Helminthic Therapy, the only thing to make a difference so far

[bad1080]

i think this is the article where it says "breaking the skin is enough for a type 2 immune reaction" (not a direct quote, just from the top of my head): https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.aat1604 (if it is not i forgot where i got it from)

seems to be more difficult than that, here it sounds like it is a whole cascade triggering a type 2 immune reaction:

Large multicellular helminths can trigger potent and polarized type 2 immune responses. Considerable advances in our understanding of the initiation phase of the immune response to helminth infections have been made over the past few years, using experimental models of helminth infection [...]
DAMPs are often released by damaged host cells, as a consequence of these large multicellular parasites trafficking through tissues and causing cellular damage by their sheer physical size and release of proteases. Several DAMPs shown to trigger innate immunity in the context of helminth infection include ATP, chitinase-like proteins, and trefoil factors. In many cases each of these different stimuli are essential for the development of this type 2 immune response, indicating the high threshold required for its initiation.

from: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9813923/

 

[light24bulbs]

I think maybe you're describing "the bounce". I get it as well it's not sustained and it diminishes with each dose for me. It's nice, though.

 

[Wishful]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/02/250207152719.htm

This new discovery might help understand the interaction between helminths and ME. The t-cells express a receptor not expected in t-cells. If no one knew about this aspect of the immune system, they certainly weren't going to check for it in ME research. Maybe this is a biomarker for ME. So far we don't have the start of a trail for researchers to follow, so establishing an abnormality in most PWME could lead to further discoveries.

 

[bad1080]

In a previous study published in 2018, the research team demonstrated that IL-4 stimulation of TVM cells enhances viral infection control during co-infections with helminths and viruses. However, this intense stimulation of TVM cells during parasitic infection does not appear to play a role in controlling the parasite itself, which intrigued the researchers.

very interesting!
i'll try to find said study...

edit: this might be it: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30375396/

Abstract​

Infection with parasitic helminths can imprint the immune system to modulate bystander inflammatory processes. Bystander or virtual memory CD8+ T cells (TVM) are non-conventional T cells displaying memory properties that can be generated through responsiveness to interleukin (IL)-4. However, it is not clear if helminth-induced type 2 immunity functionally affects the TVM compartment. Here, we show that helminths expand CD44hiCD62LhiCXCR3hiCD49dlo TVM cells through direct IL-4 signaling in CD8+ T cells. Importantly, helminth-mediated conditioning of TVM cells provided enhanced control of acute respiratory infection with the murid gammaherpesvirus 4 (MuHV-4). This enhanced control of MuHV-4 infection could further be explained by an increase in antigen-specific CD8+ T cell effector responses in the lung and was directly dependent on IL-4 signaling. These results demonstrate that IL-4 during helminth infection can non-specifically condition CD8+ T cells, leading to a subsequently raised antigen-specific CD8+ T cell activation that enhances control of viral infection.

full text link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6207712/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/02/250207152719.htm

in case anybody can find the full text version for this DOI: 10.1126/sciimmunol.adk4841 please lmk!

 

[light24bulbs]

Just wanted to chime back in that I'm doing really well on 4 NA again. The HDC combined with 50k vitamin D and magnesium helped keep the week 3 side-effects manageable. I'll be following a similar dosing schedule to the one mentioned in this thread and redosing on week 5 with another 3, while continuing HDC every 2 weeks.

I can already feel the NA helping with my long COVID PEM and my POTS is also starting to diminish. Currently starting week 4. Hopefully in a few more weeks I will have pretty serious remission from CFS, as I did last time I went on NA.

Thanks for reading and I'll give more updates as time goes on.

 

[bad1080]

on monday i had difficulties getting myself out of bed, limbs like lead, zero energy, my day was a struggle. i probably killed my colony with coconut and pumpkin seeds by accident...

had a dose of 3NA on wednesday and today (friday) i was able to take a short walk in the park. inflammation in my joints is way down, i slept so much better, the bed felt cozy again...
every time i am baffled by the effect and it has been consistent and reproducible, no "supplement poop-out" to note and i been doing this for almost 1.5 years at this point (1y 5m 20d). whatever it is that's happening here is my missing link.

https://imgur.com/a/ypkXwuy

 

[Wishful]

on monday i had difficulties getting myself out of bed, limbs like lead, zero energy, my day was a struggle.

I had the same response to the onion I tested on Wednesday. Instead of going for a walk, I went for a trudge. I have the same effect from coffee or chocolate, and had similar responses to fermentable fibre and various other foodstuffs. There is likely some common element to these and the immune responses to worms. Enough different examples, and maybe someone will see the connection.

BTW, I really wish people wouldn't post photos and videos. Not everyone has fast internet or fast GPUs (with slow internet, not useful).

 

[bad1080]

BTW, I really wish people wouldn't post photos and videos. Not everyone has fast internet or fast GPUs (with slow internet, not useful).

i only posted a link to the image, i can't keep the site from resolving it, same with youtube links
maybe make a separate thread about it and we can see if there's a setting that can be added?

 

[bad1080]

when i say "the bed feels cozy again" i believe this must be from a push into the parasympathetic nervous system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasympathetic_nervous_system

 

[Wishful]

I had the same response to the onion I tested on Wednesday. Instead of going for a walk, I went for a trudge.

A followup on that: the day after only managing a short unpleasant trudge, I went for a walk on the same route, and after ~1.5 hrs of hiking at a brisk stride, I decided to turn back only because I expected my "stamina charge indicator" had gone below 50% and I didn't have a "teleport home" device. I was satisfyingly fatigued by the time I returned home. That's the difference between my baseline and my condition affected by foods.

Enjoyable hike though. I hiked over a frozen creek, with lots of beaver dams. I can't hike that way at other times of the year, since it's soggy muskeg, so this is an opportunity to explore new areas ... as long as I avoid the wrong foods.

 

[bad1080]

A followup on that: the day after only managing a short unpleasant trudge, I went for a walk on the same route, and after ~1.5 hrs of hiking at a brisk stride, I decided to turn back only because I expected my "stamina charge indicator" had gone below 50% and I didn't have a "teleport home" device. I was satisfyingly fatigued by the time I returned home. That's the difference between my baseline and my condition affected by foods.

Enjoyable hike though. I hiked over a frozen creek, with lots of beaver dams. I can't hike that way at other times of the year, since it's soggy muskeg, so this is an opportunity to explore new areas ... as long as I avoid the wrong foods.

it's not uncommon certain foods are affecting helminths but i never heard of onions being a problem

Onion (Allium cepa). This is used as an ingredient in some proprietary deworming formulations and has been claimed to create an 'uninhabitable environment' for intestinal worms and to help eradicate tapeworms in particular. However, if eaten in normal dietary quantities, onion should not harm therapeutic human helminths.

from: https://www.helminthictherapywiki.org/wiki/Human_helminth_care_manual

 

[Wishful]

it's not uncommon certain foods are affecting helminths but i never heard of onions being a problem

I doubt that I have helminths. I have been checked for worm eggs several times; all negative. I've been intolerant of lots of foods, at different times. Alliums used to be safe for me. All those foods must have some common element with helminth infestation, but the answer isn't obvious.

 

[xploit316]

I've been intolerant of lots of foods, at different times. Alliums used to be safe for me. All those foods must have some common element with helminth infestation, but the answer isn't obvious.

@Wishful Slight derail to the thread with just this 1 post, but I am getting issues with Onion, garlic like you. Used to be ok with both, but get bad gastric burps, bloating and hair itch since last 1 month or so. Even plain onion/garlic oil gives issues. May have to eliminate for the time being and reintroduce later. I liked your prior food embryo theory, I found that I dont do well with GABA raising foods/activities that included all germinated seeds, peanuts etc. Some more angles to explore and experiment I guess.

 

[Wishful]

Germinated seeds didn't cause me problems. It must have been some chemical in the embryo that quickly disappears during germination. Potatoes and sweet potatoes have embryo tissue (eyes for regular potatoes), so I couldn't tolerate them. I thought my intolerance of coffee and chocolate was because the beans had embryos, but I'm still intolerant of those, so it's not the embryo chemical. Figuring these things out does require lots of different experiments, because some of the experiments might contradict some theory you made from just a few observations.

Next thing to retest is ginger/turmeric. I'll save that for a forecast rainy day, so I don't waste a nice day staying inside being miserable.

 

[bad1080]

@Wishful @xploit316 can you make a separate thread for this?

 

[Wishful]

@Wishful @xploit316 can you make a separate thread for this?

We can simply stop discussing non-heminthic dietary stuff in this thread. Threads do tend to go off-course after a while.