115/75. As a result, I started to dive into low blood pressure and found some interesting points I wanted to share and get a discussion going.

Rambling thoughts:

1. Thiamine is needed for Acetylcholine production [Source].
2. Acetylcholine appears to be critical to proper autonomic Nervous system (ANS) function [Source, Source].
3. Dr. Lonsdale discusses Thiamine, dysautonomia, and ANS in length in his articles and books. He believes that B1 and associated enzyme deficiency may be at the root of many dysautonomia patients and dysfunctional ANS.
4. The dysautonomia crowd like to experiment with Licorice Root supplementation as a means to raise blood pressure [Source]. Some consider it a natural alternative to Florinef.
5. Licorce Root appears to be a Acetylcholinesterase Inhibitor [Source].
6. Acetylcholinesterase appears to be an enzyme responsible for the breakdown of acetylcholine [Source].

Does this mean high dose B1 supplementation is helping Acetylcholine production while Licorce Root may be slowing down the breakdown of Acetylcholine? Will both lead to improved ANS function? Will this slow the candle from burning at both ends?

Here is an article that summarizes many of the benefits of Licorice Root.

 

[Asklipia]

We too continue to have positive response to high dose thiamine.
Latest news : I have lost a small wart on my face which would not go away never mind what I tried. Had it for seven years.
Gone!
Which means that it takes many months before we reap full benefits.
@JasonUT

 

[Gondwanaland]

Carnosine/Carcinine also inhibit Acetylcholinesterase.

 

[sb4]

@JasonUT If we need to produce acetylcholine then we will need:
1. Enough choline in our body. Gut bacteria eat this so this could be a problem for some even if you intake enough. Transdermal could get round this.
2. Enough Acetyl CoA. This you need B1 + B3 + B5 OR B2 + B3 + B8, Mg, B6?

3. The enzyme that changes acetyl CoA + choline -> acetylcholine to be working well.
4. The signal for acetylcholine to be released.
5. The receptors to pick it up.

I feel something is definetly going wrong in me in this process as I am definetly in sympathetic mode all the time however I am not sure where...

 

[JasonUT]

@sb4

Thanks for the response. I know I am functionally deficient in B1 and B3. Borderline deficient in B6. I am supplementing with 1 TBSP Lecithin everyday. I hope that this is an acceptable source of choline.

Per testing, I have good nutrient status of B2, B5, B8, Mg, and Choline.

It appears all my pathways to acetyl-CoA have some roadblock.

1. Protein - B6, B1, N
2. Carbs - B1, N
3. Fat - B1, N

 

[JasonUT]

Carnosine/Carcinine also inhibit Acetylcholinesterase.

It looks like I may need to dive into the Carnosine/Carcinine thread. It's a long and technical thread which will take some time to digest.

 

[Kathevans]

@JasonUT I have definitely been having stomach issues with fairly low doses of Allithiamin of about 50 mg/ day. And interestingly, in the past I have always found licorice as DGL to be I credibly helpful for all sorts of stomach issues.

On the positive side, heart irregularities have all but stopped, the red blotches on my face, which are certainly detox and possibly from mercury, have faded, and the nght sweats that the 50mg initially caused have waned. Now if my stomach would settle!

I definitely have to redo the NutrEval test to see where I have settled functionally...