Health obsession anxiety

[anxiousguy]

I haven't been on this forum much lately.

I initially started posting and looking towards methylation as the cure to my mental illness. I didn't realize until later that a lot of what I was (and still) going through was withdrawal from all of the meds that I was on. I didn't realize that you could have that after being off for a year. The doctors all said that they were out of your system in a matter of weeks.

After doing 23andme and talking to multiple MTHFR docs, I shelved dealing with methylation. It is soooooo complicated and no one could agree and it was just a never ending wormhole of more and more money and tests and supplements. More foods I couldn't eat etc. It was making life even harder and making me more anxious - the very thing I was looking to cure. Once I realized the lunacy of this, I gave all of my health anxieties and obsessions a break. I couldn't do it any longer.

The reason for this post is that I am curious about a couple things:
I am trying to avoid foods that I know are fortified with folic acid.
1) How do I know if something has folic acid in it if it isn't on a label? I just realized that a donut at Dunkin Donuts has folic acid in it?!?!?!?! What things can I eat and not? How bad is it if I eat some stuff in moderation?
2) Someone told me that I am making myself sick eating apples from the grocery store because of pesticides...that rinsing isn't enough. Is this true? I can't afford to eat organic everything.

Thank you

 

[Critterina]

@anxiousguy ,

I think it is a very healthy thing to give yourself a break from whatever is causing you anxiety - so hooray for you!

1. I don't know, if it doesn't have a label. How did you find out about the Dunkin Donut? As far as moderation goes - I think that is the most rational, logical, and stress-free way to do it. Don't compare yourself to perfection; compare yourself to how you were doing before you started making changes.

2. You don't need to make everything organic, but there are some things that are 'cleaner' and 'dirtier' than others. I keep the "Dirty Dozen" and "Clean Fifteen" - the fruit/vegetable foods with the most and least pesticides posted on my refrigerator. I think if you get the dirty dozen organic most of the time, you're probably doing enough. See http://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary.php and get the list. It changes every year, I think.

Besides that, I try to go for organic dairy, not necessarily because it's good for me or that I eat a lot of it, but because it changes so much - the feed, the pasture, the animals, the environment - for the better. Also, if you are going to choose one personal care product to be organic, use the body lotion - it covers the most area and you don't wash it off right away like you do shampoo.

I have to ask, since you are MTHFR A1298C and MTRR A66G +/+, did you try methylfolate and methylcobalamin or just give up trying to figure out what you needed to do? Did any of the doctors talk about Deplin? If you tried any of these, did you notice any effects, good or bad?

Best of health to you!
Critterina

 

[caledonia]

Hey bud!

I think all wheat flour is going to have "folic acid" in it. For chain restaurants, you can go to their website for detailed nutrition info. The ingredients for donuts are on the Dunkin' Donuts site, and yes they have folic acid.

BUT if you eat a donut every once in awhile I doubt if it's going to kill you or make you worse mentally. If I remember correctly, you still have a fully functioning MTHFR C677T gene, so you're in better shape than a lot of people on here as far as being able to metabolize "folic acid".

So have the occasional donut and enjoy it!

I eat a lot of apples, so I've researched this. Apples are one of the Dirty Dozen. However, I muscle test everything. Gala apples consistently test fine, while other types can have problems. So I usually get Galas and feel comfortable with that decision.

This time of year you might be able to get locally grown or organic apples for a competitive price, as they're in season. Locally grown food usually tests well and organic always does.

 

[Sherpa]

@anxiousguy

My digestion, moods and energy improved significantly after giving up all processed food.

Avoid sugar & grains.. especially wheat & gluten, flour, etc. In addition to being fortified dwith folic acid... wheat products cause anxiety, depression and/or or inflammation in a significant percentage of the population. (Humans never ate wheat until very recently in the history of our species and we are not well adapted to it.) I started to follow the Primal Blueprint diet -- http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ -- which replaced the grains, sugar and flour for fresh veggies, fruit, meats, eggs and fats.

I was surprised to also feel a big improvement in my anxiety and OCD after consuming only eating healthy fats (omega-3 rich grass fed butter, fish oil, coconut oil, olive oil, avocados)... and avoiding toxic oils... like vegetable oils, margarine, fried food (french fries & doughnuts), most restaurant food, etc. The brain is made almost out of fats...so garbage in, garbage out. Good fats in = good mood, low anxiety.

People with CFS may be more sensitive to pesticides and chemicals than 'normal' people. Organic apples are not too expensive or hard to find! Pick real, fresh food (that spoils in a few days) over processed and as organic as you can afford. When you feel the difference, you'll figure out how to budget for more

 

[IreneF]

Fish and fish oil are good for balancing your mental state.

 

[alex3619]

Wholemeal products often do not have added folic acid. Its refined products that often do, in countries where the flour is fortified. So white flour is out. Rice varies ... white rice is not always enriched, you need to check, and this varies country by country. White bread is a big NO. Bread made from white flour and then enriched to make it "wholemeal" or "seeded" or "brown" is probably enriched white flour with other stuff added. Stoneground wholemeal might be something to look for.

The evidence is growing that folic acid is dangerous even for people who do not have a genetic predisposition to problems Further, this danger increases with age.

 

[Sherpa]

@anxiousguy have you tried inositol? I think some anxiety is caused by under-methylation. Insitol has been proven in clinical, double-blind studies to be as effective as SSRIs and other psych meds for OCD, etc. - http://inositolpage.blogspot.com/2007/10/psycho-powder-panacea-or-placebo.html.

 

[anxiousguy]

Thanks everyone.
@Critterina
@caledonia
@Sherpa
@alex3619
@IreneF

Just to be clear, I don’t have CFS/ME or anything other than OCD/depression/anxiety.


I drastically altered my diet about 9 months ago. I was so rigid initially that it made me miserable and anxious. No gluten, no processed, no this, no that. I just try to eat healthy most of the time and eliminate most of the crap.


I don’t know how much more expensive it is to eat organic apples instead of “regular” apples.


When you have anxiety/ocd, you want things to be as simple as possible b/c you complicate things on your own. The thought of having to rinse apples in a mixture of vinegar etc was daunting. I’d then have to research how to do it, confirm it is the correct way and then make a note to remember to do it after shopping and have vinegar at work.


As far as eating the folic acid periodically, how bad is it. I am paranoid that I am going to give myself cancer. Is ingesting a little ok? Before I had realized I was MTHFR, my doctor had me taking folic acid every day. Is it ok to eat some stuff that might be fortified as long as I’m not eating a ton? What are the risks? Can my body convert ANY folic acid? Just from natural food sources(spinach) and not fortified(bread)? I am attaching my snps (I don’t know why they are not in my signature.


How bad is it to not eat organic dirty dozen?


As far as methylation – I did take Deplin and tried b12 (separately before know about methylation). I don’t know if it was the antidepressant withdrawal side effects or just situational , but I fell so bad. I possibly overdid it. I don’t know. I am so paranoid about feeling awful again. I still do anyway, but I was suicidal I felt so bad. It is never as simple as taking one thing, it is always take this and cofactors.


As far as inositol, I did research it. Generally, as far as the supplements, I don’t know what to do. My intuition tells me to cool it with all of this for now. Inveriably, I can’t stop researching and trying things and getting tests etc. It is never as simple as take this one thing, it is always take this, but then you need to take these cofactors, etc, etc.


The only things I’m taking now are D, Cod liver oil, Rhodiola




+/+ COMT V158M , COMT H62H , MAO-A R297R , MTHFR a1298C
+/- VDR Bsm , VDR Taq , ACAT1-02 , MTRR A66G , AHCY-01 , ACHY-19 , CBS 699T
no call MTRR H595Y , MTRR R415T , BHMT-04 , AHCY-02 , CBS N212N , SHMT1 C1420T
Detox
+/-
CYP1A2 164A>C , CYP1B1 R48G , CYP2D6 S486T , CYP2D6 2850C>T , SOD2 A16V , NAT2 I114T , NAT2 K268R
present: GSTT1

 

[barbc56]

@anxiousguy

May I ask why you went off the antidepressant? Was it not working? Unfortunately, sometimes it takes trying different meds or combination of meds before you see results.

Anxiety is like a loop which feeds upon itself and sometimes it takes a medication to stop this cycle in its tracks. There are also psychotropic meds to help OCD.

I'm not saying abandoning the diet and other things you have tried. But if they work it would be a long term solution and it sounds like you need relief now.
I'm
Also, its important to have a psychiatrist and not a general MD, to assess if meds are needed or not.

This may or may not apply to you or you may already know or have tried these things, but thought I'd throw in my two cents worth.

Take care.

Barb

 

[alex3619]

We don't have all the answers with respect to folic acid, yet. Its still a controversial topic and its only been about six years since the alert has been raised, but maybe about a decade and a half since the suspicion was there.

One estimate is that two slices of folic acid fortified bread is enough to poison us. The liver simply cannot convert the folic acid to metabolically available methyl folate and it enters the general circulation.

Yet lets be clear that substantive risk seems to be from years of folic acid fortification, not occasional use.

The long term risk is dementia, immune problems, accelerated aging, and cancer. Yet its about an increase in relative risk.

For those particularly susceptible, that is the one in five or so who have genetic issues related to folate, the risk is much higher and includes neurological and other problems, including possibly autism and ME, though it is very uncertain it is causal rather than an exacerbating factor in autism or ME.

Yet much of this is very early in the science. Very little of it is certain.

Dealing with folic acid is about risk management for the most part. Its a probable problem, easy enough to manage, so why not do so if you have increased risk or a related problem?

 

[nells49]

@anxiousguy

My digestion, moods and energy improved significantly after giving up all processed food.

Avoid sugar & grains.. especially wheat & gluten, flour, etc. In addition to being fortified dwith folic acid... wheat products cause anxiety, depression and/or or inflammation in a significant percentage of the population. (Humans never ate wheat until very recently in the history of our species and we are not well adapted to it.) I started to follow the Primal Blueprint diet -- http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ -- which replaced the grains, sugar and flour for fresh veggies, fruit, meats, eggs and fats.

I was surprised to also feel a big improvement in my anxiety and OCD after consuming only eating healthy fats (omega-3 rich grass fed butter, fish oil, coconut oil, olive oil, avocados)... and avoiding toxic oils... like vegetable oils, margarine, fried food (french fries & doughnuts), most restaurant food, etc. The brain is made almost out of fats...so garbage in, garbage out. Good fats in = good mood, low anxiety.

People with CFS may be more sensitive to pesticides and chemicals than 'normal' people. Organic apples are not too expensive or hard to find! Pick real, fresh food (that spoils in a few days) over processed and as organic as you can afford. When you feel the difference, you'll figure out how to budget for more

I feel better after junk food go figure lol

 

[IreneF]

I feel better after junk food go figure lol

Junk food is very satisfying; it's a comfort food. It's a good thing I don't leave the house, or I'd be eating Kentucky Fried for that greasy, crunchy rush.

 

[IreneF]

Canola oil ought to be good because it has a lot of linolenic acid. Just make sure it's really, really fresh. Pasture butter and grass-fed beef are good. Personally, I think whole grains are ok, and I don't think they are fortified. You have to make sure they are fresh, too.

I think some people can't smell rancidity, which is what happens when oils decompose. I can smell and taste it in things like nuts, so I'm careful about where things come from.

 

[DeGenesis]

Hey are you taking an SSRI? I have had OCD for most of my life and they are the only thing that works. Sometimes it takes a lot of experimenting to find what's right. Fluvoxamine of all drugs was the only one I could tolerate.

Fish oil will help to balance you, like someone said. I take it and it helps a TON with mood regulation, but it comes with some sides like lower sex drive and some more fatigue. I found the pros out-wade the cons.

 

[IreneF]

Hey are you taking an SSRI? I have had OCD for most of my life and they are the only thing that works. Sometimes it takes a lot of experimenting to find what's right. Fluvoxamine of all drugs was the only one I could tolerate.

Fish oil will help to balance you, like someone said. I take it and it helps a TON with mood regulation, but it comes with some sides like lower sex drive and some more fatigue. I found the pros out-wade the cons.

Probably better to eat fish instead of taking pills, but fresh fish is so expensive, and frozen fish is kind of yucky. I eat canned tuna, just not too much because of the mercury.

 

[MeSci]

If you have any outdoor space you can grow fruit trees or bushes. Apple trees are very low-maintenance and there are even varieties that can be grown in containers - some info here.

Blackcurrants are easy to grow in containers, and I have a gooseberry plant in one too which gave me quite a lot of fruit this year (but not as much as the one that had been in the ground for years and given me almost nothing until this year!). Currants need a reasonable amount of sun to produce a good crop.

I agree with limiting grain, but I have only completely cut out the gluten-containing ones: wheat, rye and barley. I seem OK with small amounts of rice and maize (corn). I would also agree with avoiding added sugar. Milk is a problem for some people.

Basically, a leaky-gut diet suits many with ME and can improve symptoms. Don't listen to people who say that you must eat foods to which you are intolerant. There is no point eating a 'healthy' food bursting with nutrients if an intolerance means that it, and the rest of your food, whizz through you without being digested properly.

I don't see attention to diet as obsessive - it's common sense.

"Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food", Hippocrates, the 'father of Western Medicine', 431 BC.

Why have we lost sight of this obvious truth?

 

[anxiousguy]

@barbc56
@DeGenesis

Thank you for the replies. I was on a ton of different meds for years. They never helped my OCD or anxiety. I tried bunches and I have less faith in Psychiatrists and mental health "professionals" than the average doctor. They wore me out and gave me tons of side effects as well as not helping.

I also had major anxiety and suicidal depression after getting off. There are numerous sites on the internet that address psych med withdrawal which the mental health community doesn't recognize. This can go on for years!!! I have been off for a year and a half and I am still having problems. I am not saying that meds never help anyone, I am just saying that they can be very harmful and I don't think we understand the brain/depression.

Thanks

 

[Sherpa]

I also had major anxiety and suicidal depression after getting off. There are numerous sites on the internet that address psych med withdrawal which the mental health community doesn't recognize. This can go on for years!!! I have been off for a year and a half and I am still having problems.

@anxiousguy @DeGenesis
That what's so appealing about inositol. It's the only natural remedy I know that can give "prescription strength" relief from the misery of OCD / depression like SSRI drugs or tranzuilizers. Without the side effects, sexual dysfunction, addiction, withdrawal symptoms. If you forget to take it, no big deal. You can easily up or down the dose as you like. If you decide to go off it - no sweat, no hell to pay... other than your your original symptoms may gently come back. It can also can help people get off SSRIs and meds, helps others get off cannabis.

I'm not saying it is a panacea or it will solve all your problems. It has downsides (harder to figure out the right dose than pharma pills, messy powder form, some people require dosing 2x or 3x a day). Works good for some cases, not so good for others.

Dr. Pupko's article on inositol is the best summary - Listening to Inositol - Clinical Notes

 

[anxiousguy]

@Sherpa

I am currently trying inositol.

My stomach is having a hard time tolerating it. Any thoughts?

 

[Sherpa]

@anxiousguy start low and go slow...no more than 1/4 teaspoon per day...increase as tolerated