Oh joy! My environmental doctor has run some blood work on metals and I came quite positive for cobalt. Level at 13.6mcg (ref: <0.9 mcg). I am ordered to stay away from B12 for now, as I seem to have "overdosed". Problem is, if I don't take it for 2-3 days, I do feel bad and taking the B12 makes me feel much better! I assume the cobalt came from the HDXCBL 12 I sed to take for the NO peroxinitrite issue. Would this also happen if I take the ABCBL and MCBL sub-lingually? Not sure what to do really. Obviously don't want to have toxic levels of cobalt, but can't stop B12 either.
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Help! Cobalt issue
- Thread starter BiancaS
- Start date
Hi, Bianca.
I think it depends on the chemical form of the cobalt in the blood. If it's free cobalt ions, that is a toxicity issue. If it's bound in cobalamin (B12), as far as I know, that isn't toxic. Do you know what the analytical technique was? It may be one that breaks everything down and measures the total cobalt content.
Some people get high levels of free cobalt in their blood because of corrosion and wear of artificial joints. In one such case, I'm aware that NAC was a good chelator.
Best regards,
Rich
Freddd
Senior Member
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Hi BiancaS,
I'm in full agreement with Rich on this. Having cobalt in the blood is totally different from cobalamin. Sodium is poisonous and exlodes into fire when exposed to water. Chlorine is a poison. NaCl in water tastes salty and is essential to life. I have heard this "cobalt" issue before and it has absolutely nothing to do with cobalamin. Cobalamin IS NOT cobalt. Cobalt is a poisonous heavy metal. Cobalamin is essential for life. Metallic cobalt does not become cobalamin in humans. Cobalamin does not become cobalt. I doubt that the form of cobalamin makes any difference at all in this. However, if hydroxycbl does make a noticable difference after 2-3 days, I would expect the same thing with methylb12 and a simlar thing with adb12 after 2-3 weeks because it's turnover is slower. Look for a different explanation than cobalamin such as artifical joints as Rich has suggested.
Hi, thanks for the repies. I am afraid that cobalt has to do with B12.
http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/cobalt.html
The B12 molecules are bound to colbalt and hence the risk of building up too high levels, which can become toxic. This is an issue here which is monitored when people take B12 injections due to no/ohno issues, as this sometimes can happen. Was not sure about oral delivery though. Will check with the lab how this was analysed, but in any event levels are way too high now. Can't win.....
http://www.natural-health-information-centre.com/cobalt.html
The B12 molecules are bound to colbalt and hence the risk of building up too high levels, which can become toxic. This is an issue here which is monitored when people take B12 injections due to no/ohno issues, as this sometimes can happen. Was not sure about oral delivery though. Will check with the lab how this was analysed, but in any event levels are way too high now. Can't win.....
Freddd
Senior Member
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Hi Bianca,
The B12 molecules are bound to colbalt
That is not an accurate statement. The B12 molecule is built around the cobalt. Without the cobalt there is NO B12 molecule. It's not like the cobalamin molecule that can bind to the adebnosyl or methyl or OH or CN (cyanide). It can't release the cobalt like it can the cyanide. I know of no mechanism in the body, but Rich might know of something, that can actually break down the cobalamin molecule breaking the cobalt loose. When cobalmin combines with something it drops the CH3 or OH or CN portion and then combines with the toxin thereby detoxifying it. The treatment for cyanide poisoning is repeated 35 gram IV doses of hydroxycbl or methylb12. Even 35 grams doesn't induce cobalt poisoning. The cobalt molecule is a tiny amount of the 1300+ molecular mass of the cobalamin molecule. The article you post has no credibility at all and is ridiculous. It is obviously written by a very ignorant person who is misunderstanding whatever they are reading. It is totally wrong. B12 is not a source of "dietary cobalt". Putting cobalt in the body is in no way the same as eating b12 any more than eating salt will cause spontaneous human conbustion from the metallic sodium interacting with water or for that matter potassium in a potassium supplement doesn't make us burst into flame as metallic potassium would do in water.
mellster
Marco
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Interestingly I just took the general heavy metal test and the mercury test from osumex (urine) and while mercury presence was very low (I have 1 or 2 small amalgame leftover fillings from childhood), the general heavy metal test color resembled closely the reference color for Cadmium/Cobalt presence. I have been taken a lot of b12 lately and while I am not too worried about it, I wonder if that's the same effect here.
merylg
Senior Member
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
I am having this high Cobalt issue but showing in my Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis 2012 http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/hair-mineral-testing.15099/page-28#post-295327
I also had it high in 2004 HTMA but not as high as now. I also have high Copper in hair...yet recent serum copper & coeruloplasmin levels OK. Calculated free copper 0.
I intend to get more testing of metals & follow this up.
I also developed very high levels serum B12 on the methylation protocols. Then I became totally intolerant of even small doses of any form of B12. The advice from the HTMA people is not to supplement B12 when Cobalt is high...so they must have their reasons????
Other sources of Cobalt are dental alloys (bridges, crowns, ?braces, rings, dentures etc), filshie clips (tubal ligation), ? brain aneurysm clips, artificial joints, ceramics, drying agent in varnish, cigarette smoke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt
I also had it high in 2004 HTMA but not as high as now. I also have high Copper in hair...yet recent serum copper & coeruloplasmin levels OK. Calculated free copper 0.
I intend to get more testing of metals & follow this up.
I also developed very high levels serum B12 on the methylation protocols. Then I became totally intolerant of even small doses of any form of B12. The advice from the HTMA people is not to supplement B12 when Cobalt is high...so they must have their reasons????
Other sources of Cobalt are dental alloys (bridges, crowns, ?braces, rings, dentures etc), filshie clips (tubal ligation), ? brain aneurysm clips, artificial joints, ceramics, drying agent in varnish, cigarette smoke. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt
merylg
Senior Member
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
Other mechanism at play may be allergy to Cobalt & other metals. See MELISA site: http://www.melisa.org/
I already have Thiomersal contact allergy confirmed by Dermatologist, who suggested it was from having Hep B vaccine as a health worker. There are suggestions now, that even patch testing can further sensitize people. Hence advantage of ELISA testing.
I already have Thiomersal contact allergy confirmed by Dermatologist, who suggested it was from having Hep B vaccine as a health worker. There are suggestions now, that even patch testing can further sensitize people. Hence advantage of ELISA testing.
merylg
Senior Member
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- 841
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
"Cobalt Metabolism & Toxicology - A brief update" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22732165
merylg
Senior Member
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- 841
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
2009 CDC Fourth National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals has a section on Cobalt at page 208
http://www.cdc.gov/exposurereport/pdf/fourthreport.pdf
http://www.cdc.gov/exposurereport/pdf/fourthreport.pdf
A study shows increased Levels of cobalt in urine and blood levels in Autismus disorder after taking methylcobalamin suupplements:
http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/100430_PublishedGeiers_AutismCohortStudyOfCobaltLevels.pdf
http://mercury-freedrugs.org/docs/100430_PublishedGeiers_AutismCohortStudyOfCobaltLevels.pdf
Little Bluestem
All Good Things Must Come to an End
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Wouldn't that transport more B12 into the hair?
Little Bluestem
All Good Things Must Come to an End
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My registered clinical dietitian said that vitamin B12 was the body's main source of cobalt.
@Little Bluestem
I don't think so. My hair cobalt was very high, at a time when I was taking only 500 mcg methyl b12. On my most recent test, after taking lithium for about 6 months, my hair cobalt is way down, even though I had been taking 2000 mcg methyl b12 + 2000 mcg adb12 for the few months before that. I do believe lithium is helping b12 to get to where it needs to go, in my case.
I don't think so. My hair cobalt was very high, at a time when I was taking only 500 mcg methyl b12. On my most recent test, after taking lithium for about 6 months, my hair cobalt is way down, even though I had been taking 2000 mcg methyl b12 + 2000 mcg adb12 for the few months before that. I do believe lithium is helping b12 to get to where it needs to go, in my case.
Little Bluestem
All Good Things Must Come to an End
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@Indie, So are you saying that the B12 is going where it needs to go instead of to your hair?
I have been doing sporadic hair testing for four years. My cobalt has always been undetectably low. Taking 1000 mcg of methylB12 hasn't helped. Taking Lithium hasn't helped. Taking 2.5 mg adenosylB12 for a few months after I started the Lithium didn't help.
I have been doing sporadic hair testing for four years. My cobalt has always been undetectably low. Taking 1000 mcg of methylB12 hasn't helped. Taking Lithium hasn't helped. Taking 2.5 mg adenosylB12 for a few months after I started the Lithium didn't help.
@Little Bluestem, I do think the B12 is going where it needs to go now for me. According to Yasko you need to do hair analyses to see if lithium is balanced. It's possible you need more lithium or for a longer period of time until it's balanced. Before I was taking lithium, my hair lithium levels were near the bottom of the reference range. After a few months of 5mg lithium orotate, my hair lithium levels are a bit above the middle of the reference. So I wasn't very low lithium to begin with, like some are.