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Helping the body detoxify without ill effects possible?

amaru7

Senior Member
Messages
252
Hello,
there are a couple of things that are aupposed to help detoxify the body like high dose niacin, iodine and different other minerals, antiparasitic substances etc. I tried quite a few of them and when I often do get ill effects, that could be Herx or something else.
Heart palpitations, stomach problems, digestion problems, headaches, throat problems etc. what is it about these issues and are there safer more effective ways to detox the body?
 

erin

Senior Member
Messages
885
I found borax was the least harmless and long lasting. But it worked slowly I took it for 3 months. Made me slightly toilet bound in the mornings and gave me runny nose.
 

amaru7

Senior Member
Messages
252
Have you identified any specific toxins ? Otherwise there isn't good evidence detox is worth doing at all especially if you are getting nasty side effects.
Good question. I have no proof, but it would be Fluoride, because I used fluoride toothoaste for years, where iodine is an antagonist. Also cigarette smoking for years (stopped it atm), that has many toxic substances that need to be removed. And also daily toxins from foods that contain pesticides, herbicides etc., air pollution and so on

I think everybody has a certain toxic load and at some point the body can't handle it, which then can lead to diseases. The thing I found works good with no ill effects is drinking at least 2l water and sweating through excersice. Also supplements like zinc, magnesium and good foods, I thinkg, do help that process and give me no side effects.

Iodine for example made me feel pretty bad after short while and I took microgram dosages for a couple of days! Could be herx or an allergy
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,293
Location
Southern California
@amaru7 - I had problems with toxic overload for years and it finally resolved with the use of 3 amino acids: glycine, inositol and glutamine. In 2003 or 2004, my digestion was very screwed up, felt tired, sluggish, fluish, couldn't eat until after 12:00 noon. My chiropractor who does muscle testing told me my liver was overloaded with toxins and that's why I felt so sick. I had had a job many years before with heavy exposure to acetone and other chemicals and that seemed to be the problem. I did a liver detox under his supervision, it lasted 30 days and was rather rough but at the end of it my digestion was much better. I also started taking betaine HCL with meals and milk thistle for liver support. Also, before the detox, one glass of wine would leave me feeling sick for an entire day, and 2 glasses would make me sick for 3 days. And after the detox, I could tolerate wine again in moderation.

However, symptoms of toxicity would recur seemingly out the blue j- I would feel sick again, etc., and then usuaslly was able to tie it to something I had ingested - e.g., apple cider vinegar is supposed to be very good for digestion but it left me feeling sick, and then I read that ACV has "cleansing" properties. Anything that was supposed to be cleansing generally made me feel sick. I believe I was retoxing - the ACV etc. would get toxins mobilized out the cells, but they weren't getting out of my body and were just recirculating.

Also, I had had 9 or 10 amalgam mercury fillings which were removed in 1997 I think, so I think I had a load of mercury as well as other stuff. Sometimes my toxic symptoms were feeling spacey, actually felt like I had smoked pot or something and I was pretty sure this was mercury.

Over a period of several months (maybe a year? can't remember) I started taking glycine, inositol and glutamine (not all at once) = e.g., I took glycine for sleep - it helped a lot but it gave me a huge detox reaction. I had to cut my dose way down but kept taking it because it helped with sleep. Inositol also helped with sleep, but also made me detox, though not nearly as much as the glycine. And then I took glutamine (it was part of a BCAA combo) and again, the familiar detox symptoms appeared. But I kept up the glutamine too.

After some months of all of this I realized that I had stopped detoxing. I was no longer reacting badly to these amino acids and also could tolerate ACV (I use it on salads). I hardly ever get detox symptoms any more, and they had been a huge problem for years. I found this article about Phase II liver detox very interesting - it mentions glycine, inositol and glutamine as being necessary for phase II detox, as well as several other nutrients.
https://www.diagnose-me.com/treatment/liver-detoxification-phase-II-support.php

I don't know why so many people insist that detoxing is a myth. Hangovers are a form of toxicity, and if your liver is not up to par, you're going to get pretty sick from alcohol. Too much Tylenol can destroy the liver quite easily. Anyways, I didn't read about detoxing and then start looking for symptoms. I had pretty strong symptoms and then discovered what was causing them, thanks to my chiropractor.
 

dadouv47

Senior Member
Messages
745
Location
Belgium
@Mary What were your detox symptoms with amino acids? Didn't think you could have detox because of AA. Started them two weeks ago and feeling some improvements and some some side effects so that's why I'm asking :)

@amaru7 I take zeolite for detox (heavy metals and toxins), but won't be enough if u really have metal intoxication.
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,293
Location
Southern California
@dadouv47 - I think the three amino acids I mentioned above caused a detox reaction because they are used in the detoxification process (see the article I linked above). So I think they got things moving but my system was overloaded at first. The glycine made me very spacey - I got lost going to my sister's house (!) I was tired, had trouble focusing and thinking, and it hit pretty suddenly, within a few hours of taking the glycine. The inositol and glutamine were milder, just a general tired feeling and digestion was off, it was very familiar to me. But they don't do it any more.

I've taken other amino acids (BCAAs, lysine, l-carnitine, l-theanine, and more) and none of these caused a detox reaction for me.
 

dadouv47

Senior Member
Messages
745
Location
Belgium
@dadouv47 - I think the three amino acids I mentioned above caused a detox reaction because they are used in the detoxification process (see the article I linked above). So I think they got things moving but my system was overloaded at first. The glycine made me very spacey - I got lost going to my sister's house (!) I was tired, had trouble focusing and thinking, and it hit pretty suddenly, within a few hours of taking the glycine. The inositol and glutamine were milder, just a general tired feeling and digestion was off, it was very familiar to me. But they don't do it any more.

I've taken other amino acids (BCAAs, lysine, l-carnitine, l-theanine, and more) and none of these caused a detox reaction for me.

Thank you! (I should have read the article :p)
I think I feel a bit more spacey as well. I also feel restless and a little bit more anxious, but maybe that's because my amino acids supplements contains a bit of caffeine.
For the rest I really feel way better after doing an effort (less PEM) so I hope those side effects will pass :)
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,293
Location
Southern California
Thank you! (I should have read the article :p)
I think I feel a bit more spacey as well. I also feel restless and a little bit more anxious, but maybe that's because my amino acids supplements contains a bit of caffeine.
For the rest I really feel way better after doing an effort (less PEM) so I hope those side effects will pass :)

What amino acids are you taking?
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
I based my detox strategies on recommendations from GAPS developer, Natasha Campbell-McBride and Dr. Klinghardt. It took about 4 years to reach a stable point. I've written a few blog posts documenting my practices. good luck.
 

wdb

Senior Member
Messages
1,392
Location
London
Amino acids are just proteins right, for much less money than supplements you could just for example eat an egg which contains about the same.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1 egg
(click more on the Protein and amino acids box)

1 Egg

MSP35951bc52gh675eh23d300006a5d4ha868529egd
 
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Messages
10,157
My chiropractor who does muscle testing told me my liver was overloaded with toxins and that's why I felt so sick.

The liver does not retain 'toxins'.

The liver performs a series of chemical reactions to convert toxic substances into ones that can be eliminated in bile, or the kidneys. The liver is self-cleansing – toxins don’t accumulate in it, and unless you have documented liver disease, it generally functions without any problem. The kidney excretes waste products into the urine – otherwise the substance stays in the blood.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,379
Location
Austria
The liver is self-cleansing – toxins don’t accumulate in it, and unless you have documented liver disease, it generally functions without any problem

Only to a certain extent. After 7 malarias and there toxic treatment in 1999 I had a fatty liver and hepatitis diagnosed, about 8 years later additionally 2 non-circulated nodules on the right edge of the liver (5 + 8mm) have been found by sonography.

After now 9 years of supplementing all this has gone with improvement of liver enzymes. Now my liver functions (though with extensive support) :).


PS: if it 'generally' would function without problems, we wouldn't have almost an epidemic in NAFLD.
 
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Messages
10,157
Only to a certain extent. After 7 malarias and there toxic treatment in 1999 I had a fatty liver and hepatitis diagnosed, about 8 years later additionally 2 non-circulated nodules on the right edge of the liver (5 + 8mm) have been found by sonography.

After now 9 years of supplementing all this has gone with improvement of liver enzymes. Now my liver functions (though with extensive support) :).


PS: if it 'generally' would function without problems, we wouldn't have almost an epidemic in NAFLD.

I am not sure what you are saying here re: your last statement.

The liver doesn't need supplements at all to heal, etc. I wonder how supplements work to regenerate the liver etc. I think it's a huge waste of money to use supplements because the body mostly will do this on its own unless there is so much damage a transplant is needed.

The liver is the main site of drug detoxification.

The liver is exposed to many chemicals in the body which may potentially induce cell death and injury within the liver itself.

The liver can regenerate damaged tissue rapidly thereby preventing its own failure. It's a marvellous what our bodies do.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,379
Location
Austria
PS: if it 'generally' would function without problems, we wouldn't have almost an epidemic in NAFLD.
I am not sure what you are saying here re: your last statement.

The Global Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver Disease Epidemic...

The impact
  • Incidence: Worldwide, the prevalence of NAFLD in the general population ranges from 9 to 37%.[1,2,3,4] NAFLD is the most common etiology of chronic liver disease in the US and other developed countries.[5,6] While the reported incidence is higher in Japan[7] and lower in England,[8] in the US, recent estimates suggest that NAFLD affects 30% of the general population, 58% of overweight people, and 90% of the morbidly obese.[9] Nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) has been estimated to affect 5–7% of the general population and as much as 34–40% of patients who have elevated liver enzymes.[10,11,12,13]
  • Metabolic syndrome (obesity, DM, hyperlipidemia) is an established risk factor for primary NAFLD.[12] More than one-third of adults and 17% of youth in the US are obese.[14] Obesity is the fifth leading risk factor for mortality globally.[15]
  • Economic impact: Finkelstein et al., estimated that in the US, the medical cost to treat obesity may be as high as $147 billion per year or roughly 9% of annual medical expenditures.[16] A 33% increase in the prevalence of obesity over the next two decades will hinder the efforts of healthcare cost containment.[17] An expert panel convened by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) stated that for the first time in history, the steadily improving worldwide life expectancy could level off or even decline as a result of increasing obesity.[18,19]


Natural history of NAFLD

Progression of NAFLD: NAFLD was historically thought to be of little importance. Although a majority of patients with NAFL remain stable, 25% of these patients can progress to NASH.[20,21] Of patients with NASH, the disease remains stable in 34–50%, histology improves in 18–29%, the progression of fibrosis occurs in 26–37%, and fibrosis progresses to cirrhosis in 9–25%.[22] Once cirrhosis develops in patients with NASH, their clinical course is comparable to patients with other causes of cirrhosis.[23] ...

The liver doesn't need supplements at all to heal, etc. I wonder how supplements work to regenerate the liver etc. I think it's a huge waste of money to use supplements because the body mostly will do this on its own unless there is so much damage a transplant is needed.

Again not my experience at all. In my case it only chronified from 1999 to 2009, before I started supplementing. It's money spend with a high return: improvement of health, since without healthy liver so many other body system start struggling.

The liver can regenerate damaged tissue rapidly thereby preventing its own failure. It's a marvellous what our bodies do.

It can regenerate in mild cases with precautions taken. Approximately 9% of annual medical expenditures and 30% of the general population affected it's only marvelous at how it generates income for the medical industry. Which can be prevented by appropriate awareness and inexpensive natural means.



 
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Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
Oops! This thread has slithered down that slippery slope of discussing pro versus con "alternative medicine." Please confine the discussion to the original topic of the Opening Post = Detoxification.

And, since much of this discussion involves patient experience, (which is impossible to prove or disprove) please let various members discuss their experiences without the thread getting disrupted with arguments. Thanks.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
Since members are neither able to stick to the central topic of the thread or respect the Moderator's Note above, this thread will be locked to further posts until we have time to go thread and remove posts that are off-topic, argumentative etc.

Thanks.
 
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Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,934
Location
Albuquerque
This thread is now open for further discussion. A number of posts have been removed as they were diverting the thread away from the topic introduced by the opening poster or contained rule infractions.

Please keep in mind that this is not the place to debate "alternative" versus "conventional" medicine. Members have found help from many types of medical protocols and it is not appropriate to challenge their experiences. Debating the merits of a protocol, sharing alternative experiences--fine. But please don't disrupt the threads started by members who wish to discuss a protocol that has helped them.

Thanks.