Glutathione - everything I've tried recently has just gotten better and better.

seamyb

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Only tried today but the effects of a very small amount of liposomal glutathione have been immense. I had such a good day. I should really wait a few days before posting but I can't hold my p*ss.
methylation-health.jpg


Does anybody want to shoot me out of my tree? Have you had good success with glutathione and then it pooped out?

Also, several people don't supplement glutathione but supplement the raw materials. I can see this as being the way forward. @Pyrrhus I'm looking at you to chime in here if you'd be so kind... So the raw materials for glutathione are:

  • methylfolate and B12 (I'm probably good for these, I've been focusing on the methionine synthase aspects of these, so I've probably hit a bottleneck with the rest of the things).
  • glycine
  • cysteine (or is NAC + zinc better?)
  • B6
  • B2 and Selenium for cycling between reduced and oxidised (Probably good for these as I've been doing Greg's protocol).
Attached is my favourite diagram of the methylation cycle.
 

Pyrrhus

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Only tried today but the effects of a very small amount of liposomal glutathione have been immense. I had such a good day.
That's great! Enjoy it while it lasts.

I haven't tried liposomal glutathione, just NAC. As far as I know, in order to support production of glutathione, one takes Cysteine (or NAC) and possibly Glycine. Boosting the body's methylation capacity should slow the depletion of glutathione, but it's not strictly necessary for supporting the production of glutathione.

Hope this helps.
 
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When I first tried Liposomal Glutathione I had an excellent response too. I continued with it, and it continued to help extensively for as long as I was taking it.

However I had read that with NAC the Glutathione is created within the cell where it is best utilized (please don't quote me on that). So at another time when things started to wane, I switched to NAC. You need to make sure you're taking the correct co-factors with it, but I have to say I've found things to be better with NAC. Perhaps it's in my head, but I really noticed a distinct improvement in my cognition with NAC over Glutathione, and it's been consistent since then. If you're finding an improvement with that, might be worth trying NAC if your results start to shift in the future (and it's cheaper).
 
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Can confirm that.
Best in my opinion is S-Acetyl-Glutathion, superior to liposomal Glutathion and NAC.

The effect seems logic as Glutathion is the Main detox and antioxidant molecule in the bodybuilding.
 

hb8847

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Does anybody want to shoot me out of my tree? Have you had good success with glutathione and then it pooped out?
Hate to be a mood dampener but I went through a similar high when I started liposomal glutathione a couple of years ago, I had the best month I'd had in a while, but sadly it didn't last and eventually became problematic (probably I needed it but I was missing the necessary co-factors to make it work, and I tried everything!).

Best of luck to you though!

One thing I do find encouraging is how similar so many of our experiences to supplements are, even if it's just the benefits you end up getting from glutathione and not the downsides. It makes me think whatever mechanism is causing our ME/CFS is fairly similar in nature and once some sort of proper solution is found it might work across the board.
 

seamyb

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Hate to be a mood dampener but I went through a similar high when I started liposomal glutathione a couple of years ago, I had the best month I'd had in a while, but sadly it didn't last and eventually became problematic (probably I needed it but I was missing the necessary co-factors to make it work, and I tried everything!).

Best of luck to you though!

One thing I do find encouraging is how similar so many of our experiences to supplements are, even if it's just the benefits you end up getting from glutathione and not the downsides. It makes me think whatever mechanism is causing our ME/CFS is fairly similar in nature and once some sort of proper solution is found it might work across the board.
Hey, don't worry about being a dampener, it's already become problematic lol.

Like everything (barring cumin) that makes me feel better, glutathione gives me air hunger.

I'm 4 days into the iodine vapour, I've been having good signs. Have had some symptoms appear and possible mild enough herx, but also a possible improvement to my overall condition. 4 days is not enough to say anything, but I'm optimistic.

You've already gone down the nasal infection route, is that right?
 

hb8847

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Hey, don't worry about being a dampener, it's already become problematic lol.
Ah, sorry to hear. It so often it's happens with me too, something seems to be working for a couple of days and then stops. I persevere out of desperation and it ends up doing me a lot more harm... Rinse and repeat!

And it always seems to be these medications that tinker at the edges, like they help our detoxing or promote methylation or other body processes. I had the same with Glutathione, also B12, also other antioxidants like CoQ10, also other B vitamines, etc.

I think it's no coincidence there seems to be a section on this site for all of these - all these things are connected and clearly some pathways have been blocked which is contributing to our ME/CFS...

Like everything (barring cumin) that makes me feel better, glutathione gives me air hunger.
What is air hunger? Like breathing difficulties? Did you have Covid, or is this a thing going back a while? I occasionally get breathing stuff but it is due to Mast Cell Activation, it might be worth looking into if you don't know what's causing the breathing stuff?

I'm 4 days into the iodine vapour, I've been having good signs. Have had some symptoms appear and possible mild enough herx, but also a possible improvement to my overall condition. 4 days is not enough to say anything, but I'm optimistic.

You've already gone down the nasal infection route, is that right?
Best of luck re the iodine.

I've not actually tried any nasal infection stuff yet. I did take Nystatin powder orally (diluted in water) for about 9 months and it definitely seemed to help, but right when I was seeming to get quite a bit better my food reactions started to get really bad; I was reacting to everything and no longer able to take any other medications.

That was about 3 years ago and the last 3 years have been dedicated to figuring out what's going on with the food reactions and finding some way of calming it all down. Been a bit of a nightmare but hopefully getting somewhere now.

Once that's sorted I can hopefully get back to addressing other things, and yes that will probably include the nasal spray stuff - I already knew I had fungus in my gut, but earlier this year I got tested for Mycotoxins and these came back positive.

Do let us know how you get on with your nasal spray experiment. Some CFS doctors have had seriously good results with it so I'm quite hopeful it can maybe work for me.
 

seamyb

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What is air hunger? Like breathing difficulties? Did you have Covid, or is this a thing going back a while?
I got sick right at the peak of the covid pandemic. There was no widespread testing and antibodies were negative (which doesn't mean I definitely didn't have it). My illness began with air hunger - this is where you breathe in fully but it feels like you didn't get any oxygen. You feel like you need to keep breathing in past your lungs' capacity. It's a horrible sensation, but my o2 levels are fine and I'm not dizzy or anything. Yawning can allow a proper breath for some reason, even when it's at its worst.

So yea, my illness began with this air hunger. Then it went away completely when all my other symptoms began. Now I can either choose all the other symptoms or the air hunger by taking or not taking things like B12, glutathione, etc.

If I'm not a covid long hauler (and I actually am about 60% sure I'm not), then it's a pretty awful coincidence. I also had whooping cough maybe 5 months prior. Severe cough for over 100 days, ribs felt like they'd break, couldn't breathe in properly after a coughing fit. Not so long after this I began strength training after years of being idle. I have previous severe mold exposure from about 6 years ago. Literal mushrooms growing in my en-suite. Quit an SSRI not long before my illness began. These are the prime suspects, but I can't get a conviction.
 

mitoMAN

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I suggest to wait at least a week before making posts about effective treatments. ITs very common with ME/CFS that we get an effect for a couple of days or even weeks and then complelty vansihes.
 
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I've been taking NAC for about 4 months and titrated up to 6g a day in 3 split doses.

I wanted to re-try glutathione because I was looking for anotehr anti oxidant for dizziness (after exercise) and reactive oxygen species (produced when going for walks).

I should clarify I don't do any cardio I just go for walks.

So I took some glutathione yest, 5ml and I then subsequently crashed and ended up having to go to sleep for about half an hour. It totally counteracted the energy I get from my 2 x solaray 24 strain probiotics, which have been amazing for me. But I find this odd, what could hte glutathione be doing? I found another post where someone mentioned a facebook discussion around this topic and there are tons of reasons why glutathione could be ausing this issue.

I don't suppose anyone's ever had this reaction and subsequently understood it? Or it is simply possible that just like NAC I need to take a much lower dose and gradually titrate up to 10ml?

Another thread discussed how one study found that glutathione potentiates bacterial growth in the got for l reuturi. Reuturi is found in healthy mammals the world over apparently. So it got me thinking are there other types of bacteria it effects too and could that explain my crash?

I do also have a nasty cold at the moment, but after I took the glutathione my cold symptoms got much worse and I was a little confused by that. Could it have temporarily dropped immune function? The effect lasted from 10am to about 7pm and by 9.30pm I was ready for bed. I did sleep fairly well on the plus side.

Thanks for your thoughts!
 
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I guess it could be to do with NAC or something else that's part of the main protocol. But I've honestly got no idea, other than a metabolic imbalance when it hits my body. I've completely recovered today thankfully, just a very persistent and unpleasant cold. I'll try again when the colds gone.

Thanks BC.
 

seamyb

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The immense system uses ROSs to fight infections. I've thrown this theory around before, but it's completely off the top of an unqualified head - maybe the negative effects are because you need the ROS to fight something (probably more pronounced when you have an active virus like the cold) and when you suppress these, you're suppressing your fightback.

Even for me, who can feel like I've never been ill with glutathione, it causes my breathing issues to flare. There's definitely some catch 22 going on where the oxidative stress makes us feel ill, but it's there for a reason and trying to treat it alone is not the way to go.

Having said this, several people seem to have good effects with NAC, yourself included. Maybe glutathione in the blood isn't a great idea but it's fine in the cell? I have some NAC there, but I'm a bit hesitant because of the recent patents and stuff making it more difficult to get. If it does help me and I can't get more I'll be trying to score NAC off a guy under a bypass.

EDIT - I meant the immune system, but I'll leave it as immense system. Hopefully it responds favourably to compliments.
 

godlovesatrier

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@seamyb

Interesting idea. I had no idea how glutathione worked at the cellular level so I find it all quite interesting. I took 1ml last night before bed and slept much better. For me it seems like a massive sleep aid? It makes me very drowsy and a little crashy, but after 9 hours the crash is gone.

At any rate my b12 is sky high and if glutathione uses up b12 in the cell, that might be the reason for the crash like symptoms? Also lowering my b12 at night so it is being used up properly might be important. But who knows.

As for the ROS levels I don't doubt you have a very good point. Before I took the glutathione yesterday the probiotics had me on top of the cold I had, after I took it my cold symptoms suddenly became really bad. So either it activates the immune system, or it lowers the immune defense. Or lowers inflammation dispersing the virus. Who knows!
 

godlovesatrier

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@themjay no cold storage here I bought liposamal - https://www.sacredessence.co.uk/wel...servi-well205-gl&utm_campaign=froogle&cid=GBP

Ok I had no idea I was taking reduced l glutathione, maybe this isn't a very good brand? I am sure I read that this isn't the best sort to take....somewhere. If anyone can let me know that would be great :)

@DrUniverse it does seem to allow certain bacteria to grow in the gut, then again the stuff I take is also full of xantham gum, so maybe that is also causing issues. At any rate my crashy type feelings disappear after I take my double solarray 24 strain probiotic in the AM. I took 1ml last night which really helped me sleep.