Hair Mineral Testing

[Little Bluestem]

I have thought about what model for Christine's work would have made it possible to participate here, ... perhaps Christine could have recommended a hair analysis lab or labs, in which she has no financial interest, suggested that members submit samples directly to the lab and post their results on the forum, and then post her analysis and recommendations for free on the forum.

As has been brought up here before, hair tissue mineral analysis is not a standardized process. Some labs produce more reliable results than others. Even if another good quality lab were chosen, I dont know how comfortable Christine would be working with their results. I have said before that my MD refuses to accept thyroid tests from my local hospital, but makes me drive an hour and a half to get the test done at the hospital where she works. I do not think it unreasonable that Christine wants to use that lab with which is accustomed to work to carry out her study.

What indication do you have that Christine has any financial interest in the lab that she employs?

 

[Mark]

What indication do you have that Christine has any financial interest in the lab that she employs?

I never said she has, I just said that independence from the lab is a requirement for the model I described.

 

[Shellbell]

Db and Brenda, I feel like you do. I am willing to take a chance and try something new that sounds promising to me. Whether is pans out, who knows! But I won't know until I try. My intuition is telling me to give it a shot.

As far as medical studies and research, I only take them with a grain of salt. It is our standard form of medicine that got me to this awful place in my life. I was working a full time job, with some limitations for decades after getting mono in my teens. I was never debilitated, but often needed extra sleep and was sick with sinus and ear infections, colds and flu every year thereafter. It wasn't until my mid 30s that things started to come apart. Believing in my doctors and allopathy, I turned to meds to help my health problems, only to find myself getting worse. Even though still able to carry on with life as normal as I could, I couldn't understand why I was so young and was having so many health problems. It wasn't until having my adverse reaction to a supposedly safe antibiotic that both mine and my family's world came apart. After this, my belief in our standard medical community went south. I feel that they failed me. It is that medical community that wouldn't believe that these medications were making me ill. All they wanted to do was dope me up and give me more meds. I was told by doctor after doctor that antibiotics won't cause these awful symptoms, even with the pharmaceutical side effect sheet in hand. One doctor even threw the sheet at me and told me that these types of things never happen. I am not saying that there aren't any good MDs out there, but they are hard to find now and it takes a lot of searching.

In my journey, I have found that studies are only as good as the researcher and that studies are manipulated all in the name money! For every bit of information that research proves, you will find other studies that contradict those results. So, who are we to believe? We, as the patients, have to be our best advocate and decide what is best for our own health. I have seen so many doctors, both allopathic and naturopathic, that couldn't figure me out. I have spent thousands of dollars trying to find my way back. None of the treatments were helpful, actually sometimes harmful! I am not against research all together, just cautious. Obviously, we have a great researcher here on board. He truly cares about our community and wants to help in the worse way. Thank you Rich! And for all those other researchers and doctors trying to find us a cure, they are still learning. They even admit they don't have all the answers!

It wasn't until I took charge a year ago and found myself getting better. Reading recovery stories of various illnesses (not just about ME/CFS) helped me find my healing path. So, I feel that Christine is right as far as it's about putting the body back in balance that helps correct all types of illnesses. Listening to my inner voice and following my intuition was when I started finding my health improving. For me, alternative care has been my best medicine. It took a while to find the best path to follow, but I feel like I am finally on the road to recovery. Allopathic medicine will still have it's place in my life, but will only be used for emergencies in the future.

As far as Christine, I want to give her a chance. There is something about what she is saying that is resonating with me. Having Christine and Rich get together on this would be so beneficial. Even my current practitioners that have helped me with my recovery, (who are not MDs or NDs by the way), feel I am making a wise decision to proceed with her. We feel this is a missing link. Like Brenda said above, some of the best medicine comes from people who are not MDs.

Again, Christine never solicited anything from me. I approached her, actually begged her to share more information and for her to have me tested. At first, she declined and said that I needed to find a practitioner who used this lab that she utilizes. She then said I could send her the results and she would take a look at them. But I wanted her to help me, and she finally agreed! (Btw, I am not challenging the decisions of the moderators here, just telling my side of things.)

Like DB and Brenda, I won't blindly follow her advice. What I take and what I do is my decision. If it sounds right, I am going to give it a shot!

 

[Little Bluestem]

To try something new, many of us need a logic, a context, some science (however, loosely described) and clear and direct answers to basic questions. This is even more so, when the new theory contradicts strongly with existing theories.

I think Christine is on to something with the significance of Riboflavin, but from all that she said on this site and Privately (I corresponded with her via PM), clarity was given as to what to take and what not to take, but no clarity or support as to why.

Christine was on the board only a short time. If she had been here longer, I think some of the logic, context, and science would have been provided. I think once her paper is published, she is going to post it on her website. That should help.

Christine probably wasted too much time communicating with individuals on PM. It is not a good way to convey complex information. I almost hate to bring it up with all of this talk about an inner circle, but I was the first to reply to her on the board. We began communication before she got so swamped by other people. After the second PM, she told me she needed to explain some things to me that would take too long in PM and asked me to phone her, which I did. I found her explanation satisfactory.

For instance, I did test with Dr Sarah Myhill which revealed low Copper/Zinc Sodase levels. This is a functional test which Dr Myhill interpreted to mean I was low in copper and zinc, and thus I should supplement these minerals. Looking at my hair analysis, Christine told me I should NOT take these minerals as they further deplete B2 etc. So I have a clear contradiction, with no clear explanation other than the assertion from Christine that my Dr doesn't understand minerals or vitamins, and that she is a pioneer in this area. Fair enough, but how do I go about coming to a decision whether to accept such a claim or not? After all, Dr Myhill's experience with CF/ME is extensive, and approach is not inconsistent with say Rich or Fred.

I have been having tissue mineral analysis done by a registered dietitian who is required to have some kind of credentials in the state where I live. Despite watching my iron level fall to barely within the reference range and my lead level suddenly pop up, she told me not take any iron. I think she would be considered more mainstream than Christine, but she gave the same advice. The only problem was that I found her reason for this lame. I had actually bought some iron supplement and was going to start taking it when Christine convinced me that was a bad idea. Only time will tell if she is correct. Since the iron is borderline normal, if Christine and my dietitian are wrong, I do not think there will be any harm in waiting a few more weeks to supplement it. If Christine is right, I may have avoided doing myself serious harm.

I have not seem anything posted by Rich that indicated that he found Christines theories to be inconsistent with his, at least any more than Freds are. I have not seen any comment from Fred.

I do think Christines zeal exceeds her knowledge of ME/CFS at the moment. If it were not for that zeal, she might have given up on us by now. I hope that some of us can provide her with more knowledge about ME/CFS, especially the long-term effects, to the benefit of us all.

 

[SJB944]

It's good to read your perspectives Brenda, DB, Shell Bell and Little Bluestem,

Can't disagree with the sentiments expressed.

Well, b-complex for start. Both Rich and Fred advocate taking Vitamin B's together, which Christine warns against. At the heart of Christine's theory is that other B's deplete Riboflavin, Rich has stated clearly that he thinks it best that B's are taken together. Fred suggests taking Vitamin B complex twice a day, plus extra other B's including P5P, B1 etc. His approach is to cover off all the basics and go from there. I'm not saying one is right the other wrong, but to me this is not consistent.

 

[dmholmes]

I'm taking a small amount of B1 at Christine's suggestion.

I don't think it is possible to have a B complex that is appropriately balanced for any one person all the time. Much less many people all the time. There are too many complex interactions and dependencies with these nutrients. And the amounts of the various vitamins in a B complex are extremely high from a evolutionary perspective.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I'm taking a small amount of B1 at Christine's suggestion.

I am also taking B1--just 8 mg/day. I have no strong reactions to that, like I do to the B2.

 

[Hanna]

Same experience as dmholmes, I'm taking small amounts of B1, B3, B6, folate with my B2, on Christine's suggestions.
B-complex formulations are so different. Mine was particularly poor in B2 and high in others (AOR)

 

[anne_likes_red]

I used the AOR too. Feel much better taking B12 having incorporated Christine's suggestions.
Anne.

 

[aquariusgirl]

anne: sorry, confused. did you ditch the b complex? so you're taking b2 & B12?

 

[anne_likes_red]

anne: sorry, confused. did you ditch the b complex? so you're taking b2 & B12?

Hi aq, knocked down to one AOR complex (I was taking 2).
I usually take 1000mg each of hydroxyB12 and methylB12 (both sublingual) but have tried 5000mg methylB12 the last few days and find I can tolerate that, where I couldn't before.
Taking B2 at 12.5mg 4 x per day and extra benfotiamine, plus a little manganese, and fraction of actifolate. Getting good food source of manganese too.
Sleeping really well
Anne.

 

[aquariusgirl]

yay for the sleeping. i think i noticed that too. not sure it's consistent...but you quickly become used to teh new normal and you can't remember what your baseline was b4. Definately tolerating more B12 here too. 10mg of methyl sublingual..

 

[Little Bluestem]

Well, b-complex for start. Both Rich and Fred advocate taking Vitamin B's together, which Christine warns against. At the heart of Christine's theory is that other B's deplete Riboflavin, Rich has stated clearly that he thinks it best that B's are taken together. ... I'm not saying one is right the other wrong, but to me this is not consistent.

Christine warns against taking a B complex when a person who is B2 deficient begins taking B2. This was not general advise, but aimed at those she thought deficient in B2. She was banned from the board before she was able to get beyond the first step with anyone. She told me to take B1 with the B2 from the beginning. She said to watch for B12 deficiency symptoms and then add it, probably within days. If I remember correctly - always a problem with someone with cognitive dysfunction - she said to get folic acid from my diet, not a supplement. My guess is she will eventually have people getting all of the Bs from supplements and/or food.

Rich has read all of this and has not said that he found it inconceivable that some people, with specific symptoms, should not take a B-complex for a time. Rich and Fred do not agree on the forms of B12 to be used. I think they also have some sort of disagreement about glutathione. Most of the members here do not have a problem with that (maybe you do, I don't know your personal opinion on that subject).

Since we know so little about Christine's theories at the current time, why not wait until some of us have tried following her suggestions for a while and see what happens.

 

[froufox]

Im taking all of the B vits, separately, and in smaller amounts than usual....i seem to be doing ok on them, so far..... I'm also tolerating methyl b12 more than usual i think (only 1mg tho, but going to try experimenting with higher doses ).. my brain, cognition and mood is feeling really good at times. Really feel like my brain is getting nourished.

Also sleeping so much deeper most nights which feels really good, have not had that in a LONG time!

 

[Hanna]

Im taking all of the B vits, separately, and in smaller amounts than usual...

Hi Frou Fox,

Did you find brands that offer B's separately and in a low dose (<100 mg) ?
B2 - source naturals 25 mg was quoted somewhere in the threads, but what for B1 (found 100mg)? B3, B6 ?
Thanks in advance

 

[froufox]

Hi Hanna, yes I already had most of the individual B vits anyway (apart from B2!) as ive experimented taking all of them on their own.

All different brands from iherb.... most are under 100mg apart from niacinamide and pantothenic acid which I take in doses higher than 100mg.

Sublingual Coenzymated B1 (Source Naturals)...16mg per tab, split between meals.
P5P (Thorne research) 33.8mg per cap, again split throughout the day
B2 (as riboflavin) - Natural Factors - i split 100mg tablets and take about 12.5mg, usually 3 times a day.

 

[Hanna]

Thanks a lot Frou Fox it helps!

 

[triffid113]

Oh, so Dog Person is gone? Well, i am sad. I liked her. I thought she was crazy - either offering so much work for free or offering for pay - either way. But I was interested in hearing what she said about other people's hair. It was interesting to consider B2 as having a more important role than I had thought, for instance. I learned something from her. So the rules are what they are, but I will remember her as an interesting and helpful person.

 

[Ecoclimber]

First of all folks, Christine knew nothing about ME/CFS. She gave anecdotal information about herself and someone with fatigue. This was not a scientific process. First of all, there are some people on here that do not have ME/CFS. Since we do not have the bio-markers of who is or who is not ME/CFS, it is hard to determine whether a particular treatment protocol will work for a patient. Everything is anecdotal. What works for one may not work for another and vice versa. One thing this certainly is not is a clinical trail with defined cohorts. So, if some information is of help to you, it could be a placebo effect for a short period of time.

There are literally thousands of peer review scientific research articles on ME/CFS by top virologist and retrovirologist in the field. ME/CFS patients should meet the CCC definition criteria and should include those who have came down with this illness after a post viral infection, like Kati who is now seeing Kogelnick, or those who suffered from some sort of trauma. Anyone outside of this group may not have ME/CFS or may have a subset of the disease. However, all of the top researchers believe that it is pathogenic in origin based on lab reports and the outbreaks in various parts of the world. This isn't cause by mineral deficiency although the immune response of this illness may effect mitochondrial function.

With that being said, if something helps someone build up their immune system until researchers find the cause and cure for this illness then go for it! But, remember scammers prey upon desperate people going from one forum to the next to pitch their cure-all products. It is great that people asked questions as they should. Their health is at stake. For someone places a disclaimer of not providing medical advice and then goes ahead and does it, clearly violates her own statement. My concern if she comes out with a paper stating B2 cures CFS as doesn't have a clue what ME/CFS without biomarkers
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/hair.html

"Christine Huebner was born in Indiana and grew up on a family farm and has always had a deep love of animals. She attended Purdue University and obtained a degree as an Animal Technician. She worked in this field a short time before traveling overseas for many years for her husbands job.

Several years ago she was certified in hair mineral analysis and became CEO of Hairs to Health, Inc. Since that time Christine has been working with dogs as well as people, from across the United States assisting in mineral balancing science. On the web site where she was a student, Christine was require to use Analytical Research Labs for additional training."

There is still many ongoing research projects being conducted by leading researchers many of which most people are unaware of. This is this time around scientists are keeping quiet. That was more of consensus after the XMRV blowup. So if it seems quiet, it is but it doesn't mean that things are not happening in the background.


Eco

 

[brenda]

Eco

This isn't cause by mineral deficiency although the immune response of this illness may effect mitochondrial function.

Can you back up that statment with studies which show that nutritional deficiencies do not have an adverse effect on the immune system? No, I thought not.

Chronic fatigue is a symptom not an illness and Christine is only interested in treating deficencies which affect ATP production and believes she has discovered a missing link in the knowledge which is held at present. She believes that once the cells can produce more ATP, then whatever a person is suffering from can be rectified.

She has not sold snake oil to anyone, all she has done is give her services for free and anyway if anyone is not helped by her advice they will not bother to continue. I think that we all have enough knowledge of ourselves and have tried enough treatments to know all about placebo effects. Quite a few here have given her theory a chance and have had such a response to it positive and negative to know that there is something important here.

If she is proposing something wacky, then someone of RichvK`s stature and education would not be interested in her coming paper and defending her and taking her research seriously. There have been other times in the past when a non medical person has made a discovery. She is not about to say that B2 cures cfs and if you had bothered to read this and the other threads you would have known this instead of your knee jerk response. Not very scientific.

Brenda