Don't be so sure
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/us/california-today-cancer-worries-over-a-common-weedkiller.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/business/monsanto-roundup-safety-lawsuit.html
That said i doubt its the cause of ME/CFS.
glyphosate toxicity cure
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/10/us/california-today-cancer-worries-over-a-common-weedkiller.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/business/monsanto-roundup-safety-lawsuit.html
That said i doubt its the cause of ME/CFS.
Hi! Berberis vulgaris is on the list in the link below - I take it as needed. I bet they sell this stuff in France too. A homeopath is the expert on this stuff and knows best how to determine the right potency (and determine if this is the right remedy for you). I take a water dose which means I take one of the "LM" potencies. It might be easier for you to find and use "berberine" which is a supplement that is similar to the homeopathic remedy I use. With berberine you have to research and be careful about negative effects.
https://hahnemannlabs.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0018927.2.514641327229777696
https://hahnemannlabs.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/0018927.2.514641327229777696
Maybe a CFS forum is not the best place for doubt?
I'm vegetarian but get my protein mainly from nuts, kefir, whey protein, and plant protein mixes like SunWarrior fermented brown rice protein, and SunWarror Warrior blend (Organic Pea Protein, Organic Hemp Protein, Organic Goji Berry).
I did a lot of research before deciding on SunWarror. It's organic, non-gmo, vegan, and the flavors labeled 'natural' don't contain any additives (such as sugar) or fillers. The brown rice protein has a milder flavor than the Warrior blend.
For whey protein I use Natural Factors Whey Factors (Swanson link or much lower price at Vitasave.ca) Whey factors is "sourced from grass-fed cattle, using natural Cross Flow Microfiltration and special care during processing to protect undenatured whey; it contains no artificial sweeteners or GMO ingredients, and is rBGH & BSE-free."
Basilico
Florida
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I'm not sure what this means, but I agree with @Alvin2 that glyphosate seems unlikely to be the cause of CFS. If it were, how could you explain that families who all eat the same foods and come into contact with the same amount of glyphosate but then don't all come down with CFS? Why don't whole communities who are exposed then all develop CFS?
The fact that very few people (statistically) actually develop CFS while huge numbers are exposed to this (or any other) toxin around the world leads one to conclude that toxicological exposure doesn't really make sense as a smoking gun.
That doesn't mean that exposure to this particular chemical is a good thing, of course it sounds like something we should stay far away from.
I think it's great that you found something that has made such a huge impact. Perhaps it works for you because the cause of your health problems was an actual undiagnosed glyphosate toxicity rather than CFS.
Questions are the beginning of wisdom. If you have a not well understood condition you don't accept myths because they often do more harm then good. You push for science and do the best you can to find the truth because thats what leads to legitimate treatment.
Thanks, this is exactly what i was getting at.
Well said, CFS and pesticide toxicity are both serious conditions but like any serious condition it should be mitigated and avoided where possible, one does not exclude the other.
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What makes you doubt this? I think chronic gut issues, leaky gut, inflammation oxidative stress, mineral dysregulation and resultant mehylation dysfunction would definitely have some ties to CFS, and these are all caused by glyphosate.
But that also goes for family's of people who have CFS who don't have CFS right? Just in general I mean.
I'm not saying it's certainly this, but some people get CFS and others don't.
Some people become ill consuming glyphosate, and some don't.
What do people with CFS generally have in common? Mineral dysregulation, chronic gut issues and inflammation I've seen many times, and impaired methylation which is just a result of mineral dysregulation. Glyphosate definitely does this and more. Could be that some people are more susceptible to it than others though for any reason.
I guess a good test could be eating cheerios, the general variety not honey nut. High glyphosate content, 1200ppb, if it aggravates your symptoms you can at least assume glyphosate is part of your issue. I don't know, I'll know more about my situation in general after I start.
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The only real way to figure this out would be to get a large sample of people with CFS and measure glyphosate elimination in the urine, get an average and then compare lower and higher elimination rates to severity of the illness. I don't see this happening though because glyphosate isnt a big concern yet.
I just believe anything that's going to render minerals in crops inactive, and chelate minerals in the body once consumed also acting as a very potent antibiotic with affinity towards good bactetia and not towards bad bacteria is definitely going to cause some long term health effects.
I just believe anything that's going to render minerals in crops inactive, and chelate minerals in the body once consumed also acting as a very potent antibiotic with affinity towards good bactetia and not towards bad bacteria is definitely going to cause some long term health effects.
For starters no evidence, just a few coincidences.
Next no testing has shown toxic pesticide levels only in ME/CFS patients.
Next the pesticide consumption of the rest of public is not significantly different then ME/CFS patients
Next we have had hundreds if not thousands of proposed causes over the years, all have been wrong
Thats what i've got off the top of my head, and i'm sure others can come up with more.
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I'm not saying it is glyphosate poisoning. You do seem a bit more than skeptical that it wouldn't be though.
It wouldn't take much to go a month without glyphosate foods, and try the supplements aimed at mitigating damage and decreasing glyphosate load though, but I realize most would rather wait for the science to come in. My only worry with that is that Monsanto has been caught ghostwriting fabricated research about its safety and the allowable limit keeps jumping up, so I'm not sure that will happen.
Lets just say theories are a dime a dozen and have a very poor track record
Mel9
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Maybe you could test some organically grown wheat flour? Presumably there shouldn't be any glyphosate in it.
Well I thought this was a support forum. That's what I came here for. I would never doubt another person's symptoms or their dietary fixes because I had too many doctors tell me I'm just depressed, or there's no way I'm reacting to bread, or CFS is not a real disease. I thought we all faced the same doubt every day and came here to get away from it. Now maybe you can understand why it's wrong to tell somebody who came here for support that MAYBE they never actually had CFS. Well I think maybe I did have CFS. And maybe I did get better. And maybe other people can get better too. I certainly hope so.
Doctors tell me I got sick because some people can't handle Tetracycline and I'm one of them (I first got sick after Lyme DIsease and Tetracycline). Do you think maybe some people can't handle glyphosate, while others can? High glyphosate foods cause a lot of inflammation for me, and then my body reacts with a lot of hormones, and then I get exhausted.
Doctors tell me I got sick because some people can't handle Tetracycline and I'm one of them (I first got sick after Lyme DIsease and Tetracycline). Do you think maybe some people can't handle glyphosate, while others can? High glyphosate foods cause a lot of inflammation for me, and then my body reacts with a lot of hormones, and then I get exhausted.
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Don't let it bother you too much May, think about all the suspicion and doubt you and all the rest of us have gotten in our lives. People around here have just had too many claims of a "root cause" and too many protocols suggested over the years, it definitely wears a person down.
I'm in the same boat you are with glyphosate foods, have been for a long time. It's not even a matter of wheat for me necessarily. There's tons of reasons why glyphosate could particularly impair certain people but not others, mostly to do with genetics, some people with CFS could have massive B12 deficiencies or problems metabolizing it, some may have toxic levels of lead, mercury or copper, or even severe hypodopaminergic problems. Its really quite a mystery.
I do believe myself, given the amount of food that contain glyphosate that it heavily contributes to a lot of CFS issues, but there are people on this forum who live in countries where it has been banned, as long as you're getting better that's what counts, I have read a decent amount on people who get much better on Berberine. Keep spreading the word, stay positive!
Keep spreading the word, stay positive![/QUOTE]
Thanks that was much needed! It seems so simple to me. There can be multiple causes of CFS - anything that messes with your gut so much that you don't recover. I just say histamine is my cause. Because it is. Anything that messes with my flora and increases my histamine causes my fatigue. Luckily berberis vulgaris fixes that histamine problem for me - and it will probably fix it for others too.
Thanks that was much needed! It seems so simple to me. There can be multiple causes of CFS - anything that messes with your gut so much that you don't recover. I just say histamine is my cause. Because it is. Anything that messes with my flora and increases my histamine causes my fatigue. Luckily berberis vulgaris fixes that histamine problem for me - and it will probably fix it for others too.
1) glyphosate is an antibiotic. It shuts down a pathway that both bacteria and plants need to survive.
2) microbiome issues have been shown in ME/CFS and if you look at this recent post from, Ken Lassesen I think you can see some reasons why the changes we see in the ME/CFS could have a major impact.
https://cfsremission.com/2017/09/06/what-happens-with-no-lactobacillus-bifidobacterium-and-e-coli/
3) You may remember that Chris Armstrong's presentation at stanford https://www.melbournebioanalytics.org/me-metabolism-and-i-by-chris-armstrong-august-2017/ showed a viscious cycle in which a change in energy production lead to a change in the microbiome that encouraged a continuation of that change in energy production.
I understand that one of the chies consequences of this is an increase in the production of propionate - which is also associated with autism and seems to lead to similar of citric acid cycle issues to the ones we have in ME/CFS
https://www.researchgate.net/public...f_the_mitochondria_and_the_enteric_microbiome
4) I cannot really get my head around all the issues but I suggest that people may want to look at this video by John Bagnulo which links a lot of this together
And of course note once your in the viscious cycle it does not much matter how you got there. If glyphosate tends to reinforce the cycle reducing it makes sense.
2) microbiome issues have been shown in ME/CFS and if you look at this recent post from, Ken Lassesen I think you can see some reasons why the changes we see in the ME/CFS could have a major impact.
https://cfsremission.com/2017/09/06/what-happens-with-no-lactobacillus-bifidobacterium-and-e-coli/
3) You may remember that Chris Armstrong's presentation at stanford https://www.melbournebioanalytics.org/me-metabolism-and-i-by-chris-armstrong-august-2017/ showed a viscious cycle in which a change in energy production lead to a change in the microbiome that encouraged a continuation of that change in energy production.
I understand that one of the chies consequences of this is an increase in the production of propionate - which is also associated with autism and seems to lead to similar of citric acid cycle issues to the ones we have in ME/CFS
https://www.researchgate.net/public...f_the_mitochondria_and_the_enteric_microbiome
4) I cannot really get my head around all the issues but I suggest that people may want to look at this video by John Bagnulo which links a lot of this together
And of course note once your in the viscious cycle it does not much matter how you got there. If glyphosate tends to reinforce the cycle reducing it makes sense.
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Yeah, the gut biome thing has always been in my mind, the center of CFS. Maybe that's just specific to me. But I did some research, found a few probiotics designed for mega dosing saw there was one where they're doing up to 3.6 trillion CFUS daily.
Probiotics have never helped me, but I've never breached 100 billion a day. I went out and got a bottle of 100 billion to tide me over until I get my shipment in, and decided to try what is considered a reparative dose. 500 billion CFU. Didn't expect much from it, and I'm unfortunately not prone to the placebo effect.
I've had digestive issues my whole life as far as I can remember, my memory has been fading, mood and depression worsening drastically over the past few years, inflammation, brain fog, low frequency bowel movements and emotional issues for about 10 years.
Today is the first day I didn't forget or lose track of anything, I have been recalling a lot of memories and it actually bothered me a bit when I'd realized over the past 4 months that I forgot how my girlfriend and I began dating, it popped into my head clear as day. It kind of scared me because it made me realize my mind is 100% devoted to getting well and I'm missing my entire life.
The headaches I've been getting the past month or so didn't come up, been in a great mood all day, heart arrythmia and tightness in chest have been reduced 60 to 80% give or take, 3 bowel movements in one day versus 2 or 3 a week, constipation is gone. Soreness in joints and muscles greatly diminished and I was able to go out for an hour today just for a walk, this kind of energy is incredible to me.
I'd say the only thing I can't say is 100% a positive because I've had negative experiences in the past with it, is that something is going on with my gabergic system. I'm 95% certain as I've tried many supplements and drugs geared at specific neurotransmitters, and this feels like phenibut without the nausea and drunkenness. I've had bad experiences with gabergics but so far this seems wholly calming and positive for me anyways. I'm stressed out 90% of the time.
I also took a nap earlier and had a lucid dream, I've had a few (3 or 4) in the past, but this was by far the most vivid, I woke up totally refreshed and very content, though the dreams were nightmares, as they have all been the past month.
I'll update after 6 days when I've run out, but if it gets any better my new plan will be 100 to 150 billion daily, and every month a 6 day 500 billion per day round.
I should also mention the probiotic I'm taking doesn't include reuteri, which has been most significantly attached to various metabolic disorders around CFS. But the one I've ordered does.
I will apologize for being blunt but every one of the thousands or tens of thousands of theories can't be correct, many are contradictory. If you think yours is provable then you will have to get it proven, again i know i'm being blunt i don't know what else to say.
This disease is hell and i do look forward to the day we have a disease mechanism and a treatment or cure with great anticipation.
Learner1
Senior Member
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I suspect all cases of ME/CFS are caused by certain subsets of the items provoking the cell danger response, whether its infections, toxins, or something else on the list. For some of us there may be multiple cell dangers.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567724913002390
Dr. Naviaux told me the game is to remove the cell dangers, then move the pathways from winter to summer metabolism and ensure the purinergenic signalling gets fixed, if needed.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567724913002390
Dr. Naviaux told me the game is to remove the cell dangers, then move the pathways from winter to summer metabolism and ensure the purinergenic signalling gets fixed, if needed.
@Thewonders92 It sounds like things are going well but I suggest you look at the Bagnulo video if you have the time.
The sort of pathway that he suggests is one that reduces paracellular permeability so that the bacteria stay in the right place and reduces inflammation.
re probiotic choices I suggest looking at ken lassesen's blog.
You may also want to consider taking some goat or cow colostrum. Colostrum, the first milk that mamals drink, encourages useful bifidobacteria and suppresses less useful/safe bacteria. It also supresses digestive enzymes (and needs to if it is to work) so it is best had away from real meals and it helps if you mix it with something with a fair amount of fibre so that it spreads out and covers the gut as it passes through.
I know that when it is used in a patented mix for aids patients with diarrhoea it is mixed with a cold porridge of rolled rice and banana (I think the banana was banana chips). Not a recipe designed to taste great one suspects. Given the views that Bagnulo expresses in other videos I would avoid bran, but pretty much anything that is low in protein and high in fibre should do.
When I was trying to emulate this I was mixing up about 60mls of colostrum with some fermented Soy (fermented with a bifdo based probiotic) bagnulo would not have approved but I guess I could have used A2 milk and ... and I cannot recall maybe a pear, maybe some fermented and cooked grains.
anyway I hope whatever you do works
The sort of pathway that he suggests is one that reduces paracellular permeability so that the bacteria stay in the right place and reduces inflammation.
re probiotic choices I suggest looking at ken lassesen's blog.
You may also want to consider taking some goat or cow colostrum. Colostrum, the first milk that mamals drink, encourages useful bifidobacteria and suppresses less useful/safe bacteria. It also supresses digestive enzymes (and needs to if it is to work) so it is best had away from real meals and it helps if you mix it with something with a fair amount of fibre so that it spreads out and covers the gut as it passes through.
I know that when it is used in a patented mix for aids patients with diarrhoea it is mixed with a cold porridge of rolled rice and banana (I think the banana was banana chips). Not a recipe designed to taste great one suspects. Given the views that Bagnulo expresses in other videos I would avoid bran, but pretty much anything that is low in protein and high in fibre should do.
When I was trying to emulate this I was mixing up about 60mls of colostrum with some fermented Soy (fermented with a bifdo based probiotic) bagnulo would not have approved but I guess I could have used A2 milk and ... and I cannot recall maybe a pear, maybe some fermented and cooked grains.
anyway I hope whatever you do works