Has anyone tried cocaine for their ME/CFS

[MEWarrior]

no, I've chewed coca (with baking soda to help extract the active ingredient) at sea level and gotten quite the effect

Interesting. Thus proving the saying, “I learn something new every day.”

 

[frozenborderline]

Interesting. Thus proving the saying, “I learn something new every day.”

Well, I know it contains some compounds that affect blood glucose level, which may be more apparent at altitude, but it also contains cocaine... which doesn't need to be at altitude to work

 

[MEWarrior]

Well, I know it contains some compounds that affect blood glucose level, which may be more apparent at altitude, but it also contains cocaine... which doesn't need to be at altitude to work

Indeed, the coca leaf does contain stimulants. However, it is not cocaine, per se, as that is a byproduct of chemical combinations. There are many scientific reports on this very topic; namely, World Health Organization and others.

 

[frozenborderline]

Indeed, the coca leaf does contain stimulants. However, it is not cocaine, per se, as that is a byproduct of chemical combinations. There are many scientific reports on this very topic; namely, World Health Organization and others.

No, it definitely contains cocaine. Cocaine production isn't synthesis, generally (the exception being pharmaceutical cocaine) it's extraction. Yes several compounds are used in cocaine production, but these are used to extract cocaine from the coca plants using solvents, etc... I believe it's an acid base extraction.

However, it's always been a mystery to me why coca, which contains cocaine, is generally not associated with cardiotoxicity, whereas cocaine is. I think it could be the combination of other alkaloids and nutrients in the coca leaf, but I'm not sure.

 

[Captain John]

Have you read the withdrawl symptoms? "The symptoms of cocaine withdrawal (also known as comedown or crash) range from moderate to severe: dysphoria, depression, anxiety, psychological and physical weakness, pain, and compulsive cravings."

Can you stay high enough all the time to avoid the withdrawl symptoms and yet still avoid heart and brain damage? Can you avoid addiction?

Sometimes I'm jealous of the meth addicts I know when they go through the early phase and look really thin and have all that endless energy. Then their teeth fall out and they look 100 years old. Then because of addiction their lives get ruined. If you decide to try this experiment, have a good honest look at the downsides before you jump in. Talk to an addict or two.

I've definitely considered the consequences, but the consequences you're talking about are very large doses of long-term consumption. Cocaine users and weekend users can easily use between 1-5 g cocaine a day. I'm talking about using maybe 0.1g over five days and then stop. And no in those doses I'm not afraid of addiction I do not want to defend cocaine consumption, I know what it can do to people. Thank you very much for your input

 

[frozenborderline]

I've definitely considered the consequences, but the consequences you're talking about are very large doses of long-term consumption. Cocaine users and weekend users can easily use between 1-5 g cocaine a day. I'm talking about using maybe 0.1g over five days and then stop. And no in those doses I'm not afraid of addiction I do not want to defend cocaine consumption, I know what it can do to people. Thank you very much for your input

even occasional cocaine consumption is cardiotoxic even for healthy people, doing damage to small vessels that doesn't show up on a normal echocardiogram. People vastly underestimate the damage cocaine does, perhaps because it is seen as a "high class" drug, barely even a hard drug. But it's actually worse than heroin and amphetamines imo.

If you're willing to take risks, why not try T3, or triac? probably much more likely to help you

 

[Captain John]

Indeed, the coca leaf does contain stimulants. However, it is not cocaine, per se, as that is a byproduct of chemical combinations. There are many scientific reports on this very topic; namely, World Health Organization and others.

Indeed, the coca leaf does contain stimulants. However, it is not cocaine, per se, as that is a byproduct of chemical combinations. There are many scientific reports on this very topic; namely, World Health Organization and others.

It is a very interesting subject. They have now legalized cocaine leaves in columbia now and it seems to have a lot of healing effects. They use it in cooking and consider it a superfood. I would like to try cocaine instead, because I think it's more sure, but I'm afraid the effect is not powerful enough. Especially regarding cocaine's ability to inhibit B-cell antibodies, I do not think leafy is sufficient. Do you have a link to the reports you're talking about?

 

[frozenborderline]

It is a very interesting subject. They have now legalized cocaine leaves in columbia now and it seems to have a lot of healing effects. They use it in cooking and consider it a superfood. I would like to try cocaine instead, because I think it's more sure, but I'm afraid the effect is not powerful enough. Especially regarding cocaine's ability to inhibit B-cell antibodies, I do not think leafy is sufficient. Do you have a link to the reports you're talking about?

these reports don't exist, coca contains cocaine as well as other alkaloids.

 

[Martial]

It is a very interesting subject. They have now legalized cocaine leaves in columbia now and it seems to have a lot of healing effects. They use it in cooking and consider it a superfood. I would like to try cocaine instead, because I think it's more sure, but I'm afraid the effect is not powerful enough. Especially regarding cocaine's ability to inhibit B-cell antibodies, I do not think leafy is sufficient. Do you have a link to the reports you're talking about?

I would be very careful man, you don't want to damage your health any worse then the things you are already dealing with. There are many other treatments, even out of the ordinary things you can try as others have mentioned before trying something like cocaine. Also aren't people with ME/CFS far more sensitive to the effects of supplements, drugs, and other things? I highly doubt based on whatever studies or research you might have found that it is in any way shape or form worth the risk for a reward. There are many other safer and well tested options you can try.

 

[Kenshin]

Coca contains cocaine as well as other alkaloids.

The cocaine content of chewed coca leaf is far lower than what the average snorter would snort.
Cocaine is no more toxic than caffeine (not saying that's good as they're both toxic.)
The stimulation produced by coca tea is similar to that of green tea, even milder if you are sensative to caffeine.
The effects of coca leaf are buffered/modulated by the other alkaloids in the leaf.
There really isn't a big cardiotoxic risk associated with coca leaves.

 

[Kenshin]

Don't get your hopes up though... It's another stimulant, like tea, coffee or ginseng, or whatever bitter plant was in the vicinity that our ancestors messed with at the time.
They're stimulants, super foods, whatever, good for having fun in the sun, or staying up all night studying, not usually one shot disease curer's.

 

[frozenborderline]

The cocaine content of chewed coca leaf is far lower than what the average snorter would snort.
Cocaine is no more toxic than caffeine (not saying that's good as they're both toxic.)
The stimulation produced by coca tea is similar to that of green tea, even milder if you are sensative to caffeine.
The effects of coca leaf are buffered/modulated by the other alkaloids in the leaf.
There really isn't a big cardiotoxic risk associated with coca leaves.

I didn't say chewing coca was a big risk. However the idea that cocaine is no more toxic than caffeine is totally ridiculous and I don't know where you get it. They have extremely different properties. Even if you dig really hard for negative health outcomes in caffeine studies you won't find many, the overall evidence is generally equivocal, although I personally lean on the side of it being healthy, vitamin-like substance.

However, cocaine is cardiotoxic in a number of ways which don't apply to caffeine. It is a sodium and potassium channel blocker (that's why it works as local anaesthetic), it causes increased clotting while also causing coronary vasospasms, it dramatically increases blood pressure, causes dramatic catecholamine increase, also does damage to small vessels with only occasional use. In fact, people speculate that it is directly toxic to heart tissue and causes scarring upon impact (meaning circulating blood levels could cause death to heart tissue). Cocaine is one of the few drugs where I think all the negativity about it is justified

I know that this mostly doesn't apply to coca, but I'm not sure we know why. My theory is that some of the other allkaloids in coca are so protective that they make all the difference.

I have chewed coca, which can be up to 1% cocaine, and if you chew it right (for awhile, with a base to extract the active ingredient) you can get doses of up to 40-50 mg of cocaine from not chewing that much coca. For totally pure cocaine that's actually a solid dose. I can attest that you can definitely get a "high" from coca.
Intense coca users who chew all day are certainly consuming a decent amount of cocaine, yet they don't seem to have the same issues that someone using even small amounts of daily cocaine would have.

It's not only attributable to dose, so it's very interesting. I wonder if it's partially genetic. Most of the studies on coca use have been on peruvian indians.

 

[TiredBill]

I've never seen a person die from drinking coffee. I profoundly wish that wasn't the case with cocaine.

Even putting the risk of death aside, using cocaine is playing with fire. It is highly addictive and destroys lives.

Bad idea.

Bill

 

[BadBadBear]

I've definitely considered the consequences, but the consequences you're talking about are very large doses of long-term consumption. Cocaine users and weekend users can easily use between 1-5 g cocaine a day. I'm talking about using maybe 0.1g over five days and then stop. And no in those doses I'm not afraid of addiction I do not want to defend cocaine consumption, I know what it can do to people. Thank you very much for your input

Most of my friends in high school and college did drugs (lucky for me I was too poor to afford drugs, but I was around it alot), and every single one of them thought they could control it and it would not control them. I tried co... once and decided never again, because I knew it would own me. Several of the people I knew that were into it ended up dead at a young age.

Maybe you can be that one person who can actually not let it take over your life and ruin it. If it makes you feel well but you need increasing doses, you will end up addicted. If it makes you feel unwell, then you may not become addicted but may end up worse off for using it. I personally think this is a crazy idea.

Try some legal and less addictive, less dangerous stimulants first and test the waters before you jump in.

 

[TiredBill]

The thing about cocaine is that initially (for "normal" people at least) the initial reaction is one of euphoria. People feel great. Glamorous even. However, that euphoric feeling soon wears off. It is replaced by increasingly bad feelings when one comes off the high. Bad feelings that can only be mitigated by doing more.

The pleasure of using the drug soon disappears and using becomes a method of pain-avoidance to drive off the depression and bad crashes that are sure to follow.

For a person who is already prone to energy crashes, as I am with ME/CFS, I can't imagine compounding the problem with a drug whose medium-term use (it happens pretty quickly) causes users to crash physically, mentally, and emotionally.

The good feelings are very fleeting and are replaced by paranoia, depression, anxiety, and fatigue.

I am just at the age where I saw many members of my generation (many, many, many, friends) whose lives were profoundly disrupted by this drug. It turned happy and generous people into paranoid and unstable individuals who became preoccupied with getting their next bump to drive off the despair of the cocaine blues.

Trust me when I say this is not a drug to mess around with.

Bill

 

[Wayne]

I would really like your thougts on this, and hear if you know anybody who have tried this.

Many years ago, I met a man whose onset of ME/CFS started with a single use of cocaine. He'd never tried it before, and never tried it again. But his ME was profoundly debilitating and long-standing.​

 

[Captain John]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate your honesty and I think I'm postponing the project for now. There are some strong arguments and there are some things I have not tried yet. There are times when you get really desperate and can not see the whole picture. I will consider whether coca leaves can do anything for me. Thanks again, it's a strong forum

 

[frozenborderline]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate your honesty and I think I'm postponing the project for now. There are some strong arguments and there are some things I have not tried yet. There are times when you get really desperate and can not see the whole picture. I will consider whether coca leaves can do anything for me. Thanks again, it's a strong forum

Why don't you look at some of the recent threads that might give you ideas of experimental things to try?

the threads on thyroid, purinergic signalling, and also @Hip 's thread on substances to prevent PEM are all good starts. If you want to take risks, take them, but just make them actually worth it.

 

[Captain John]

If you want to take risks, take them, but just make them actually worth it.

Haha, yes okay. I will make sure I do not kill myself in vain

 

[Captain John]

Why don't you look at some of the recent threads that might give you ideas of experimental things to try?

the threads on thyroid, purinergic signalling, and also @Hip 's thread on substances to prevent PEM are all good starts. If you want to take risks, take them, but just make them actually worth it.

And thanks for the tips !