Nil illegitimo carborundum ! 
Yes. I ditto ditto that!
Goodbye
- Thread starter Nielk
- Start date
TRANSLATION: Don't let the bastards wear you down.
Yes. I ditto ditto that!
Yes. I ditto ditto that!
Sorry to see you go Nielk, you have provided a nice balance here on many topics. However, I do agree that if participation has become toxic to you personally, for whatever reason, stepping back is the right thing. There have been times when I have had to do the same here, once for several months. Hope you find some peace.
Many times as a moderator I have to deal with angry forum members on BOTH sides of the same issue. In an ideal world we could just insist that people be diplomatic when they disagree, or they would be banned. But this is the web, and the web right now if full of venting, extreme views, and many people feel offended if you ask them to be nice. If this were my forum and not Cort's, I would ban all political discussions, meaning all discussion of disease politics. Those discussions I think are better suited for forums dedicated just to that type of discussion. Sensitive, sick patients looking for help are not a good audience for political activism. Anyway, many times I have to remind myself that this disease includes 'irritability' as a major symptom (just read the CDC web page on CFS). Please don't harbor bad feelings about forum members, everyone is trying to makes sense out of this situation in their own way. I don't fault any ME and/or CFS patient for trying to find their own way through the maze of this illness. Perhaps for some, venting about the politics is therapeutic. Personally I think it is almost pointless, they are preaching to the choir. To each their own.
Best,
--Kurt
Many times as a moderator I have to deal with angry forum members on BOTH sides of the same issue. In an ideal world we could just insist that people be diplomatic when they disagree, or they would be banned. But this is the web, and the web right now if full of venting, extreme views, and many people feel offended if you ask them to be nice. If this were my forum and not Cort's, I would ban all political discussions, meaning all discussion of disease politics. Those discussions I think are better suited for forums dedicated just to that type of discussion. Sensitive, sick patients looking for help are not a good audience for political activism. Anyway, many times I have to remind myself that this disease includes 'irritability' as a major symptom (just read the CDC web page on CFS). Please don't harbor bad feelings about forum members, everyone is trying to makes sense out of this situation in their own way. I don't fault any ME and/or CFS patient for trying to find their own way through the maze of this illness. Perhaps for some, venting about the politics is therapeutic. Personally I think it is almost pointless, they are preaching to the choir. To each their own.
Best,
--Kurt
Well said, kurt.
I'm very sorry to hear that Gabby - you've been a valuable member of the Forums.
I'm not nearly engaged in the Forums as I was in the beginning - once the non-profit got started there have just been too many other projects for me to be engaged as I was.
I apologize for not answering your emails more quickly. People who PM me know that it often takes me a couple of days (minimum) to get to back to them. (I never found the first PM (I looked) and the last was two days ago, on Friday).
PR was always designed to be a Forum in which passionate but objective and even handed discussions as opposed to 'politically correct' discussions took place. I founded PR with the commitment that above all it was a place that looked honestly at all aspects of CFS and we have at times taken our knocks for that - and, of course, others appreciate that kind of rigor.
I'm sorry that that we haven't realized those ideals and that some members have used the Forums as a kind of bully pulpit to present their views and deal disrespectfully with those that have not. We obviously have more work to do.
I hope you can come back after a time - you are clearly wanted
(We can't keep the Forum space safe without moderators and our team is thin and stretched - as it always seems to be. We welcome anyone who wants to help keep PR a place of honest and respectful communication. Thanks! )
I'm not nearly engaged in the Forums as I was in the beginning - once the non-profit got started there have just been too many other projects for me to be engaged as I was.
I apologize for not answering your emails more quickly. People who PM me know that it often takes me a couple of days (minimum) to get to back to them. (I never found the first PM (I looked) and the last was two days ago, on Friday).
PR was always designed to be a Forum in which passionate but objective and even handed discussions as opposed to 'politically correct' discussions took place. I founded PR with the commitment that above all it was a place that looked honestly at all aspects of CFS and we have at times taken our knocks for that - and, of course, others appreciate that kind of rigor.
I'm sorry that that we haven't realized those ideals and that some members have used the Forums as a kind of bully pulpit to present their views and deal disrespectfully with those that have not. We obviously have more work to do.
I hope you can come back after a time - you are clearly wanted
(We can't keep the Forum space safe without moderators and our team is thin and stretched - as it always seems to be. We welcome anyone who wants to help keep PR a place of honest and respectful communication. Thanks! )
We hope to see Neilk back here some day soon, and that her health is recovering swiftly from the slam-dunk it recently received
Taking a Break is Always Helpful
Hi Leela, she signed her name in the post that started this thread--go back and read it and you'll see.
I've found it necessary to take breaks on boards in the past when I actively participated, and to unfriend or even block a few people on Facebook. The internet just leads to virtual mudslinging at times. I left the yahoo group sickbuildings for a while, saying I'd come back later, just unsubscribed, after one member just started focussing on harassing me, because I'm rather stringent about moldy houses (I don't think they can be fixed, for anyone who is sick and reactive. Period.) At least that was my interpretation. Seeing as she's still in her moldy house, and still very addled and sick, she just began to focus her ire on me in post after post, and there was no win.
Ignore is good, if you can ignore.
I also left lymenet for a good long while. Now I occasionally post there.
I only read threads with titles that interest me, that's not too many (which is not in any way insulting the other threads, just personal interest) so I don't know who this person is or what she said.
Someone referred me to an amusing website recently, with all kinds of useful truths couched in irreverent sassy posts. He says there are basically four types of people.
1) The happy people. Truly happy--and you want to be one of them. So instead of envying and hating happy people, you have to be happy for them.
2) The sad people, in pain--and you want to give them compassion.
3) The good people--who truly do good because they want to. Be glad for them and about them.
4) And, ta da---the crappy people! Those who would injure you no matter what, and have no idea how horrible they are. Though the impulse is to fight back, and to complain about them, he says you can only become #1 (happy) if you completely ignore them.
It does work...even if you take a break for a while, until all your emotions about the matter have passed, and then return.
Be happy....and ignore the crappy!
Hi Leela, she signed her name in the post that started this thread--go back and read it and you'll see.
I've found it necessary to take breaks on boards in the past when I actively participated, and to unfriend or even block a few people on Facebook. The internet just leads to virtual mudslinging at times. I left the yahoo group sickbuildings for a while, saying I'd come back later, just unsubscribed, after one member just started focussing on harassing me, because I'm rather stringent about moldy houses (I don't think they can be fixed, for anyone who is sick and reactive. Period.) At least that was my interpretation. Seeing as she's still in her moldy house, and still very addled and sick, she just began to focus her ire on me in post after post, and there was no win.
Ignore is good, if you can ignore.
I also left lymenet for a good long while. Now I occasionally post there.
I only read threads with titles that interest me, that's not too many (which is not in any way insulting the other threads, just personal interest) so I don't know who this person is or what she said.
Someone referred me to an amusing website recently, with all kinds of useful truths couched in irreverent sassy posts. He says there are basically four types of people.
1) The happy people. Truly happy--and you want to be one of them. So instead of envying and hating happy people, you have to be happy for them.
2) The sad people, in pain--and you want to give them compassion.
3) The good people--who truly do good because they want to. Be glad for them and about them.
4) And, ta da---the crappy people! Those who would injure you no matter what, and have no idea how horrible they are. Though the impulse is to fight back, and to complain about them, he says you can only become #1 (happy) if you completely ignore them.
It does work...even if you take a break for a while, until all your emotions about the matter have passed, and then return.
Be happy....and ignore the crappy!
Oops. My bad.
Gooodbye Nielk, I will miss our interesting and intuitive conversations over daily tarot cards with DB, and Leela. I am glad you are listening to what you need the most and I am sure you are on the right path in leaving behind toxic elements in your life.
I am also hoping this won't be the last we hear from you and that we can again talk the philosophies of life.
Allie
I am also hoping this won't be the last we hear from you and that we can again talk the philosophies of life.
Allie
Hoping you will be back after some rest, feel better, you will be missed!
Nielk, I will miss you a lot. I feel a kindred spirit in you.
I too have a lot of trouble with people for whom anger and fighting seem to be their highest value, because I don't have the energy or health to deal with it either and I don't want to enshrine it. I largely have ignored or dealt only fleetingly with such people on this or other forums, when one is throwing his/her weight around. But in the rest of life, I have had to discontinue a few relationships this past year for just this reason. When someone subordinates all else to the god of anger (and its accompanying pride, fear, cynicism, distrust and revenge), no matter what good qualities that person also has, like intelligence or knowledge, nothing of value is going to come of the exchange. I don't toss people out of my life quickly but after repeated experiences and trys, if they are still high handed, arrogant, angry, dictatorial, overly critical and the like, I definitely do. Sometimes this means I have had to leave an arena, as you are doing right now, because I need to put space and silence between us.
Hoping that peace and positive feeling re-grow for you like the broken limbs that the nurse at Hogwarts could re-grow (did you watch or read Harry Potter?) We are your friends and want you to feel well again, to come back another time and contribute more of your inimitable self!
I too have a lot of trouble with people for whom anger and fighting seem to be their highest value, because I don't have the energy or health to deal with it either and I don't want to enshrine it. I largely have ignored or dealt only fleetingly with such people on this or other forums, when one is throwing his/her weight around. But in the rest of life, I have had to discontinue a few relationships this past year for just this reason. When someone subordinates all else to the god of anger (and its accompanying pride, fear, cynicism, distrust and revenge), no matter what good qualities that person also has, like intelligence or knowledge, nothing of value is going to come of the exchange. I don't toss people out of my life quickly but after repeated experiences and trys, if they are still high handed, arrogant, angry, dictatorial, overly critical and the like, I definitely do. Sometimes this means I have had to leave an arena, as you are doing right now, because I need to put space and silence between us.
Hoping that peace and positive feeling re-grow for you like the broken limbs that the nurse at Hogwarts could re-grow (did you watch or read Harry Potter?) We are your friends and want you to feel well again, to come back another time and contribute more of your inimitable self!
Nielk, this is sad news for me, you are a very nice and good person and one I really like at this site. As much as I hate to see you leave, you need to do whatever you must do and protect your health. I too have been very shocked at posts of late. Cort thou is sick too and has been looking for more mods.
Have you found a gentler ME/CFS forum to use instead of here? I suggest the much more moderated one at http://forum.notcrazy.net/ (no crap at all used to be tolerated there thou i havent been there for ages I'd think it would be the same..mostly aussies there but ones from other countries too).
If you ever want to get in touch with me once you leave, my email is taniaaust1@hotmail.com . I'd love to hear what ME/CFS site you end up making your new home as I may end up leaving too as emotionally I cant tollerate much either right now.
best wishes.
Have you found a gentler ME/CFS forum to use instead of here? I suggest the much more moderated one at http://forum.notcrazy.net/ (no crap at all used to be tolerated there thou i havent been there for ages I'd think it would be the same..mostly aussies there but ones from other countries too).
If you ever want to get in touch with me once you leave, my email is taniaaust1@hotmail.com . I'd love to hear what ME/CFS site you end up making your new home as I may end up leaving too as emotionally I cant tollerate much either right now.
best wishes.
Thanks for responding to this thread, Cort - we realise how hard you work on PR and appreciate all the many aspects of your work - the articles, the going to conferences on our behalf, and providing this forum, which is a lifeline for so many.
I don't think that you should beat yourself up about needing to do more work. I don't think that any amount of work on your part or that of the moderators can deal with the problem of resident trolls. Several threads have started up in the last few days by distressed people in response to some appalling behaviour by people we have seen do this kind of thing over and over. I think a lot of us would like to see them gone for good.
These days I find I expect to have to abandon interesting threads on the latest research or latest conference because, being interesting, they draw the trolls like magnets. Sooner or later a flame war will break out and I dare neither read the thread nor post on it for fear of drawing fire on myself. I would no more consider being a moderator at the moment than I would consider going into a war zone. I would expect to find myself having to deal with these same trolls, who might at best be suspended for a short while but will then come back, ready to vomit on everyone's shoes again.
I think that it would be easier to recruit more moderators, and that they would have less to do, with a permanent eviction of our well-known repeat offenders, and with rapid and permanent exclusion of any new trolls who turn up.
I agree that passionate discussion is great and that insulting discussion is not - I'd really like to see PR being a safe place for discussion again. Reasonable people are becoming afraid to post.
I don't think that you should beat yourself up about needing to do more work. I don't think that any amount of work on your part or that of the moderators can deal with the problem of resident trolls. Several threads have started up in the last few days by distressed people in response to some appalling behaviour by people we have seen do this kind of thing over and over. I think a lot of us would like to see them gone for good.
These days I find I expect to have to abandon interesting threads on the latest research or latest conference because, being interesting, they draw the trolls like magnets. Sooner or later a flame war will break out and I dare neither read the thread nor post on it for fear of drawing fire on myself. I would no more consider being a moderator at the moment than I would consider going into a war zone. I would expect to find myself having to deal with these same trolls, who might at best be suspended for a short while but will then come back, ready to vomit on everyone's shoes again.
I think that it would be easier to recruit more moderators, and that they would have less to do, with a permanent eviction of our well-known repeat offenders, and with rapid and permanent exclusion of any new trolls who turn up.
I agree that passionate discussion is great and that insulting discussion is not - I'd really like to see PR being a safe place for discussion again. Reasonable people are becoming afraid to post.
How can you permanently ban a person when they can just sign up with a different name? Is there an IP address thingo or something?
Not a challenge, a sincere inquiry, being something of a luddite now.
Not a challenge, a sincere inquiry, being something of a luddite now.
Cort or one of the technically-minded mods would be able to give a definitive response to this but some websites allow the person running it to see the IP address of the poster. Some can set up filters to block them.
I remember a couple of years ago someone got banned and then was popping up every five minutes with a new name and attacking the moderators for having excluded them, so it was obvious to everyone who they were - some sort of solution to the problem was found, though, and they disappeared.
Although it's not ideal, if someone managed to sneak back in with a new ID but behaved themselves from thereon in, it would be win-win; however, the kind of people we're talking about needing permanent exclusion are those who don't appear capable of stopping themselves being horrible so even if they got a new ID, they would be likely to start up with their old patterns of behaviour and would get kicked off again, I would hope.
I remember a couple of years ago someone got banned and then was popping up every five minutes with a new name and attacking the moderators for having excluded them, so it was obvious to everyone who they were - some sort of solution to the problem was found, though, and they disappeared.
Although it's not ideal, if someone managed to sneak back in with a new ID but behaved themselves from thereon in, it would be win-win; however, the kind of people we're talking about needing permanent exclusion are those who don't appear capable of stopping themselves being horrible so even if they got a new ID, they would be likely to start up with their old patterns of behaviour and would get kicked off again, I would hope.
Incidentally (sorry, on a bit of a rant now), I think we do ill-behaved people no favours in the long run by allowing them to persist in behaving badly on the forums. The best we can do for them is give them clear feedback, which includes being ejected if they persist in breaking the rules.
What Sasha said.
I also vote to EJECT, rather than to protect the instigators, agitators and trouble makers.
I also vote to EJECT, rather than to protect the instigators, agitators and trouble makers.
I'm sure the forum admin has full access to IP info. But I'm wondering if it's ever checked to look for multiple accounts coming from the same place. I'm finding it somewhat interesting that when some accounts with vocal minority viewpoints become silent, different accounts emerge from dormancy with the same viewpoints. Primarily in the "don't-be-an-activist" and "maybe-it's-partially-in-your-head" camp(s).
I second that. Some people feed off of negativity. It is a form of neurosis. So they stir up trouble just to get a meal.
Well-sung, Sing. Spot on.