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Has anyone heard of blood autovaccines to cure Lyme or ME/CFS?

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Hi @Living Dead ......over the years we've had this show up now and again. Why? I don't know. I personally believe there is more than one virus that causes ME, FM, plus other reasons for getting ME to begin with.

IF yours is caused by Lyme Disease (say), then it's possible that your wife was also bitten and hers is now showing up. Like I said, I think a number of things are implicated.

This is very difficult for both of you, I'm sure. Is one of you more capable than the other? Have your groceries delivered and, if possible, someone to cook for you. I find these to be particularly hard tasks, as well as cleaning. My husband still does the cooking, but when he can't we'll definitely pay for someone....perhaps our daughter, even. She's good enough to have her own catering business and our son-in-law can make a wonderful smoked salmon. Do you very best to help each other out....Get plenty of rest, eat nutritious food and take very special care of each other. Yours, Lenora.
 

anne_likes_red

Senior Member
Messages
1,103
The process in preparing the autovaccine sounds doable as well, its just blood and sterile water and salt and a bit of rocking the solution about.

https://www.artofmedicure.eu/en/autovaccine-therapy/main-article-autovaccine-therapy

Alas you can't contact Dr Kunst because he died October 6th, 2021 so what we have is the website and its articles but it doesn't look like there is a treatment option here anymore other than following their procedures yourself.

Under the Contact tab it says... (Bolding mine!)

"Unfortunately, we have to inform you on this page that doctor Kunst passed away on October 6, 2021. It is therefore no longer possible to make an appointment.
The legacy of doctor Kunst, AV therapy, will be preserved, specifically on this website, where all information can be found.
There are doctors who can perform the therapy. In consultation with them, we will share their contact information here at a later date."

So it could be worth keeping an eye on the website or sending an enquiry at some point.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,869
By an amazing piece of Google-fu, @Cipher managed to find Dr Leendert Kunst's original instructions for performing this blood autovaccine, along with a link to an unlisted YouTube video detailing the process step by step:

Autovaccine therapy Instruction video — Dr Leendert Kunst

There is also a video here of a patient Marco cured of Lyme disease via Dr Leendert Kunst's autovaccines. This page on the late Dr Kunst's website also details Marco's Lyme recovery.

Instructions for preparing the Autovaccine

Protocol published in Beltrum, June 2021.

The following protocol has been made to explain how to prepare the Autovaccine for use in the Autovaccine Therapy™ as conceived and developed by doctor L Kunst (MD).

The environment for the preparation process should be hygienically clean and the preparation method must strictly comply with this protocol.

NOTE: Should the practitioner have access to an incubator, it is recommended to warm all the requirements to 37°C before commencing with the removal of blood from the patient. The period of gentle rocking should also take place in the incubator. This is not essential, but it appears to improve the effectiveness of the reaction and is more comfortable for the patient.

You can see a video instruction movie over here.



List of Requirements

Personal Protection Equipment
  • Sterile medical gloves
  • Mask and/or perspex face protection
  • White coat
  • Hygienic rubbish containers for needles, syringes, vacutainers, paper and plastic
For removing 3 ml blood from the patient
  • Safety Lock blood collection set + Luer adapter 21G
  • (vacutainer system + heparinized)
  • 1 x vacutainer Sodium heparin 10 ml green cap;
  • Tourniquet, cotton buds, iodine, plasters
For preparing the Autovaccine
  • 1 x bottle of iodine in alcohol (for sterilizing) or hospital grade alcohol.
  • 1x ampule 10 ml of Fresenius sterile water for injection
  • 1x sterile ampule of Fresenius natrium chloride 10% solution
  • 2 x 10 ml Luer lock syringes
  • 1x 1 ml tuberculine Luer lock syringe (or similar)
  • 1x yellow code injection needle – for autovaccine preparation (0,9x25mm)
  • 1x purple code injection needle – for injection into the patient (0,55 x 25mm)
  • 1x female/female connector for 2 syringes
  • 2 x three-way red Discofix taps or 2 sterile caps to be placed on the water and the saline solution containers for when more than one patient is treated that day.
  • Stainless steel artery clamp to hygienically mount the connectors onto the syringes.
Rocker machine (e.g. Edmund Bühler) to gently shake the autovaccine preparation.

Optional:
  • Incubator (strongly recommended)


Method
  1. Use the 10 ml luer lock syringe to remove 3 ml of sterile water for injection from the 10 ml container (no needle required). Disconnect the syringe and attach the female/female connector – leaving it partly inside the packaging for safety and place in an incubator at 37oC (if available). Otherwise just place carefully on the work surface.
  2. Using the normal procedure for taking a venous blood sample, remove 3 ml of blood using a heparinized vacutainer.
  3. Take the second 10 ml luer lock syringe and attach the yellow code needle (0,9 x 25 mm). Use this to remove 2 ml of blood from one of the vacutainers. Leave the needle in the vacutainer cap and use the artery clamp to disconnect the needle from the syringe. Dispose of the vacutainer with the remaining blood and the needle.
  4. Connect the syringe with 2 ml blood to the syringe with water using the female/female connector. Go not mix yet. If you have an incubator, at this stage you should put the coupled syringes in the incubator at 37oC for 10 minutes.
  5. Take the connected syringes and mix the two components by alternately pushing the plunger from one syringe into the other and then back again. Pump 12 times each way as is shown in total 24 times. Leaving the total fluid of 5 ml in one syringe at the end.
  6. Disconnect the empty syringe from the connector temporarily. Draw in the plunger of the full syringe to fill up the remaining volume of the syringe containing the blood mixture with air. Reconnect the empty syringe.
  7. Place the syringes still connected to each other on the rocker apparatus (in the incubator – if available) and rock gently for 1 hour and 15 minutes.
  8. Meanwhile, take the 1 ml luer lock syringe and remove 0.3 ml of sterile saline solution from the Fresenius container. Leave the syringe attached to the container until ready for use (in the incubator if available).
  9. Once the 1 hour and 15 minutes is elapsed, remove the connected 10 ml syringes from the rocker. Disconnect the empty 10 ml syringe from the full one leaving the connector on the syringe with blood. Take the 1 ml luer lock syringe with saline and disconnect from the container. Fix the 1 ml luer lock syringe with saline to the blood syringe via the connector. Mix the two syringes thoroughly as in step 5. Twelve times each way, 24 pumps in total – leaving all the blood mixture at the end in the 10 ml syringe. At this stage the air should be removed from the syringe. This is now the autovaccine.
  10. Disconnect the female/female connector with the 1 ml luer lock syringe from the syringe with the blood mixture and attach instead the purple injection needle (0,55 x 25 mm).
  11. The autovaccine preparation can now be subcutaneously injected into the patient’s abdomen. (see notes below)
  12. The autovaccine is NOT designed to be stored.


Essential notes for future treatments

NOTE 1: Depending on the reaction of the patient to his or her own personal vaccine, the volumes of the ingredients can be increased or decreased. For example, it can be made stronger to induce more reaction by increasing the water to 4 ml and the blood to 3 ml and the 10% saline solution to 0.4 ml. The ratio can go one step higher if necessary, to 5 ml water + 4 ml blood + 10% NaCl 0.5 ml. For this volume of fluid, it is recommended to use larger syringes for a more effective pumping action.

NOTE 2: the volume of water must always be higher than the volume of blood.

NOTE 3: the ratio water to saline must be 90% : 10% to make it an isotonic solution.

The formula is H2O : NaCl = 1 : 0.1
 
Last edited:

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,869
His website also says:

"It has to be noted that the desired result of autovaccine therapy can be hindered by all sorts of external factors such as illness caused by genetic disorders, high stress levels, hormonal imbalance, gut dysbiosis, dental infections, heavy metal poisoning, certain medications, etc."

That could just be speculation on Dr Kunst's part, rather than an empirical fact. When his therapy does not work for a patient, he may just assume other factors were hindering success.


Incidentally we don't actually know the success rate for Dr Kunst's blood autologous autovaccine for the various illnesses he said they were useful for. There is just one anecdotal report of a Lyme disease cure on his website, and no reports for ME/CFS patients.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
That could just be speculation on Dr Kunst's part, rather than an empirical fact. When his therapy does not work for a patient, he may just assume other factors were hindering success.


Incidentally we don't actually know the success rate for Dr Kunst's blood autologous autovaccine for the various illnesses he said they were useful for. There is just one anecdotal report of a Lyme disease cure on his website, and no reports for ME/CFS patients.
As some car commercials here in the US state, "Your mileage may vary..."
 

Living Dead

Senior Member
Messages
199
Thanks for the instructions and video. Out of curiosity, is it possible to know how he found them? I thought I was good at googling.

Also, any ideas for a cheap rocker machine substitute? Real machines have "medical grade pricing".
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,749
Location
Alberta
Also, any ideas for a cheap rocker machine substitute?

If you have a reasonably handy friend, it should be a fairly simple project. A small geared motor driving a crank should do it. Other possibilities abound, such as a water container and float with some method of switching which inflow/outflow. Maybe there's a cheap baby rocker on the market.
 

Nuno

Senior Member
Messages
112
Could this be used? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001430983330.html
"Three Dimensional Orbital Shaker Mixer Workable in Incubation or Cold Room Oscillator Orbital Rotator Lab Equipment"

Am I correct in thinking that the purpose of the rocker is solely to keep the particles afloat?
Are you on the MECFS research discord? We’ve got 3 people (including myself) that are starting this treatment, and we gathered all important information in there
 
Messages
6
Are you on the MECFS research discord? We’ve got 3 people (including myself) that are starting this treatment, and we gathered all important information in there
Could you send me an invite to the discord? Thanks!