Hip
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In the light of the findings by Prof Ron Davis that manganese levels are low in the hair analysis of ME/CFS patients, I decided to look back in my journal to when I was experimenting with high-dose manganese, and I found some possible very positive results!
I often take 3 mg of manganese daily, as I find it has slight mood and enthusiasm-boosting effects (I think because manganese is a cofactor for making dopamine). If I go higher than about 3 mg, I notice some insomnia, even if I take the manganese in the morning. But I don't notice any benefits for my ME/CFS at this 3 mg dose level.
However, looking in my journal, in 2012 there was a period where I was taking manganese 40 mg daily for a short time (3 days), along with some other trace elements (zinc, molybdenum, vanadium, germanium, iodine selenium and silicon).
After taking 40 mg manganese daily for 3 days, I wrote some very positive results in my journal like:
"Very physically and energetically cleaning my room all evening" — this was written in my journal two days after the end of my 3 days of manganese supplementation at 40 mg daily.
And also, a complex mathematics project that I had abandoned since getting ME/CFS, I started working on again about 6 days after taking 40 mg manganese daily. I cannot normally do complex mathematics with my brain fog, so the fact I started working on a mathematical project is a strong indication of a positive effect.
I think there may be a fairly immediate effect from high-dose manganese, because 9 hours after my very first dose of manganese 40 mg, I wrote in my journal: "feeling quite clear headed mentally".
Then two days later, while still taking 40 mg daily, I wrote: "feeling quite relaxed and reasonably focused".
At this point, I seemed to have stopped taking manganese, perhaps because it was causing some insomnia (nothing is noted in my journal about why I stopped).
However, even though I stopped taking manganese, two days after stopping, I reported "very physically and energetically cleaning my room all evening". And 6 days after stopping, I started on the complex mathematical project, even though I had not taken manganese for the last 6 days. Several days after starting the mathematical project, my brain fog returned, and I was not able to continue.
So if these benefits are indeed from manganese, then the effects of high dose manganese seem to kick in within 9 hours; and even when you stop taking manganese, it appears the benefits remain for about a week or so.
The manganese supplement I took was Swanson Albion Manganese 40 mg, which contains manganese in the highly bioavailable form of manganese glycinate chelate.
I was also taking this high-dose manganese with the following trace minerals:
Trace Mineral Protocol:
Manganese 40 mg
Selenium (as selenomethionine) 200 mcg
Zinc 50 mg transdermal
Chromium (as chromium picolinate) 200 mcg
Molybdenum 150 mcg
Vanadyl sulphate 10 mg
Copper 2 mg transdermal
Germanium sesquioxide 100 mg
Iodine 11 mg
Horsetail herb (source of silicon) 600 mg
I am not sure if any of these other trace minerals were also helping, but since copper and selenium were found to be low in Ron Davis's hair mineral analysis of ME/CFS patients, these two minerals at least might be worth adding to the manganese.
(I take zinc and copper as crushed tablet powder, rubbed into the skin transdermally, as these two minerals often give me a stomach ache if I take them orally).
One has to be careful with long-term very high doses of manganese, though, because manganese can cause a Parkinson's-like disease called manganism, due to the manganese accumulating in the brain's basal ganglia.
I would definitely avoid trying intranasal manganese, because one article says "inhaled manganese is transported directly to the brain instead of first being metabolized by the liver".
I just need to figure out why manganese is causing me insomnia, so that I can try to find a workaround.
Apparently manganese competes with iron for absorption, and low iron can cause insomnia; so maybe when taking high-dose manganese, it may be an idea to take an iron tablet (but perhaps not at the same time, maybe take the iron 12 hours after the manganese). I will experiment to see if iron prevents the insomnia.
Anyway, today I am going to start further experiments with high-dose manganese, and have just now taken 20 mg of manganese, and will take this dose daily for the next few days. And I will take a 200 mg tablet of ferrous sulphate (contains 65 mg of iron) 12 hour after taking manganese each day.
Manganese is best absorbed on an empty stomach. Same for iron.
Prof Ron Davis in this video says that manganese is involved in many of the enzymes that are known to be a problem in ME/CFS.
Regarding these enzymes, this article says:
Pyruvate carboxylase might be important, as this mitochondrial enzyme converts pyruvate to oxaloacetate when acetyl CoA is available. This is a Krebs intermediate. See the green pathway in this diagram.
So pyruvate carboxylase facilitates anaplerotic replenishment of the Krebs cycle intermediates.
The article also says blood tests for manganese may not be that useful for measuring deficiency, because:
I often take 3 mg of manganese daily, as I find it has slight mood and enthusiasm-boosting effects (I think because manganese is a cofactor for making dopamine). If I go higher than about 3 mg, I notice some insomnia, even if I take the manganese in the morning. But I don't notice any benefits for my ME/CFS at this 3 mg dose level.
However, looking in my journal, in 2012 there was a period where I was taking manganese 40 mg daily for a short time (3 days), along with some other trace elements (zinc, molybdenum, vanadium, germanium, iodine selenium and silicon).
After taking 40 mg manganese daily for 3 days, I wrote some very positive results in my journal like:
"Very physically and energetically cleaning my room all evening" — this was written in my journal two days after the end of my 3 days of manganese supplementation at 40 mg daily.
And also, a complex mathematics project that I had abandoned since getting ME/CFS, I started working on again about 6 days after taking 40 mg manganese daily. I cannot normally do complex mathematics with my brain fog, so the fact I started working on a mathematical project is a strong indication of a positive effect.
I think there may be a fairly immediate effect from high-dose manganese, because 9 hours after my very first dose of manganese 40 mg, I wrote in my journal: "feeling quite clear headed mentally".
Then two days later, while still taking 40 mg daily, I wrote: "feeling quite relaxed and reasonably focused".
At this point, I seemed to have stopped taking manganese, perhaps because it was causing some insomnia (nothing is noted in my journal about why I stopped).
However, even though I stopped taking manganese, two days after stopping, I reported "very physically and energetically cleaning my room all evening". And 6 days after stopping, I started on the complex mathematical project, even though I had not taken manganese for the last 6 days. Several days after starting the mathematical project, my brain fog returned, and I was not able to continue.
So if these benefits are indeed from manganese, then the effects of high dose manganese seem to kick in within 9 hours; and even when you stop taking manganese, it appears the benefits remain for about a week or so.
The manganese supplement I took was Swanson Albion Manganese 40 mg, which contains manganese in the highly bioavailable form of manganese glycinate chelate.
I was also taking this high-dose manganese with the following trace minerals:
Trace Mineral Protocol:
Manganese 40 mg
Selenium (as selenomethionine) 200 mcg
Zinc 50 mg transdermal
Chromium (as chromium picolinate) 200 mcg
Molybdenum 150 mcg
Vanadyl sulphate 10 mg
Copper 2 mg transdermal
Germanium sesquioxide 100 mg
Iodine 11 mg
Horsetail herb (source of silicon) 600 mg
I am not sure if any of these other trace minerals were also helping, but since copper and selenium were found to be low in Ron Davis's hair mineral analysis of ME/CFS patients, these two minerals at least might be worth adding to the manganese.
(I take zinc and copper as crushed tablet powder, rubbed into the skin transdermally, as these two minerals often give me a stomach ache if I take them orally).
One has to be careful with long-term very high doses of manganese, though, because manganese can cause a Parkinson's-like disease called manganism, due to the manganese accumulating in the brain's basal ganglia.
I would definitely avoid trying intranasal manganese, because one article says "inhaled manganese is transported directly to the brain instead of first being metabolized by the liver".
I just need to figure out why manganese is causing me insomnia, so that I can try to find a workaround.
Apparently manganese competes with iron for absorption, and low iron can cause insomnia; so maybe when taking high-dose manganese, it may be an idea to take an iron tablet (but perhaps not at the same time, maybe take the iron 12 hours after the manganese). I will experiment to see if iron prevents the insomnia.
Anyway, today I am going to start further experiments with high-dose manganese, and have just now taken 20 mg of manganese, and will take this dose daily for the next few days. And I will take a 200 mg tablet of ferrous sulphate (contains 65 mg of iron) 12 hour after taking manganese each day.
Manganese is best absorbed on an empty stomach. Same for iron.
Prof Ron Davis in this video says that manganese is involved in many of the enzymes that are known to be a problem in ME/CFS.
Regarding these enzymes, this article says:
Pyruvate carboxylase might be important, as this mitochondrial enzyme converts pyruvate to oxaloacetate when acetyl CoA is available. This is a Krebs intermediate. See the green pathway in this diagram.
So pyruvate carboxylase facilitates anaplerotic replenishment of the Krebs cycle intermediates.
The article also says blood tests for manganese may not be that useful for measuring deficiency, because:
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