Kati
Patient in training
- Messages
- 5,497
Irritable Jimbob? I'd call it in my case real plain bitchy... I hope antiretrovirals help this 
:tear:
:tear:
have we discussed irritablity?
- Thread starter sela
- Start date
Dreambirdie
work in progress
- Messages
- 5,569
- Location
- N. California
Danny--You made me REALLY HUNGRY with that list of food. I LOVE the bone broths especially. Yum! And fermented kraut as well.
Tho I gotta say, I have to sneak in a bit of raw food too, especially during the warmer months. There's nothing like a cucumber,tomato and avocado smoothie with some cayenne pepper thrown in. IT's like drinking guacamole.
Tho I gotta say, I have to sneak in a bit of raw food too, especially during the warmer months. There's nothing like a cucumber,tomato and avocado smoothie with some cayenne pepper thrown in. IT's like drinking guacamole.
Brainfog here, the one thing I wanted to common on was the antihistamine, bendryl, and the other one a p-word i think, anyway they both make me really tired too.
Dreambirdie
work in progress
- Messages
- 5,569
- Location
- N. California
Hey Dan,
I have another liver recipe--for liver patte, which I got from my acupuncturist. It's yummy.
It requires half a pound of liver and half a pound of soft creamy cheese (I use the soft goat cheese that comes in a tub), green onions, and several spices.
First you sautee a bunch of chopped green onions in a mix of half olive oil and half butter.
You add cumin, coriander, black pepper, and nutmeg, and let these spices mix into the butter/oil. (I use a lot of each spice).
Then you place the liver in the pan and cook it until it's tender, but not overcooked.
When the liver and onion mix is done cooking, you put it in a blender with the cream cheese, and blend it until it's all mushed up.
I store the patte in a jar in the fridge and eat it over the next few days. It takes great!
I have another liver recipe--for liver patte, which I got from my acupuncturist. It's yummy.
It requires half a pound of liver and half a pound of soft creamy cheese (I use the soft goat cheese that comes in a tub), green onions, and several spices.
First you sautee a bunch of chopped green onions in a mix of half olive oil and half butter.
You add cumin, coriander, black pepper, and nutmeg, and let these spices mix into the butter/oil. (I use a lot of each spice).
Then you place the liver in the pan and cook it until it's tender, but not overcooked.
When the liver and onion mix is done cooking, you put it in a blender with the cream cheese, and blend it until it's all mushed up.
I store the patte in a jar in the fridge and eat it over the next few days. It takes great!
jimbob
ME/CFS84-XMRV+
- Messages
- 321
- Location
- myrtle beach, s.c.
when I get really bad I call it tired head feeling and that's when I become a bitch like Kati!L.O.L.
sela
Senior Member
- Messages
- 122
- Location
- marin co, ca
athene,
the antihistimine works a bit. can't really tell if it is just making me tired but i am definitely into trying this. do you know why we would have a histimine problem and is there a way to fix it?
the antihistimine works a bit. can't really tell if it is just making me tired but i am definitely into trying this. do you know why we would have a histimine problem and is there a way to fix it?
Histamine
Hiya,
The reason we have all this histamine is twofold.
We have skewed immune systems that are prone to developing allergies (especially IgG ones).
We have broken methylation cycles, and methylation is one of the two ways the body eliminates old histamine.
The best help is avoiding allergens. For me a food allergy test was a great help but I also had to make my husband de-mould the house and I have a cleaning lady who carries out major dustmite removal sessions for me. You need to hide while other people help ou with this, otherwise it just gets worse if you try to do it yourself. There are also certain foods that either contain histamine themselves, or provoke it in everyone, regardless of whether they are allergic to that food or not. (cheese, wine, oranges, various fruits, it's a long list.) When I can get the data form my old dead computer I'll dig up a link to an excellent article about it.
The get rid of the excess, our other natural method is the enzyme diamine oxidase, which you can buy in tablet form (called Daosin) as the body tends to run out. You take it like an antihistamine tablet but it has no side effects at all. There's also no such thing as an overdose.
Also make sure you get plenty of vit B6 and C, as the body needs these to make diamine oxidase.
Finally, when you have these mast cells (= histamine factories) lurking in you, other things can make them degranulate, such as getting too cold or too hot (no hot baths!), estrogen (kind of hard to avoid), traffic fumes and various other things which I am afraid I cannot remember.
This is a bit of a hasty brain dump but if you rummage on google you should be able to fill in some of the gaps. Definitely order that Daosin stuff, it's a lifesaver for me.
Hiya,
The reason we have all this histamine is twofold.
We have skewed immune systems that are prone to developing allergies (especially IgG ones).
We have broken methylation cycles, and methylation is one of the two ways the body eliminates old histamine.
The best help is avoiding allergens. For me a food allergy test was a great help but I also had to make my husband de-mould the house and I have a cleaning lady who carries out major dustmite removal sessions for me. You need to hide while other people help ou with this, otherwise it just gets worse if you try to do it yourself. There are also certain foods that either contain histamine themselves, or provoke it in everyone, regardless of whether they are allergic to that food or not. (cheese, wine, oranges, various fruits, it's a long list.) When I can get the data form my old dead computer I'll dig up a link to an excellent article about it.
The get rid of the excess, our other natural method is the enzyme diamine oxidase, which you can buy in tablet form (called Daosin) as the body tends to run out. You take it like an antihistamine tablet but it has no side effects at all. There's also no such thing as an overdose.
Also make sure you get plenty of vit B6 and C, as the body needs these to make diamine oxidase.
Finally, when you have these mast cells (= histamine factories) lurking in you, other things can make them degranulate, such as getting too cold or too hot (no hot baths!), estrogen (kind of hard to avoid), traffic fumes and various other things which I am afraid I cannot remember.
This is a bit of a hasty brain dump but if you rummage on google you should be able to fill in some of the gaps. Definitely order that Daosin stuff, it's a lifesaver for me.
zoe.a.m.
Senior Member
- Messages
- 368
- Location
- Olympic Peninsula, Washington
I like this topic! I've been thinking about it a lot lately.
Histamine is a neurotransmitter (pls forgive me if someone else already pointed this out) and I've always wondered, "why only treat serotonin and norepinephrine when it comes to mood?" I'm yet to talk to a health or mental health practitioner who even knows it's a neurotransmitter.
All of this liver talk is making me queasy... and jealous! I know that it would be excellent for me, but I can't bear it, just can't bear it. I'd rather take it ground up as a supplement.
That's cool that an acupuncturist talked to you about blood deficiency Dan! When I heard the low-blood volume findings in CFS, I told my acupuncturist right away and said, "this is awfully literal isn't it?" He agreed that that was quite a finding.
The way that blood deficiency was explained to me (or a part of it) was that it makes you feel like you're lacking a shield, thin-skinned, prone to anxiety, doubt, etc. Interestingly, since I have been getting B12 shots (just began a few weeks ago), I've felt a real difference with these symptoms. I can't make heads or tails of it and I wasn't B12 deficient, just low-normal, and expected nothing but a bad reaction to the shots, but I can't argue with what I've been feeling. It never would have occurred to me to even ask for a B12 test (since I eat a blood-building diet) or think anything of it! I've felt different physically to some degree, but mostly I feel more confidence and less bothered by others. I can't say I'm not irritable--I get pretty fired up about thinking some people are real a&*holes, but I feel okay about it!
Maybe this has had a similar effect for someone else trying B12?
Histamine is a neurotransmitter (pls forgive me if someone else already pointed this out) and I've always wondered, "why only treat serotonin and norepinephrine when it comes to mood?" I'm yet to talk to a health or mental health practitioner who even knows it's a neurotransmitter.
All of this liver talk is making me queasy... and jealous! I know that it would be excellent for me, but I can't bear it, just can't bear it. I'd rather take it ground up as a supplement.
That's cool that an acupuncturist talked to you about blood deficiency Dan! When I heard the low-blood volume findings in CFS, I told my acupuncturist right away and said, "this is awfully literal isn't it?" He agreed that that was quite a finding.
The way that blood deficiency was explained to me (or a part of it) was that it makes you feel like you're lacking a shield, thin-skinned, prone to anxiety, doubt, etc. Interestingly, since I have been getting B12 shots (just began a few weeks ago), I've felt a real difference with these symptoms. I can't make heads or tails of it and I wasn't B12 deficient, just low-normal, and expected nothing but a bad reaction to the shots, but I can't argue with what I've been feeling. It never would have occurred to me to even ask for a B12 test (since I eat a blood-building diet) or think anything of it! I've felt different physically to some degree, but mostly I feel more confidence and less bothered by others. I can't say I'm not irritable--I get pretty fired up about thinking some people are real a&*holes, but I feel okay about it!
Maybe this has had a similar effect for someone else trying B12?
Yes, before I shut myself off from people more there were times when I let irritability get the better of me... I felt so sick and no one seemed to realize how far I had pushed to help them, so I snapped. It was couple years ago, but it still haunts me to think that my calm personality could be so disrupted and make me look bad in a professional situation. I had worked till the point of nearly losing consciousness and I think I really damaged my brain and body, so I had a lot of anger built up. The dangerous idea that CFS is a psychological condition makes you try to hide it and push through physical symptoms, which is a good way to lose track of your mental calm and resent the people around you.
Since I've gotten more ill and have been forced to recognize that I have a physical illness, I get less irritated by large issues, but voices, lights and other irritants all very much agitate and cause a cortisol rush. Overall I don't think my mood is any worse with my more severe illness than it was when I was still energetic enough to keep up the uncomfortable sham of good health. But the neurological effects are more heightened.
I build blood using seaweed broth as well as egg whites and herring. I need some red meat but I don't like to eat it so I get by on as little as I can.
Since I've gotten more ill and have been forced to recognize that I have a physical illness, I get less irritated by large issues, but voices, lights and other irritants all very much agitate and cause a cortisol rush. Overall I don't think my mood is any worse with my more severe illness than it was when I was still energetic enough to keep up the uncomfortable sham of good health. But the neurological effects are more heightened.
I build blood using seaweed broth as well as egg whites and herring. I need some red meat but I don't like to eat it so I get by on as little as I can.
- Messages
- 37
- Location
- South Carolina
since taking sub-lingual otc B12's every morning before work I do feel less like harming my co-workers...but B vitamins in general tend to make me nauseous/sleepy. Funny, I wonder if nausea may the virus's way to keep stuff out of our bodies that may help us feel better???? There's been many times I tried supplements which I thought may be helpful (B-Vitamins, Iron etc) and get too queasy to continue. Just a thought.
Hiya toldu...
The two supps you mentioned, B vits and iron, very commonly make people feel nauseous if taken without enough food. If you have them at the end of a full meal including some fat and protein you should be OK.
Having said that, I have also wondered about your "protective nausea" theory. When you're pregnant you feel sick when you go near any smell, and it seems to be in proportion to how toxic it is/how bad your own body is at eliminating that particular toxin. Lots of pregnant women find their nausea diminishes dramatically when they take vitamin B6 supplements (you can buy B6 lollipops in maternity shops) and since B6 feeds into the methylation cycle... makes you wonder...
The two supps you mentioned, B vits and iron, very commonly make people feel nauseous if taken without enough food. If you have them at the end of a full meal including some fat and protein you should be OK.
Having said that, I have also wondered about your "protective nausea" theory. When you're pregnant you feel sick when you go near any smell, and it seems to be in proportion to how toxic it is/how bad your own body is at eliminating that particular toxin. Lots of pregnant women find their nausea diminishes dramatically when they take vitamin B6 supplements (you can buy B6 lollipops in maternity shops) and since B6 feeds into the methylation cycle... makes you wonder...
Dreambirdie
work in progress
- Messages
- 5,569
- Location
- N. California
Where do you buy this Athene? I tried to find it through iherb, but they have another brand, and it's EXPENSIVE!
I order it online from this pharmacy in Belgium
Apotheker Pol De Saedeleer
BVBA Pharmaceutica
Antwerpsestraat 149
2500 Lier
btw 0404.041.820
Tel:03/480.19.15
info@apotheek-desaedeleer.be
and yes it is hair-raisingly expensive.
I started taking it twice a day but also taking B6 and C every day too. I changed my diet put my rugs and other dust-havens into storage and started machine washing my pillow regularly. Now I only need it on occasions when I deliberately decide to eat something naughty or if I have an unforeseen encounter with someone wearing perfume. So nowadays a box lasts me a long time.
I think it let my body rebuild reserves of diamine oxidase.
Apotheker Pol De Saedeleer
BVBA Pharmaceutica
Antwerpsestraat 149
2500 Lier
btw 0404.041.820
Tel:03/480.19.15
info@apotheek-desaedeleer.be
and yes it is hair-raisingly expensive.
I started taking it twice a day but also taking B6 and C every day too. I changed my diet put my rugs and other dust-havens into storage and started machine washing my pillow regularly. Now I only need it on occasions when I deliberately decide to eat something naughty or if I have an unforeseen encounter with someone wearing perfume. So nowadays a box lasts me a long time.
I think it let my body rebuild reserves of diamine oxidase.
Article on histamine
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/1185
This article lists the foods that fill you with histamine even if you are not allergic to them and lists all the things histamine does to you. It includes a section on its role as a neurotransmitter which makes you terribly irritable or aggressive.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/1185
This article lists the foods that fill you with histamine even if you are not allergic to them and lists all the things histamine does to you. It includes a section on its role as a neurotransmitter which makes you terribly irritable or aggressive.
I am not disagreeing with anything posted in this thread, just adding a few cautions and throwing out some other things to think about.
Even though they seem relaxing, all Anti-histamines are heart stimulants. If you are prone to tachycardias, please be careful. I know from personal experience. Phenergan, a really strong anti-histamine, put me into abnormal heart rhythm on more than one occasion, until my doctor finally told me they are stimulants and I stopped taking it.
Anti-histamines are anti-cholinergic. We desperately need all the choline we can get to help our deteriorating memories. Lack of choline is one of the problems in Alzheimer's, not just beta amyloid plaques. At the very least, I would make sure to take a good choline supplement if taking anti-histamines a lot. Most good B Complex supps. have high dose choline.
Voluntary isolation, at least in fibromyalgia, is thought to be due to the proven low levels of human growth hormone. Somehow, this relates to the overstimulation and leads to a retreat from it. OTC Secretagogues do not work. You need injections if this is your problem, and tests to prove you have it first. Taking growth hormone when you do not need it can cause any cancers you may have to grow. It is also very expensive.
Lastly, I would urge anyone with uncontrollable anger to please get tested for Lyme Disease. My personality went from having no temper at all, to exploding for hours on end over the slightest evidence of anyone else's idiocy. Other Fibro patients I knew kept telling me it was Lyme, but I resisted until it got so bad it scared me and threatened my marriage. To my horror, two Lyme tests were positive. I have no problems with friends or anyone else I like, but we have had to put up a six foot high wood fence all the way around our property because of my run-ins with moronic neighbors. They do not realize the fence is not to protect me from them, it is to protect them from me. Lyme rage has caused several homicides. My blood pressure goes well into stroke range and stays there for days after a two minute argument with one of these types. If Lyme is the cause in your case, proper IV antibiotics for several months can help immensely. Unfortunately, I am allergic to all the ones that work on Lyme and feel certain a stroke from one of these flare ups will kill me some day soon. It is horrible to find yourself yelling and screaming, or even throwing and breaking things. Please don't assume you have to put up with this until all possibilities have been investigated.
with empathy,
klutzo
Even though they seem relaxing, all Anti-histamines are heart stimulants. If you are prone to tachycardias, please be careful. I know from personal experience. Phenergan, a really strong anti-histamine, put me into abnormal heart rhythm on more than one occasion, until my doctor finally told me they are stimulants and I stopped taking it.
Anti-histamines are anti-cholinergic. We desperately need all the choline we can get to help our deteriorating memories. Lack of choline is one of the problems in Alzheimer's, not just beta amyloid plaques. At the very least, I would make sure to take a good choline supplement if taking anti-histamines a lot. Most good B Complex supps. have high dose choline.
Voluntary isolation, at least in fibromyalgia, is thought to be due to the proven low levels of human growth hormone. Somehow, this relates to the overstimulation and leads to a retreat from it. OTC Secretagogues do not work. You need injections if this is your problem, and tests to prove you have it first. Taking growth hormone when you do not need it can cause any cancers you may have to grow. It is also very expensive.
Lastly, I would urge anyone with uncontrollable anger to please get tested for Lyme Disease. My personality went from having no temper at all, to exploding for hours on end over the slightest evidence of anyone else's idiocy. Other Fibro patients I knew kept telling me it was Lyme, but I resisted until it got so bad it scared me and threatened my marriage. To my horror, two Lyme tests were positive. I have no problems with friends or anyone else I like, but we have had to put up a six foot high wood fence all the way around our property because of my run-ins with moronic neighbors. They do not realize the fence is not to protect me from them, it is to protect them from me. Lyme rage has caused several homicides. My blood pressure goes well into stroke range and stays there for days after a two minute argument with one of these types. If Lyme is the cause in your case, proper IV antibiotics for several months can help immensely. Unfortunately, I am allergic to all the ones that work on Lyme and feel certain a stroke from one of these flare ups will kill me some day soon. It is horrible to find yourself yelling and screaming, or even throwing and breaking things. Please don't assume you have to put up with this until all possibilities have been investigated.
with empathy,
klutzo
- Messages
- 37
- Location
- South Carolina
Athene, thanks for the article on histamine, makes alota sense and reminds me why I do not get along well with wine and cheese Is this also why MAOI antidepressants and these histamine rich foods don't mix?
Is this also why MAOI antidepressants and these histamine rich foods don't mix?
- Messages
- 37
- Location
- South Carolina
klutzo, love your signature!!!!! Lyme is a suspect in multiple symptoms including anxiety/anger/irritability. My symptoms increased during adolescence and I vividly remember nasty flea bites, tick bites and even one spider bite which left a scar. Sometimes I even wonder if I may have picked up worms/parasites from numerous pets. I had a dog die to due to parvo infection. These things were so commonplace living out in the country, we never followed up with docs. As a teen my first symptom was severe insomnia and excessive daytime sleepiness. Family members chocked it up to me being "lazy" and I became dependent on the anti-histamine Benadryl to help with sleep. My struggle with Sleep is definetly the hallmark of My ME symptoms. Looking back it does seem there have been lasting neurological, mood and energy problems. I have never been tested for lyme or parasite infection and would like to be tested but not sure how to go about it. Would it be easier to request testing from a chiro/naturopath or GP?