High-Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

[jmd82]

It turns out I've already been taking 200mcg daily of... I'm not quite sure which form? As part of the Life Extension one per day multi. It's listed as:
Selenium [as selenium selenite, SelenoExcell high selenium yeast, Se-methyl L-selenocysteine]
If anything I've got somewhat worse during the several months I've been taking it.

Anyway, I'm going to try adding an additional 200mcg of Se-methyl L-selenocysteine and see how that goes.

400mg seems like the sweet spot from reading hips postings.

 

[Hip]

im so devastated im back where i started for the most part. It literally changed my life for the short few months.

I had the same experience twice: two different medications put me into near remission, and at the time I really believed I had found my personal cure to ME/CFS. One was the drug Wellbutrin, and the other was Prof Gottfries's Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine ME/CFS treatment. But on both occasions, the remissions mysteriously vanished, even though I continued to take these treatments.

You will also find this remission-relapse has happened to a lot of ME/CFS patients who tried Abilify: many made large improvements on Abilify, but these improvements mysteriously vanished a month or two later (although some continue to get benefit). These patients spent a lot of time investigating why they relapsed, but never found any answers.

It's terribly frustrating when this happens. But we don't know the underlying cause of ME/CFS, so it's hard to understand what is going on in these mysterious short-term improvements and relapses.

The only thing we can do is to keep trying different things. This post lists lots of remissions and improvements attained by various drugs and supplements, and that may offer some encouragement/ideas.



Were you exercising or exerting yourself a lot during your period of improvement, by the way? Heavy exercise can often cause a relapse.

 

[jmd82]

I had the same experience twice: two different medications put me into near remission, and at the time I really believed I had found my personal cure to ME/CFS. One was the drug Wellbutrin, and the other was Prof Gottfries's Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine ME/CFS treatment. But on both occasions, the remissions mysteriously vanished, even though I continued to take these treatments.

You will also find this remission-relapse has happened to a lot of ME/CFS patients who tried Abilify: many made large improvements on Abilify, but these improvements mysteriously vanished a month or two later (although some continue to get benefit). These patients spent a lot of time investigating why they relapsed, but never found any answers.

It's terribly frustrating when this happens. But we don't know the underlying cause of ME/CFS, so it's hard to understand what is going on in these mysterious short-term improvements and relapses.

The only thing we can do is to keep trying different things. This post lists lots of remissions and improvements attained by various drugs and supplements, and that may offer some encouragement/ideas.



Were you exercising or exerting yourself a lot during your period of improvement, by the way? Heavy exercise can often cause a relapse.

Unfortunately my job is very strenuous and there is no way i can get around that. I do try and go to the gym as well in the evenings after an afternoon nap, 3 to 4 days a week because i need it for my mental well being.

 

[hapl808]

Unfortunately my job is very strenuous and there is no way i can get around that. I do try and go to the gym as well in the evenings after an afternoon nap, 3 to 4 days a week because i need it for my mental well being.

Were you able to do your job and the gym before the selenium? I don't remember exactly where you started off, but sounds like you maybe went from mild to almost total remission, then slid back to mild? Are you better off from where you started, or back to the same?

Has anyone in the more moderate to severe range found big improvements on selenium? Can't remember this whole thread. I tried brazil nuts and briefly tried medium dose selenium (I think it was 100mg or 200mg - have to check), but didn't really notice anything.

 

[Hip]

Has anyone in the more moderate to severe range found big improvements on selenium?

I was moderate bordering on severe when I discovered selenium, and it took me up to moderate bordering on mild.

 

[hapl808]

I have a yeast-free selenium supplement here, but I think I only tried it briefly so maybe I'll have to revisit. I'm around the same - moderate to severe (housebound and unable to stand on my own, but usually not completely bedbound).

 

[jmd82]

Were you able to do your job and the gym before the selenium? I don't remember exactly where you started off, but sounds like you maybe went from mild to almost total remission, then slid back to mild? Are you better off from where you started, or back to the same?

Has anyone in the more moderate to severe range found big improvements on selenium? Can't remember this whole thread. I tried brazil nuts and briefly tried medium dose selenium (I think it was 100mg or 200mg - have to check), but didn't really notice anything.

yes i was able to do both but naps were required. there was no way i would be able to go from work to the gym without a nap. As to where iam now from where i was... i think im pretty much back to where i was with slight improvement. I still need to take nuvigil in the mornings and overdose on caffiene throughout the day to make it through the day. I have another sleep study coming up in 2 weeks where i have to come off everything 2 weeks brefore so im not looking forward to this. No matter how many times i try and explain to the doctor it has nothing to do with my sleep they dont want to listen and insist i take more sleep studies. The problem is if i dont do the sleep study they wont continue to fill my nuvigil script so im kind of stuck.

 

[godlovesatrier]

So covid19 also promotes quinolic acid levels in the brain:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2778090

So Buhner's point about selenium being somewhat CNS protective and neuroprotective (on page 3 of this thread) could mean it's a protectorant against some of the potential grey matter loss in the brain (which I am sure I saw a study in the Washington post that showed covid decreased grey matter volume post infection).

 

[godlovesatrier]

So I decided to try high dose selenium again yesterday but this time on an empty stomach.

Took 300mcg as I know 400 is too much for me anyway. I was crashing into a 2 day crash at the time. After 45 minutes the joint pain and fatigue from the crash had stopped and I felt very alert. I was very surprised.
In the morning I probably had 25% of the level of a normal 2 day crash. So not a lot to be honest.

But it's 6.30 now and apart from feeling very tired which I assume is basically the crash (won't know for a day or two) I feel ok. I took 200mcg thismorning on an empty stomach with lipo glutathione. Same thing 45 minutes to kick in.

So long story short I didn't realise it could have such a dramatic effect do quickly. I still have crash symptoms tho be interesting to see if the tiredness goes away and I recover quicker from the crash. Haven't tried it yet to see if it will help extend energy envelope.

 

[Judee]

So covid19 also promotes quinolic acid levels in the brain:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2778090

Did you see this @Wishful?

 

[Wishful]

The paper doesn't really add much. QUIN's association with suicidal ideation has been known for some time (decades?). As I'd expect from a paper in a psychiatry journal, it seems to be a lot of vague connections to neurobiology, rather than new insights into neurobiology.

 

[nsdn]

Hi.

I take vitamin E daily. Is it better to take selenium separately so as not to take them together?

Thanks.

 

[Violeta]

So covid19 also promotes quinolic acid levels in the brain:

Since quinolinic acid is a product of the kynurenine pathway...

"The kynurenine pathway (KP) plays a critical role in generating cellular energy in the form of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+). Because energy requirements are substantially increased during an immune response, the KP is a key regulator of the immune system."

Do you think quinolinic acid levels are increased in ME/CFS?

I will start looking at that, but does anyone have their own quick fix for this type of issue?

Looking through some old posts I haven't found anyone having luck with this.

 

[JES]

Hi.

I take vitamin E daily. Is it better to take selenium separately so as not to take them together?

Thanks.

No, on the contrary, I have often seen vitamin E and selenium combined together in supplements and they both have synergistic effects supposedly.

 

[Wishful]

Do you think quinolinic acid levels are increased in ME/CFS?

I believe that they are, based on my responses to TRP, IFN-g and niacin. Hard to prove it, since it's the localized levels that matter, so it wouldn't show up on serum or CSF samples, and I don't want sample needles stuck into my brain.

I will start looking at that, but does anyone have their own quick fix for this type of issue?

Well, a diet deficient in TRP allowed me to avoid the increase in severity that I had from normal TRP intake. I never managed to significantly deplete my TRP reserves, and it didn't have any lasting benefits. BTW, it's quite difficult to avoid TRP and still have food worth eating.

As for that quote, please don't assume that it's as simple as it sounds. The kynurenine pathway is involved in a lot more than generating energy, and given a normal diet, from what I've read it's probably not a significant factor in your stamina.

 

[nsdn]

Hi.

Do you think that by trying this treatment it is necessary to control the selenium levels in the blood? Those who have tried it, how do they have these levels?

Greetings.

 

[nsdn]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7599506/




Further observations on the human maximum safe dietary selenium intake in a seleniferous area of China
G Yang 1, R Zhou
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 7599506

Abstract
This report is a summarization of preliminary results from a study of dietary Se intake in a seleniferous area in order to determine safe levels. All patients have symptoms of toxicity: broken hair strands or various levels of nail damage. Finger-nail signs were the first symptoms used for diagnosis of selenosis in this work. Based upon the lowest blood-Se level of five subjects with persistent overt finger-nail signs of selenosis, it was found in 1986 that the individual marginal toxic blood Se level (LOAEL) and the corresponding Se intake were 1054 micrograms/L and 910 micrograms/d, respectively. To re-examine the clinical signs and blood Se levels of the five individuals and to see how the two are correlated, a study was conducted in July 1992 at the same location in the seleniferous area. The results showed that along with the absence of clinical signs, the average blood Se level had decreased from 1346 to 968 micrograms/L. The corresponding safe Se intake per day would be 819 +/- 126 micrograms (15 micrograms/kg B.W. or approximately 800 micrograms per day, which is suggested as the mean No Adverse Effect Level (NOAEL), and the lower limit of the 95% confidence interval, 600 micrograms per day would approximately the maximum individual safe Se intake. For safety, 400 micrograms is again proposed as the Maximum Safe Daily Dietary Se Intake. Problems inherent in this estimation have been discussed.

 

[nsdn]

https://scielo.isciii.es/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0212-16112013000500005

 

[kewia]

Selenium dramatically improves my fatigue.

However, I can't take it that long as it seems to cause brain swelling/neck stiffness/dizziness+additional brain fog which lasts many months to recover.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I'm still not sure what the cause of it is. I've heard selenium increases inflammation, but seems to be more of immune modulatory kind.
The duration of months to eliminate brain swelling may be contributed by the fact that selenium has relative large half times to leave the body.

However, there is no linkage between selenium intake and an increase in intracranial pressure seen in science yet. Some people even believe it would decrease intracranial pressure.

Did anyone know if selenium depletes certain minerals or vitamins?
I didn't find anything on Google about it.

 

[hapl808]

Selenium dramatically improves my fatigue.

However, I can't take it that long as it seems to cause brain swelling/neck stiffness/dizziness+additional brain fog which lasts many months to recover.

I wonder if that's what was giving me even worse than usual crushing brain fog and mental PEM. I was just taking 200mcg per day, but my brain fog has been getting worse and worse (and it was already bad).

Always hard to figure out because I also added some other things recently, but I just cut out some stuff like selenium so we'll see. My fatigue had improved slightly, but my mental condition had worsened significantly - maybe it's similar to what you're describing.

Either way I'm relatively severe so it's splitting hairs, but if I could just improve my headaches and brain fog and neck stiffness, maybe I could do some work or something. Never heard that about selenium.