Has anyone tried cocaine for their ME/CFS

[Hip]

Not to mention cocaine has more toxic cuts than almost any other drug... stuff like levimasole (veterinary dewormer)

It's not inconceivable the levamisole adulterant in cocaine might actually be the factor that cured ME/CFS in this person taking cocaine.

There is one ME/CFS patient on this forum who has used levamisole for years as a daily immunomodulatory treatment. He claims major benefits from it, though he said it took a long time for the benefits to manifest.

Levamisole is a Th2 to Th1 immune shifter, just like oxymatrine and inosine, the immunomodulators used for ME/CFS. Maybe by snorting levamisole + cocaine you are getting lots of this immunomodulator into the brain.

Levamisole can cause agranulocytosis (lowered white blood cells), and the FDA thus banned human use, but it can be obtained from online pharmacies.

 

[TiredBill]

It's not inconceivable the levamisole adulterant in cocaine might actually be the factor that cured ME/CFS in this person taking cocaine.

There is one ME/CFS patient on this forum who has used levamisole for years as a daily immunomodulatory treatment. He claims major benefits from it, though he said it took a long time for the benefits to manifest.

Levamisole is a Th2 to Th1 immune shifter, just like oxymatrine and inosine, the immunomodulators used for ME/CFS. Maybe by snorting levamisole + cocaine you are getting lots of this immunomodulator into the brain.

Levamisole can cause agranulocytosis (lowered white blood cells), and the FDA thus banned human use, but it can be obtained from online pharmacies.

The claim was that a single use of cocaine caused ME/CFS, not that it cured it. I'd view either proposition with a grain of salt.

It is true that the crash that people who use cocaine experience over the medium term does resemble crashes many feel from ME/CFS. I think it would only compound the horror of living with this illness.

Bill

 

[Hip]

The claim was that a single use of cocaine caused ME/CFS, not that it cured it.

That's not what @Captain John wrote here:

I was in contact with a guy who said he cured his CFS with cocain, but when my questions got to intense I lost him.

@Captain John did not say whether it was a single dose or regular use of cocaine.

 

[frozenborderline]

@Hip that's interesting. I've seen figures of up to 80% of cocaine being cut with levimasole before leaving south america, so the theory that levimasole was responsible is not that crazy.

 

[Captain John]

That's not what @Captain John wrote here:


@Captain John did not say whether it was a single dose or regular use of cocaine.

It's not inconceivable the levamisole adulterant in cocaine might actually be the factor that cured ME/CFS in this person taking cocaine.

There is one ME/CFS patient on this forum who has used levamisole for years as a daily immunomodulatory treatment. He claims major benefits from it, though he said it took a long time for the benefits to manifest.

Levamisole is a Th2 to Th1 immune shifter, just like oxymatrine and inosine, the immunomodulators used for ME/CFS. Maybe by snorting levamisole + cocaine you are getting lots of this immunomodulator into the brain.

Levamisole can cause agranulocytosis (lowered white blood cells), and the FDA thus banned human use, but it can be obtained from online pharmacies.

I did not see this message! It is interesting. I lost him before I could ask him how long and how much he had taken unfortunatly..

 

[Learner1]

Please, can we be done with this topic? I'm all in favor of exploring all options and looking for mechanisms of how they work, but as has been said, use of cocaine is dangerous, risky, and can kill.

It causes damage to neurons and mitochondria:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23542814/

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/hep.510250221

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0197018615300759

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2017/3034245/

 

[frozenborderline]

I did not see this message! It is interesting. I lost him before I could ask him how long and how much he had taken unfortunatly..

I think it goes without saying that doing cocaine because one of the cutting agents may help your condition is pretty dumb. Probably better to try and source pure levimasole if you are really that interested in trying it but iirc levimasole is not totally benign either.

 

[Wayne]

There are times when you get really desperate

Hi @Captain John,

I think you've hit on a key point. Desperation is an emotion I assiduously monitor within myself, and continually try to stay aware of. Some of the worst decisions I've made in my life (in all walks) stemmed from a strong feeling of desperation. Just not conducive to a good decision making process.

I now often take my decision making process to a place of nature, laying under some trees on the grass for a while, just absorbing the peace of tranquility they generously offer. Even if I don't necessarily come up with a strong inclination toward a decision one way or another, I at least get myself more centered and grounded. Which I believe dramatically increases the odds of making better decisions going forward. Plus, I enjoy that process a whole lot more! ​

 

[TiredBill]

That's not what @Captain John wrote here:


@Captain John did not say whether it was a single dose or regular use of cocaine.

I stand corrected. Sorry, I missed that one.

It is hard for me to imagine a more ill-advised way to deal with ME/CFS. It would be a guaranteed disaster.

Bill

 

[BadBadBear]

I think part of my own over-reaction to this thread is certainly because I truly HAVE been desperate enough to honestly wonder if I'd prefer to be a meth head up vacuuming my house at 2 in the morning to being a CFS'er who can't get out of bed all day. One time I did half way jokingly (half way not) asked my doctor if she'd prescribe me cocaine.

I absolutely understand the desire to try anything possible to get better and I am sorry if I came across too strong about it, @Captain John . My inner conversations that I've had with myself also get quite passionate about it at times.

 

[Hip]

It is hard for me to imagine a more ill-advised way to deal with ME/CFS. It would be a guaranteed disaster.

The legality aside, I am not sure if cocaine would be that much different from using similar norepinephrine stimulants like Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine) or Ritalin (methylphenidate) as a ME/CFS treatment, and some studies and ME/CFS doctors have found these may be helpful:

Stimulants For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

Although I suspect cocaine might be more addictive than amphetamine or methylphenidate, which might be an issue.



Personally I don't like stimulants at all; when I briefly experimented with these decades ago as a teenager, I found that in spite of the temporary feel-good factor they gave at a party, etc, I would always feel bleakly depressed for several days to a week afterwards, as if these drugs had depleted all the happiness chemicals in my brain. So after trying these a few times, I never touched them again.

Plus I never liked the false sense of social confidence stimulants would give; I think if you are a young person and you want to gain social confidence, that is best be done as part of the natural growing up process and character-building process, rather than artificially boosting confidence by artificial chemical means.

Coffee is fine though; but coffee works on the adenosine system, rather than the norepinephrine system which amphetamines and cocaine act on.

 

[Captain John]

The legality aside, I am not sure if cocaine would be that much different from using similar norepinephrine stimulants like Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine) or Ritalin (methylphenidate) as a ME/CFS treatment, and some studies and ME/CFS doctors have found these may be helpful:

Stimulants For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

Although I suspect cocaine might be more addictive than amphetamine or methylphenidate, which might be an issue.



Personally I don't like stimulants at all; when I briefly experimented with these decades ago as a teenager, I found that in spite of the temporary feel-good factor they gave at a party, etc, I would always feel bleakly depressed for several days to a week afterwards, as if these drugs had depleted all the happiness chemicals in my brain. So after trying these a few times, I never touched them again.

Plus I never liked the false sense of social confidence stimulants would give; I think if you are a young person and you want to gain social confidence, that is best be done as part of the natural growing up process and character-building process, rather than artificially boosting confidence by artificial chemical means.

Coffee is fine though; but coffee works on the adenosine system, rather than the norepinephrine system which amphetamines and cocaine act on.

If I was young and had energy to see with other people, I would also choose coffee, but I'm 30 and have not seen any people for 6 months now. I've just recently joined this forum and have read a few threads and you seem to have profound knowledge in this area. May I ask what your acedemic background is and if you have M.E.? Pure curiosity

 

[Hip]

May I ask what your acedemic background is and if you have M.E.? Pure curiosity

I did not have any background in biology or medical science, but started reading lots about the medical research into ME/CFS. I have had ME/CFS for around 12 years now, and being unable to work, I have had the time to do this reading, picking up bits of knowledge over the years.

But there are quite a few patients on this forum who have slowly learnt aspects medical science in a similar way, and patients on this forum who were doctors or medical researchers before they became ill. So you can learn a lot by reading and getting involved in the discussions here. My first degree was in a science subject though (maths + physics), so I guess that helps as a foundation.

 

[Captain John]

I did not have any background in biology or medical science, but started reading lots about the medical research into ME/CFS. I have ME/CFS for around 12 years now, and being unable to work, I have had the time to do this reading, picking up bits of knowledge over the years.

But there are quite a few patients on this forum who have slowly learnt aspects medical science in a similar way, and patients on this forum who were doctors or medical researchers before they became ill. So you can learn a lot by reading and getting involved in the discussions here. My first degree was in a science subject though (maths + physics), so I guess that helps as a foundation.

I am a lawyer so it has taken some time to get into the biological aspect. Fortunately, things are getting faster now. It's really a strong forum! I am from Denmark where CFS is considered to be a mental illness only, so it took some time to find some reasonable answers. If you have been ill for 12 years, you must have tried almost everything. So tell me this, how do you keep your head high?

 

[Hip]

If you have been ill for 12 years, you must have tried almost everything. So tell me this, how do you keep your head high?

I am still trying different supplements, drugs and treatment protocols, and there are still treatments I have yet to try; I find that researching into a new treatment and then trying it creates a sense of optimism, and that helps keep morale up.

 

[Captain John]

I am still trying different supplements, drugs and treatment protocols, and there are still treatments I have yet to try; I find that researching into a new treatment and then trying it creates a sense of optimism, and that helps keep morale up.

I will try to take it with me, thank you!

 

[frozenborderline]

I have been reading more about this stuff recently. It seems like coca tea, despite having cocaine in it, is far less cardiotoxic---perhaps not even cardiotoxic at all. This may be because of the other alkaloids in it being protective.

If you are going to do anything, I would say go for coca instead of cocaine. I'm not going to post sites here, as that may break forum rules, but you can find non-decocainized coca on some sites that ship to the US

 

[frozenborderline]

The legality aside, I am not sure if cocaine would be that much different from using similar norepinephrine stimulants like Adderall (amphetamine/dextroamphetamine) or Ritalin (methylphenidate) as a ME/CFS treatment, and some studies and ME/CFS doctors have found these may be helpful:

Stimulants For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

Ritalin (Methylphenidate) For Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia

Although I suspect cocaine might be more addictive than amphetamine or methylphenidate, which might be an issue.



Personally I don't like stimulants at all; when I briefly experimented with these decades ago as a teenager, I found that in spite of the temporary feel-good factor they gave at a party, etc, I would always feel bleakly depressed for several days to a week afterwards, as if these drugs had depleted all the happiness chemicals in my brain. So after trying these a few times, I never touched them again.

Plus I never liked the false sense of social confidence stimulants would give; I think if you are a young person and you want to gain social confidence, that is best be done as part of the natural growing up process and character-building process, rather than artificially boosting confidence by artificial chemical means.

Coffee is fine though; but coffee works on the adenosine system, rather than the norepinephrine system which amphetamines and cocaine act on.

What’s especially odd for me is that pre illness onset I was prescribed stimulants for adhd and they worked great! Almost no side effects, paradoxical relaxation and focus. after I got Lyme which triggered my illness I started being hypersensitive to the bad effects of atoms while being insensitive to the good effects. It was almost like I had a shift toward only getting norepinephrine effects and less of the dopaminergic effects. I also could see it having something to do with oxidative stress. Cfs May be due to oxidative stress , and whatever triggers the illness may somehow lower the threshold for oxidative stress somehow ... stimulants are already known to produce oxidative stress at higher doses, but this effect may be magnified by cfs. Still curious about why coca tea is not cardiotoxic if cocaine is , though , and don’t say “dose” haha, I find that an altogether unconvincing explanation. The other alkaloids must confer some kind of protection

 

[Hip]

It was almost like I had a shift toward only getting norepinephrine effects and less of the dopaminergic effects.

That's interesting, that might be telling us something about what's going in ME/CFS.

 

[frozenborderline]

That's interesting, that might be telling us something about what's going in ME/CFS.

yes I’ve thought that several of my responses to drugs that changed the more I got I’ll might shed some light on pathology. Another one is that I started experiencing weird hangovers from gabaergics that are fairly mild , like phenibut. All my phenibut usage was post-lyme but it’s only when I started getting a lot worse that I started having odd next day effects that I think was glutamate excitotoxicity. I wouldn’t get a headache so much as this sort of aggressive storm f brain fog combined with an odd sensation that was constant every time I had these hangovers. And the feeling of “restless legs” except in my head/all over. Also this sensation was only relieved by gabapentin, or ketamine