Hard time getting out of bed, any help?

[peggy-sue]

"Bottom line, if it feels good, sauna away. If it doesn't, don't!"

I agree, wholeheartedly, Ema!

(atm, I'm sweating so much in bed at night I don't need a sauna to encourage it...)

 

[sregan]

I would not go anywhere near a sauna - heat exhausts me and humidity is about the worst thing there is for symptoms flaring and passing out.
"Toxins" getting sweated out the skin is just a load of nonsense, buzz-words and psuedoscience.

Peggy Sue, I completely disagree here. The skin is your largest organ and without a doubt is very valuable in excretion of wastes, urea and ammonia at the least (if you want to call that a toxin). Part of the value of using the sweat/skin to detox is that it relieves the liver and kidneys of a portion of this burden.

What happens is you loose fluids and vital electrolytes.

I agree with this and add to that minerals. (see: http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemi...omposition-Of-Human-Sweat-Or-Perspiration.htm) Notice how that page also mentions lead which is a heavy metal and a toxin.

Also first responders to the WTC on 9/11 were sweating blue (excess manganese and other heavy metals). The white towels they used in the sauna were stained blue from the manganese leaving their bodies. http://books.google.com/books?id=fE...a=X&ei=gfPeUbXFLsvdqQGjk4C4BQ&ved=0CE4Q6AEwAg

For more on detoxfication:
http://onibasu.com/archives/amc/32213.html

 

[peggy-sue]

You're still not getting me anywhere near a sauna.
And I'm quite happy with my mercury fillings. My Dad put them in. They have sentimental attachment for me.

There used to be a fuss about aluminium build-up in Alzheimer plaques, and Al was a big baddy.
Now, it's believed to be protective!

I do avoid things which might have a heavy build-up (via the food chain) of heavy metals, I do use organic dairy stuff, because it's the fat that pesticides build up in, I avoid aspartame (neurotoxin) and junk food (fructose and hydrogenated fats).

Lichen grows on the trees in my back garden. (which has been completely organic for 22 years) The air here isn't too bad!

 

[sregan]

I'm not a subscriber to the notion of mercury overloads (otherwise dentists and dental assistants would be the worst affected) or to the notion of "detoxification" in general. The liver deals with that sort of thing, not sweat.

How do we know they aren't the worst affected? It seems common knowledge that dentists have the highest suicide rate as a profession:
http://voices.yahoo.com/professions-highest-suicide-rates-dentistry-5855870.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/jobs-commit-suicide-2010-10?op=1

I personally know a dental tech with "Mercury type" health issues for years who only recovered after she underwent Mercury chelation therapy.

Mercury is absolutely emitted from amalgams containing mercury
See this video showing an amalgam tooth emitting vapor:

Perhaps you don't, but do react badly to coffee? We're all different.

yes and that's the point. Those with problems are likely genetically poor detoxifiers. Some will have problems with things like Mercury and other with the exact same exposure won't have any issues.

 

[sregan]

Your comment was valuable indeed, as some people will feel worse on saunas, like those with bad mast cell problems. However, I found necessary to note that coffee its bad for anyone (health nut! hehe) and why saunas can be beneficial for some, or most. About mercury, other metals and toxins (such as xenobiotics or biotoxins) in general, you are very ill informed. They are big players in chronic illness and its a scientifically provable fact and empirically suffered by thousands, some of which get better or cured getting properly detoxed and maintaining the detox pathways (methylation its just one of them) functional.

Thank you for posting this! The earth was thought to be flat at one point, now we laugh at anyone who might think so. People didn't believe in microbes at one point because you couldn't see them. We still have to deal with a lot of that mentality today. If I can't see it or personally experience it then it must not exist.

 

[Beyond]

It calms you down?? It makes me psychotic haha . Yeah, we are from different planets I see, mine its super polluted and so are their inhabitants.

 

[sregan]

Are you taking all four of the Deadlock Quartet? If not, the lack of any of them could cause that severe fatigue.

Freddd, I have not been taking my SMP supps the last few weeks. But that is good to know

 

[peggy-sue]

It's the ADHD problem that means caffeine calms me down.

When I mentioned dentists and dental assistants, I did mean quite specifically as part of the ME population, where they are not highly represented.

Massive mercury build-up will lead to "madness" - as in the Mad Hatter (mercury was used for polishing top hats) and I'm quite aware of Minnimata disease.

I'm not putting anybody down for going for all this detox stuff, if it's what you want and you can afford it and it makes you happy, fine.
It's just not for me.

 

[sregan]

Update: Thank you everyone for the replies. It was a very hard few days but I am feeling much better, I started taking 1-2 caps of activated charcoal per day. I have also been taking my B's separately (no multi's or b-complex). Taking no B12 and using p5p Sparingly. Taking a small dose of B1, B2 and Niacin and a full B5 cap. I didn't have hardly any problem getting out of bed this morning.

I surmise that my using the Steam room 2 days in a row caused a large die off. I usually get a charge out of the steam as Ema mentioned I might be getting a cortisol boost. But not these times. Its been about a year since I've been when I used to have my regular steam room sessions. Helped a ton getting me through the winters.

I do have gut issues which seem to be exaserbated with the use of the high heat. I sometimes will get diarrhea from it (assuming a die off of either bacteria or viral due to increased heat). A couple of times after the sauna I experienced a migraine Aura (similar to this:

) without any migraine headache. Odd but something is happening all the way up to the brain.

On a side note I get a similar GI problem with eating yogurt esp. Greek yogurt. I did some study and there are many who will get diarrhea from Chobani or other greek yogurt. I think a similar die off is occuring form the large amount of probiotic delivered to the intestine.

 

[sregan]

When I mentioned dentists and dental assistants, I did mean quite specifically as part of the ME population, where they are not highly represented.

So how can you know this? Where is this data supporting this?

 

[peggy-sue]

I don't have data on the number of dentists and dental assistants with ME - I have however, met a whole load of MEers from all walks of life over the last 10 years - not one dentist or dental assistant. Plenty of doctors, lawyers, teachers, shop assistants - you name it.
Not one dentist or dental assistant, who have in the past, been demonstrated to have a high mercury build-up in their toenails - so wearing of open-toed shoes got banned in surgeries.

We clearly are coming from completely different points of view, let's please, just agree to disagree.

 

[Beyond]

Yeah, there are points of view and facts. The latter are what counts. People are always messing with "all its relative" but at the end of the day, there are things that are real and things that are not. Its funny how some try to make like we are "believers" when we speak about anti-mainstream stuff like mercury poisoning, there is absolutely NO faith or points of view involved in this, indeed we just have gathered scientific and empirical data that makes obvious the truth.

 

[Ema]

This thread has been edited for off-topic remarks and to remove any personal attacks.

Please take care to keep to the originally intended topic moving forward.

Thanks!

 

[sregan]

I apologize for being off topic. I've been sick for 10 years and know without a doubt there is a definite link to the 10+ Mercury fillings that inhabited my mouth since I was a child, the last 2 of which were just removed last year. I perhaps am a little defensive when the notion that Dental Mercury is safe arises.

Anyway.... My sleep was shorter and interrupted by my barking dog last night. This morning was a little harder to get up than yesterday due to that I believe.

I also experienced quite a bit of anxiety this morning. Sometimes It seems due to my gut. As soon as I have my morning movement it resolves quite a bit. I haven't taken any P5P for the last 2 days and I'm wondering if that has anything to do with it. I don't know which symptom is harder, the lack of will to arise in the AM or the anxiety which also seems to be worse in the AM.

I remember at the height of my symptoms the anxiety was awful. I'm wondering if by taking SMP the process of healing might be a reserve of the process of the illness. I went through the anxiety phase and that issue had pretty much resolved. Did it resolve because I became worse? Not sure.

I also researched the idea that Aluminum is not only safe but beneficial and came up blank. On my hair test Aluminum was my highest excretion. My brain fog, I'm wondering might be the very beginnings of Alzheimers? I did find this recent article which mentions

“It became very, very difficult to get funding to work on aluminum. As soon as you mentioned aluminum, you’re dismissed with ‘Oh, that hypothesis was disproven years ago,’ ” Savory says.“But it has not been disproven. The truth is, nobody knows.”

There is getting to be so much outright misinformation on the web and TV it's hard to sift through and find what is actually true anymore.

 

[peggy-sue]

We can all get a bit short with this disease sometimes - especially when sleep is being a nightmare.


That Aluminium was hypothesised as possibly protective against, rather than the cause of, the plaques was a comment during one of the lectures on Alzheimer's in my 4th year Pharmacology course on Neurodegenerative Disorders at uni. It was made by Prof. David J.K. Balfour (Dundee uni). I would doubt it would have made it into a peer reviewed paper by him, as his area of research is nicotine addiction.

 

[sregan]

I got my p5p today (1/4 of a 25mg sublingual) and feeling a lot better. Anxiety is gone. I think I need to find some balance before I start SMP again. I was wondering if it's possible to start the methylation cycle and it takes off on it's own without supplement support? I've read some here that say when the supps stop the methylation stops. Does that happen pretty much for everyone?

 

[Cath]

Hi, just for the record... I was a dental nurse in my younger days and have been tested by my ME Dr and have very high levels of Methyl Mercury and some other form of Mercury floating around my body.

I have had all my Mercury fillings removed.

 

[peggy-sue]

Thanks for updating the my (obviously) flawed record re. dental staff and ME.
I did know that there had been mercury found in the toenails of dental staff - hence a ban on open-toed shoes,many years ago over here.
Removal of amalgam fillings is not encouraged in the uk - and is horrendously expensive, private treatment only.
And the putting in of ivory coloured ones is also outrageously expensive private work.

 

[dannybex]

I'm not a subscriber to the notion of mercury overloads (otherwise dentists and dental assistants would be the worst affected) or to the notion of "detoxification" in general. The liver deals with that sort of thing, not sweat.

There is clinical research that shows that while the vast majority can handle / process / detox mercury just fine, studies suggest that approximately 2% cannot. Here's just one of those studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22765978

So that could certainly explain why most dentists and dental assistants would not become ill, but that doesn't mean mercury is tolerated by everyone. There are numerous case studies of dentists and dental assistants becoming deathly ill from mercury exposure. Here's one:

http://www.mercuryexposure.info/con...-lorai-ongoing-recovery-from-mercury-exposure

Regarding mercury toxicity overall, I thought this quote was spot on:

“Considering the removal of mercury from pet and childhood vaccines, contact lens solution, mercurochrome, thermometers, cars switches, thermostats and blood pressure machines, one must question what possible benefit a poison like mercury provides in the human body. Is the oral cavity the only safe haven for mercury?”


There are also numerous studies regarding the skin's role in detoxification:

Here are two...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22899900

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18409811

 

[dannybex]

I'm utterly convinced ME is mitochondrial damage/retroviral infection.

I'm not so sure about the retroviral infection part, but I agree that it is probably related to mitochondrial dysfunction.

And I hope I don't come off as Mr. "Mercury is the cause of Everything", but here's a study that links mercury and cadmium with mitochondrial dysfunction:

"

Mercury induces mitochondrial dysfunction with reduction in ATP, depletion of glutathione, and increased lipid peroxidation; increased oxidative stress is common."​

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17405690