glyphosate toxicity cure

[Basilico]

Well I thought this was a support forum. That's what I came here for. I would never doubt another person's symptoms or their dietary fixes because I had too many doctors tell me I'm just depressed, or there's no way I'm reacting to bread, or CFS is not a real disease. I thought we all faced the same doubt every day and came here to get away from it. Now maybe you can understand why it's wrong to tell somebody who came here for support that MAYBE they never actually had CFS. Well I think maybe I did have CFS. And maybe I did get better. And maybe other people can get better too. I certainly hope so.

I think that perhaps you are misinterpreting what I wrote. So I would like to try to explain.

First of, as I wrote previously, I am really glad that you found something that makes you feel better. If my husband and I found a cure, we would also be sharing our story here on PR in the hopes it might help someone else.

Unfortunately, online, when you search "CFS" and "cure" there are endless sham videos and personal accounts of people who claim to have had CFS that were cured by some variation of vitamins, raw foods, vegetarian diets, xyz diet, and on and on. There is an extreme ignorance as to what CFS is, that it is more than just fatigue, and that it can not be cured with any particular diet.

Now, from your symptoms, it's obvious that you had more than just fatigue, and I don't want you to interpret what I'm saying as meaning that you don't know what CFS is. I am giving this background info because many are skeptical (and rightly so) whenever people post about cures for CFS because there is so much junk science, so many charlatans, and so many people either mistaken or lying that it's difficult to analyze information being presented.

As far as I know, CFS has an unknown cause. There are thousands of hypotheses, but as of now, a diagnosis is made by excluding any known causes that could be responsible for the symptoms. It's only when every possible cause has been eliminated do we get diagnosed with the label "CFS". It seems to be not uncommon that people are diagnosed with CFS and after many years come to realize that their symptoms have a known cause; whether it's lyme or a mold allergy or something else. When that cause is treated or removed, the symptoms disappear. There is a super long thread here on PR arguing about this very idea.

I was not saying that you didn't or don't have CFS. However, I was suggesting that there is a possibility that you may have been mistakenly diagnosed with CFS because the true problem (glyphosate) was unknown as being the cause.

I think that glyphosate (or any other chemical) is unlikely to be a cause of CFS for several reasons in addition to what I already wrote.

1) Both my husband and I have taken all of the supplements on your list. In fact, I'd be surprised if most of the people here on PR haven't taken them also.

2) Both my husband and I have had little to no exposure to foods likely to contain glyphosate. I was a strict paleo eater for many years (no grains at all) and I ate only high quality local and organic grass-fed meats and vegetables. I know many on this forum with CFS have eaten in similar ways.

Again, I'd like to stress that I am very glad you have found something that has made a huge difference for you. Unfortunately, what seems to help you is an intervention that many here have already tried without success. This is why I think it will be unlikely to help others.

 

[Learner1]

As far as I know, CFS has an unknown cause. There are thousands of hypotheses, but as of now, a diagnosis is made by excluding any known causes that could be responsible for the symptoms. It's only when every possible cause has been eliminated do we get diagnosed with the label "CFS".

I just reread the ME/CFS Clinician's Guide, which clearly spells out the diagnostic criteria, which does not require excluding all other possibilities. If you meet the criteria, you have it.

It then goes on to say:

Comorbidities such as fibromyalgia and irritable bowel syndrome are common in
ME/CFS (SEID) patients. These comorbidities should be diagnosed and treated
when caring for patients. The presence of other illnesses should not preclude pa-
tients from receiving a diagnosis of ME/CFS (SEID) except in the unlikely event that
all symptoms can be accounted for by these other illnesses.

I've been diagnosed by one of the top ME/CFS experts. He also identified specific problems that we are working, but it doesn't mean I don't have it

From the emerging research and what was presented at the OMF Symposium, it is quite clear that there are significant abnormalities in ME/CFS patients, with the suspicion that we fall into certain subsets that need further investigation.

The ME/CFS fairy didn't sprinkle us with magic pixie dust to make us sick. Just because doctors haven't figured out exactly what's abnormal and how to fix it in each patient doesn't mean there aren't disease causing processes at work.

Its going to take continued good detective work to untangle this complex syndrome and identify the exact path to wellness for this somewhat heterogeneous group, e.g., identifying the subsets and determining the dynamics of and process for curing each subset.

 

[Basilico]

@Learner1 , unless I'm misunderstanding something what you quoted supports what I said and negates what you said.

Your quote from the ME/CFS Clinician's Guide states:

"The presence of other illnesses should not preclude patients from receiving a diagnosis of ME/CFS (SEID) except in the unlikely event that all symptoms can be accounted for by these other illnesses."

Therefore, if removing glyphosate or gluten or anything else causes symptoms to disappear, that person should not have a diagnosis of ME/CFS. This is exactly what I was saying. I'm not arguing that comorbid conditions can't exist (we know they do).

I'm saying that if a person's symptoms are attributed to something specific (such as a toxin, a food, an allergy, a nutritional deficit, mold, etc...) then that person doesn't have CFS if they are cured once that problem is rectified. Your own quote confirms this.

I know that plenty of people with CFS can be made worse by plenty of things. I don't doubt that glyphosate or mold exposure or a viral infection will make a vulnerable person (such as someone with CFS) worse, and I do agree it's something to be avoided.

However, since the OP is stating that avoiding this chemical (along with some supplements that most of us have already taken) is the cure, I believe that reasonable to at least question whether the OP had/has CFS or instead had a different undiagnosed condition that closely mimicked CFS, which we know has happened before.

 

[Thewonders92]

@Learner1 , unless I'm misunderstanding something what you quoted supports what I said and negates what you said.

Your quote from the ME/CFS Clinician's Guide states:

"The presence of other illnesses should not preclude patients from receiving a diagnosis of ME/CFS (SEID) except in the unlikely event that all symptoms can be accounted for by these other illnesses."

Therefore, if removing glyphosate or gluten or anything else causes symptoms to disappear, that person should not have a diagnosis of ME/CFS. This is exactly what I was saying. I'm not arguing that comorbid conditions can't exist (we know they do).

I'm saying that if a person's symptoms are attributed to something specific (such as a toxin, a food, an allergy, a nutritional deficit, mold, etc...) then that person doesn't have CFS if they are cured once that problem is rectified. Your own quote confirms this.

I know that plenty of people with CFS can be made worse by plenty of things. I don't doubt that glyphosate or mold exposure or a viral infection will make a vulnerable person (such as someone with CFS) worse, and I do agree it's something to be avoided.

However, since the OP is stating that avoiding this chemical (along with some supplements that most of us have already taken) is the cure, I believe that reasonable to at least question whether the OP had/has CFS or instead had a different undiagnosed condition that closely mimicked CFS, which we know has happened before.

It depends on what your definition of CFS is, you're saying those who get better didnt have it in the first place. So your definition could fit anyone up to their death bed who is chronically ill.

So I'm assuming you don't agree with the root cause theories, makes sense I agree with you there anyways.

But wouldn't the implication of a person getting better be that CFS is multicausal?

If your idea is that someone getting better from CFS is that they didn't have it, that would mean you don't agree it's multicausal. But you also don't agree that it has a root cause?

At that point it's psychological by nature.

 

[ljimbo423]

From the reading I have done about the effects of glyphosate toxicity. Mito. dysfunction (ie, a switch to anerobic glycolosis) and gut dysfunction are just 2 of the things it can cause.

It certainly seems possible to me that it could be one of the many paths to cfs/me. I think once you have enough mito dysfunction, dysbiosis and a leaky gut, for any reason, you can have a feedback loop, that could sustain cfs/me.

Jim

 

[may2]

Maybe there's more to this story. First of all - I don't take supplements (except for multivitamins and probiotics.) So I didn't get better by taking berberine I got better by taking berberis vulgaris. And in my twenties I took nux moschata which really worked like a charm. I haven't had brain fog since. So maybe I've gotten better in stages.
The thing is that nux moschata in supplement form is just nutmeg. People throw up if they take a lot so people don't take a lot. In homeopathy you get the powerful affect without the toxicity (according to people in India and France where they use it).

I had no idea people got better by taking berberine and I only learned about glyphosate last week so this is a new world for me. I found my fixes through a different route.

 

[may2]

I definitely have CFS and I've had it for over 20 years. I think you're confused - I didn't post a supplement list. I don't take supplements.


1) Both my husband and I have taken all of the supplements on your list. In fact, I'd be surprised if most of the people here on PR haven't taken them also.

2) Both my husband and I have had little to no exposure to foods likely to contain glyphosate. I was a strict paleo eater for many years (no grains at all) and I ate only high quality local and organic grass-fed meats and vegetables. I know many on this forum with CFS have eaten in similar ways.

 

[may2]

Do you have low blood pressure?

Yeah, the gut biome thing has always been in my mind, the center of CFS. Maybe that's just specific to me. But I did some research, found a few probiotics designed for mega dosing saw there was one where they're doing up to 3.6 trillion CFUS daily.

Probiotics have never helped me, but I've never breached 100 billion a day. I went out and got a bottle of 100 billion to tide me over until I get my shipment in, and decided to try what is considered a reparative dose. 500 billion CFU. Didn't expect much from it, and I'm unfortunately not prone to the placebo effect.

I've had digestive issues my whole life as far as I can remember, my memory has been fading, mood and depression worsening drastically over the past few years, inflammation, brain fog, low frequency bowel movements and emotional issues for about 10 years.

Today is the first day I didn't forget or lose track of anything, I have been recalling a lot of memories and it actually bothered me a bit when I'd realized over the past 4 months that I forgot how my girlfriend and I began dating, it popped into my head clear as day. It kind of scared me because it made me realize my mind is 100% devoted to getting well and I'm missing my entire life.

The headaches I've been getting the past month or so didn't come up, been in a great mood all day, heart arrythmia and tightness in chest have been reduced 60 to 80% give or take, 3 bowel movements in one day versus 2 or 3 a week, constipation is gone. Soreness in joints and muscles greatly diminished and I was able to go out for an hour today just for a walk, this kind of energy is incredible to me.

 

[Thewonders92]

Do you have low blood pressure?

Not that I'm aware of, it always turns up fine when I get checked out. Haven't noticed anything with it since taking the probiotics if that's what you mean.

 

[may2]

That's good. Sometimes my blood pressure dropped and I couldn't get out of bed. It's just a helpful thing to know. So I'm sure there's another section for this but right before I got better last year my body was all kinds of twisted up. I thought Feldenkrais provided some relief and some useful tools to use at home (so I didn't have to keep going back for the adjustment.) It didn't cure me or anything but I don't need it now.

 

[may2]

I think that perhaps you are misinterpreting what I wrote. So I would like to try to explain.

First of, as I wrote previously, I am really glad that you found something that makes you feel better. If my husband and I found a cure, we would also be sharing our story here on PR in the hopes it might help someone else.

Unfortunately, online, when you search "CFS" and "cure" there are endless sham videos and personal accounts of people who claim to have had CFS that were cured by some variation of vitamins, raw foods, vegetarian diets, xyz diet, and on and on. There is an extreme ignorance as to what CFS is, that it is more than just fatigue, and that it can not be cured with any particular diet.

Now, from your symptoms, it's obvious that you had more than just fatigue, and I don't want you to interpret what I'm saying as meaning that you don't know what CFS is. I am giving this background info because many are skeptical (and rightly so) whenever people post about cures for CFS because there is so much junk science, so many charlatans, and so many people either mistaken or lying that it's difficult to analyze information being presented.

As far as I know, CFS has an unknown cause. There are thousands of hypotheses, but as of now, a diagnosis is made by excluding any known causes that could be responsible for the symptoms. It's only when every possible cause has been eliminated do we get diagnosed with the label "CFS". It seems to be not uncommon that people are diagnosed with CFS and after many years come to realize that their symptoms have a known cause; whether it's lyme or a mold allergy or something else. When that cause is treated or removed, the symptoms disappear. There is a super long thread here on PR arguing about this very idea.

I was not saying that you didn't or don't have CFS. However, I was suggesting that there is a possibility that you may have been mistakenly diagnosed with CFS because the true problem (glyphosate) was unknown as being the cause.

I think that glyphosate (or any other chemical) is unlikely to be a cause of CFS for several reasons in addition to what I already wrote.

1) Both my husband and I have taken all of the supplements on your list. In fact, I'd be surprised if most of the people here on PR haven't taken them also.

2) Both my husband and I have had little to no exposure to foods likely to contain glyphosate. I was a strict paleo eater for many years (no grains at all) and I ate only high quality local and organic grass-fed meats and vegetables. I know many on this forum with CFS have eaten in similar ways.

Again, I'd like to stress that I am very glad you have found something that has made a huge difference for you. Unfortunately, what seems to help you is an intervention that many here have already tried without success. This is why I think it will be unlikely to help others.

Hi again,
I probably should have started off by saying I avoid all corn allergens in order to avoid having a reaction.That means I can't eat an aspirin. Have you seen the list of corn-derived ingredients recently? I don't know what you're doing beyond Paleo (which I think is great) but that's what I've done for over 10 years (with varying levels of success).

 

[Learner1]

@Basilico Its a circular debate. What I really meant was that we are all unique individuals with likely more than one root cause, be it genetic predisposition, microbiome imbalance, infectious agents, mitochondrial toxins, and other types of cell danger response.

The body becomes ill with ME/CFS symptoms, and can remain ill while still having the triggering causes or it can stay in a sickness state after the causes have been removed because it got tipped out of a normal balance and can't seem to recover.

Like Jarred Younger and his 2 subsets, one infectious and one autoimmune. (And then I asked if both situations may be co-occurring in some patients and he agreed there were.)

Both the infections and the autoimmune antibodies can cause a cascade of other biochemical abnormalities and produce dysfunction and damage to organs and tissues, leading to further abnormalities. This is on top of the fact that everyone has toxicity to some degree, whether heavy metals, organophosphates, plastics, petrochemicals, mold, etc. a unique blend all our own, and these substances can impact mitochondrial function and impact biochemical pathways.

The fact is, most doctors don't test for most of these things and then tell patients its all in their heads when they haven't found the root causes at all. We all have root causes and interesting abnormalities. The researchers have been doing heroic work identifying many of them.

The problem is, once we've developed all the symptoms for the diagnosis most of us have a nasty mix of the above, and finding them, prioritizing what to treat in which order, and patiently following through will eventually get results. For some lucky ones, a simple intervention, like thyroid, may fix them. And, as you say, maybe they weren't true ME/CFS patients.

There seems to be a lot of gray, and not black and white. And though successful treatment will depend on finding the subsets and developing treatment plans that work, it seems counterproductive to push people out saying they're not real and that what workers for one person won't work for others.

Cort's Health Rising write-up on the researchers' sessions at the OMF Symposium tracks with this individuality within the disease:

McGregor noted that ME/CFS looks like very much like a heterogeneous disease. If you want homogeneity in ME/CFS you’ve probably got to go to an outbreak which was triggered by one factor. (McGregor seems to agree with Fereshtah that there are different ways – depending on the environment insult and a person’s genetics – to arrive at ME/CFS).

Naviaux’s metabolic studies suggest that people with a dozen different diseases ranging from autism to Gulf War Syndrome to PTSD to mitochondrial diseases and, of course, ME/CFS are trapped in a cellular defense activation which serves to shut down energy production in their cells. Naviaux emphasized that in ME/CFS and these other diseases it’s not about the trigger but in resolving the response to cellular stress.

Stating one of his Zen comments “you’re chronically ill, because you can’t get better”, Naviaux stated that he believes that healing in ME/CFS is being blocked at specific control checkpoints in a cell. The idea that specific cellular control checkpoints that may be blocking a return to health have been identified was good news indeed.

The cell danger response that Naviaux believes people with ME/CFS are trapped in results in reduced mitochondrial consumption, reduced intracellular oxygen, increased free radical levels, increased release of ATP from the cell, activation of endogenous retroviruses. Once out of the cell ATP warns other cells that there’s danger in the area; to survive it the cells shut down.

Naviaux contrasted the 25% of metabolites that are common to chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) with the 75% that were specific to individuals. He followed that up by noting that half of the metabolites associated with ME/CFS were different between men and women. That’s sounds like a pretty heterogenous scenario but Naviaux believes there’s is a common core to ME/CFS...

...With regards to treating chronic fatigue syndrome, Naviaux said the first step was to remove the trigger (infection, toxin, etc.) if it’s still present, then use metabolomics to identify the metabolic gaps that need to be addressed in order refill the person’s metabolic “tank”, and then use anti-purinergic drugs such as low-dose Suramin to turn off the cell danger response. If I got it right the approach is both personalized and broad-based; Suriman turns off the cell danger response and then metabolomics results guide the treatment approach from there.

We can all benefit from pushing for and following the research. In the end, our bodies are complex systems of systems and what we learn may be helpful in different ways to each of us.

 

[Thewonders92]

I'd suggest anyone who thinks Glyphosate is safe, or that research done into it can be trusted read through these emails.

https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/toxic-tort-law/monsanto-roundup-lawsuit/monsanto-secret-documents/

 

[may2]

I'd suggest anyone who thinks Glyphosate is safe, or that research done into it can be trusted read through these emails.

https://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/toxic-tort-law/monsanto-roundup-lawsuit/monsanto-secret-documents/

You might be right about manganese! I've never had luck with supplements and I'm already taking a great food-based multivitamin so I didn't take extra manganese supplements, however manganese and zinc are connected to histamine storage and all of my problems seem to be related to histamine deficiency or having too much dietary histamine (based on what helps and what hurts, not based on testing).
Now I'm healthy enough that I'm trying to go WITHOUT the Berbers vulgaris and let my body do the work. I'm drinking lots of sauerkraut juice, Braggs, taking L. Plantarum 299v under my tongue, eating a good diet. I haven't had much luck fighting my candida problems (because I ate yogurt which is apparently very very bad for me). Then suddenly histamine kicked in and all the candida stuff is gone.
My main problem is liver/bile duct candida. When I eat high glyphosate foods my right hand goes numb because my muscles under my shoulder blade contract so much. Some people just get a headache over their right eye. That's how it started for me. The L.Plantarum helps temporarily with this.
I think if I have manganese or zinc deficiency it's probably related to absorption in my small intestines.

 

[Learner1]

Or you could have a manganese or zinc deficiency because you're using them up. In any case, best not to be deficient.

A rotation of diflucan and nystatin, along with a strict anti-candida diet for 2 months was helpful for me in getting rid of candida.

Might be best to avoid glyphosate-raised foods, too, especially with the symptoms you report.

 

[may2]

Thanks for your advice! I avoid glyphosate like the plague and have for years. Anything with a teensy bit of corn-derived ingredient is avoided. It's really hard.

 

[Learner1]

I know. I'm allergic to corn. One source of corn derivatives is in pharmaceuticals... I have to have most medications compounded.

Glyphosate is used on grains (like wheat and corn), legumes (including soy), and animals raised for meat, milk, and eggs are fed glyphosate-raised grains. It takes a conscious effort to get it out of your diet.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I know. I'm allergic to corn. One source of corn derivatives is in pharmaceuticals... I have to have most medications compounded.

What is your choice for fillers? I got Manganese and Molybdenum compounded with glucosamine+chondroitine, and I thought I could always ask for glucosamine+chondroitine as fillers, but then this would deplete Molybdenum even more