Gastritis and general gut health help needed

[caledonia]

caledonia I completely agree with you. I have seen Josh's other videos before but not the ones you shared. I have looked into healing the gut before and done the usual things like betaine HCl, glutamine, aloe vera, bone broth, probiotics.

But since throwing up blood and feeling rubbish I am trying to look into things more thoroughly. And it's really great to see this 4R program. It all makes a lot of sense.

I guess before I didn't feel I had a very bad digestion problem whereas now I'm freaked out!

I'm getting things fairly organised to start sorting things out once I've done my H Pylori test. It takes a lot of energy though to research things - so a BIG THANK YOU

I've done all the same things as you and still have problems. I'm fairly pissed off at my naturopath because he should have known better. I started working with this naturopath 7 years ago. I don't think 4R is that new that they never would have heard of it. All the money I've wasted on gut supps, and magnesium because I've been leaking that out like crazy. Thousands of dollars. Not to mention all the effort going into doing a candida diet, testing for food allergies and avoiding them (I'm still avoiding 30 foods years later).

The one thing I've never done is testing for bugs and killing them off - which I'm doing now. I hope that will be the key to getting this worked out. Then, of course, running the rest of the 4R program.

The above experience is one reason why I no longer rely doctors or naturopaths for treatment advice, and instead am researching and doing everything myself. The research part of my brain still seems to be working, and I'm happy to pass along what I've learned to others, so they can get healed too. So anyway, you're welcome.

 

[Plum]

caledonia sorry to hear about your experience with yr naturopath. I find it hard to find anyone to help me here in the UK. It seems like lots of different people can give you various pieces of the puzzle but never the whole picture.

I try and keep very open minded whenever I see someone but still things pass me by that I only question months later.

Could I ask you what you plan on doing on the 4R protocol for yourself?

I am planning the following:

Remove food allergies - kind of have done that anyway
Eat only organic meat, veg and fruit
Remove household toxins
Blacken out my room so I sleep better

Rainbow light digestive enzymes and organic pancreas glandular

Deworming protocol with black walnut, wormwood and cloves - this lasts 16 days

Prebiotics and probiotics

Some yoga poses for gastric health

Still figuring out the last part but glutamine will be included and then I'm wondering about chia seeds etc.

I wanted to ask do you know of a way of cleansing the gut of bacterial parasites?

 

[Thinktank]

caledonia,

Agree, most doctors are useless. Have you ever heard of functional medicine? Their whole approach is based on the 4R program. Seeing a functional medicine practitioner has been a very delightful experience for me, i agreed with almost everything he said and recommended me to do.
See www.functionalmedicine.org to find one in your area.

 

[caledonia]

caledonia sorry to hear about your experience with yr naturopath. I find it hard to find anyone to help me here in the UK. It seems like lots of different people can give you various pieces of the puzzle but never the whole picture.

I try and keep very open minded whenever I see someone but still things pass me by that I only question months later.

Could I ask you what you plan on doing on the 4R protocol for yourself?

I am planning the following:

Remove food allergies - kind of have done that anyway
Eat only organic meat, veg and fruit
Remove household toxins
Blacken out my room so I sleep better

Rainbow light digestive enzymes and organic pancreas glandular

Deworming protocol with black walnut, wormwood and cloves - this lasts 16 days

Prebiotics and probiotics

Some yoga poses for gastric health

Still figuring out the last part but glutamine will be included and then I'm wondering about chia seeds etc.

I wanted to ask do you know of a way of cleansing the gut of bacterial parasites?

I don't have a complete plan worked out yet as I still need to get my Doctors Data CSA done. But so far, this is what I have:
Remove: Kill off yeast with 7 of the herbs recommended by Metametrix test - oregano oil, berberine, goldenseal, undecylenic acid, caprylic acid, grapefruit seed extract, uva ursi, garlic (2 months)
Continue avoiding allergenic foods.

Retest with CSA to make sure I have it killed off.

Replace: I don't need betaine or enzymes. Metametrix also recommends herbs that aid in digestion - DGL, marshmallow root, dietary fiber and water. So I guess I will do those. (1 month)

Reinoculate: Probiotics - all three of these - Lactobacillus, Bifidobacter, and S. boulardii. Prebiotics - choices are inulin, xylooligosaccharides, larch arbinoglactans, beta glucan, fiber. (need to avoid FOS for yeast) I will probably combine or rotate between several of those. (1 month)

Repair: L-glutamine, EFA's, zinc, pantothenic acid and vitamin C. Some people also say vitamin A and D or simply cod liver oil as a three-fer (EFA's A and D) (1 month)

Maybe one more retest, but I think I can also tell by symptoms if I have leaky gut fixed, as I should be able to restart methylation and not have a huge magnesium leak, which is the point of doing all this. In an ideal world with unlimited funding, I would retest.

The Doctor's Data test may have other recommendations, and then I will re-look at Rubin's videos and the other resources to get some kind of consensus, so the plan may change some.

This may be total overkill, but better that than to not get it right the first time.

 

[caledonia]

caledonia,

Agree, most doctors are useless. Have you ever heard of functional medicine? Their whole approach is based on the 4R program. Seeing a functional medicine practitioner has been a very delightful experience for me, i agreed with almost everything he said and recommended me to do.
See www.functionalmedicine.org to find one in your area.

Thanks, looks like a great resource. I found 5 practitioners within 5 miles.

 

[caledonia]

Just found this article by Dr. Jeffrey Bland who started Functional Medicine and developed the 4R gut program. His program lasts 12 weeks. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-bland/chronic-illness-what-work_b_281228.html

 

[Thinktank]

Just 12 weeks? I think the time of treatment depends on the severity of disease. In the 4R program it's very important to do everything step by step and not to rush anything.
Another popular functional medicine practicioner is Dr. Hymann, he does a lot of self-promotion and but he has some valid points.

 

[physicsstudent13]

I've had bad nausea for a while and it's a lot better after berberine and a PPI pantropozale (nexium didn't seem to work as well) to reduce acid. sometimes I take probiotics too.
I felt really sick after eating fried chicken, maybe I have a gluten/wheat coeliac disease or malabsorption syndrome.

berberine may work against a variety of infections including bacteria, fungi, helminths
did you get an endoscopy?

which doctors will do genetic testing because my insurance doesn't cover naturpathic medicine?

 

[Iquitos]

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/

 

[physicsstudent13]

do you have to eliminate all wheat, gluten and sugar and bread? my nurse friend told me it cured her asthma.
I don't know about taking l glutamine since it may increase glutamate in brain receptors

 

[Iquitos]

It's like quitting smoking: very difficult at first but after a while you don't miss those things because you feel so much better. And just a little can ruin your progress, maybe take you back to square one.

 

[Plum]

Update: My digestion has settled down about 90%. I do get heartburn occasionally still but severe diet restrictions have helped.

I'm only eating meat and veges - all organic and all prepared by myself. For fat I eat organic butter or olive oil.

I have completely cut out gluten, grains and eggs. Have realised very recently that I have an egg allergy.

I am hungry quite often but don't have hypoglycaemia which is great. I am sleeping better.

I don't think that my gut is anywhere near better though and feel that I will possibly need to stick to this regime permanently.

I take pancreatic glandular before every meal (from grassfed cows). Fermented fish oil, probiotics and glutamine in the morning. Colostrum in the evening.

I honestly don't see the point in trying any other type of therapy until my digestion works much better.

I have been learning about the gut microbiome, environmental toxins as well as allergens. Gut problems are hard to deal with!

 

[justy]

Hi Plum, so sorry to hear you have been going through all this - i had severe gastritis symptoms last year for a long while. Not nice.

I'm pretty shocked to hear that as you were vommitting blood they didnt admit you and do an endoscopy immediately. Very bad form if you ask me.

The same thing happened to a friend of mine and she was admitted for two days and given every check up and test whilst in hospital. I really am shocked.

Glad to hear things are settling.

Take care,
Justy x

 

[Plum]

Hi Plum, so sorry to hear you have been going through all this - i had severe gastritis symptoms last year for a long while. Not nice.

I'm pretty shocked to hear that as you were vommitting blood they didnt admit you and do an endoscopy immediately. Very bad form if you ask me.

The same thing happened to a friend of mine and she was admitted for two days and given every check up and test whilst in hospital. I really am shocked.

Glad to hear things are settling.

Take care,
Justy x

Yeah I guess so. I am glad I didn't have an endoscopy as I would've hated it. I still could have to have one in the future. They do a lot of tests to see if you're at risk of something worse so I did feel thoroughly looked at and things had settled down.

The thing I actually hated the most is that as they're trying to find a cause for vomitting up blood they become rather insistent that you must've drunk a lot of alcohol. Apparently this will do it to you. It seems hard for them to understand that I do not drink and haven't done for 4 years. In the UK it seems to be their fall back excuse - LOVELY!

I am still unsure as to why this all happened. 1 month previously I had a really bad few hours of vommiting but no blood. I think now that it was due to toxin overload due to Perrin therapy. I think I was going too often for my body to cope with as there is no other excuse.

 

[GypsyA]

Wow, thanks for suggesting I check out this thread and for all the great resources shared here. I'm definitely taking the advice to take notes, because that's probably going to help my fogged-up brain.

This is thrilling to learn about the 4R protocol...thanks so much for the vids and links, Caledonia!!!

I have a question. As far as food allergies/sensitivities, should we worry about testing for something like that in the beginning? To me, I'm thinking if we follow the 4R steps any allergies/sensitivities will fade away. Don't we have the allergies/sensitivities because of leaky gut?

I'm asking, because I don't want to begin the 4Rs only to find out later that it's not working because I didn't test for/eliminate foods that create allergies/sensitivities. So, is my thinking right...that we don't need to worry too much about that and that as the gut heals those issues will go away, as well? Of course, keeping in mind that one should avoid foods that *obviously* make one ill while the gut is healing.

I am so grateful to all of you for everything you share!!!!

Lots of love to each and every one of you!!

XOXOXO

 

[Plum]

Wow, thanks for suggesting I check out this thread and for all the great resources shared here. I'm definitely taking the advice to take notes, because that's probably going to help my fogged-up brain.

This is thrilling to learn about the 4R protocol...thanks so much for the vids and links, Caledonia!!!

I have a question. As far as food allergies/sensitivities, should we worry about testing for something like that in the beginning? To me, I'm thinking if we follow the 4R steps any allergies/sensitivities will fade away. Don't we have the allergies/sensitivities because of leaky gut?

I'm asking, because I don't want to begin the 4Rs only to find out later that it's not working because I didn't test for/eliminate foods that create allergies/sensitivities. So, is my thinking right...that we don't need to worry too much about that and that as the gut heals those issues will go away, as well? Of course, keeping in mind that one should avoid foods that *obviously* make one ill while the gut is healing.

I am so grateful to all of you for everything you share!!!!

Lots of love to each and every one of you!!

XOXOXO

Part of the 4R program is Removing - and by that we're talking food allergies, toxins, stress, mould etc. Leaky gut has caused some of these food allergies and MAYBE after healing the gut properly you MAY be able to eat some of the foods you were previously allergic too.

If yr gut is inflammed and you eat a food that increases this inflammation (whether in yr stomach or else where in yr body), then that's a huge problem.

I will be the first one to agree that eliminating food allergies is hard. I battle with it constantly. But I have serious problems which I know won't go away unless I am super careful.

I feel that to do the 4R program and not remove yr food allergens might cause unsuccessful healing.

I know gluten is a biggy for people. I thought that that was bad enough but then I recently found out I couldn't eat eggs either. I love cake and have managed gluten free as I could make gf cakes. Now, no cakes due to issue with eggs. BUT I am starting to feel a little better.

The other issue I guess is more of an emotional attachment with food and for your daughter this may be harder as she's still young. I have given up things slowly and I think that's the way to go as you come to terms with how to cook, shop and live with these restrictions. It is hard. But if you take it slowly then you tend to be ok with it

 

[GypsyA]

Thanks, Plum.

Yes, it won't be easy for her, but she wasn't raised on a standard diet, so falling back to whole foods again for a few months to heal her gut is something I know she can do.

So, other than the KNOWING which foods your body doesn't handle well, is part of the 4R plan getting food allergy tested? If so, I have no idea where to start with that. Is there one test that lists foods the body allergic or sensitive to?

If she needs to be tested for food allergies, what are the options? If she doesn't need to be tested for the 4R plan to succeed, does she simply avoid the things she KNOWS her body doesn't handle well, while also including a list of common allergens (like wheat, sugar, dairy, and artificial crap that isn't really food anyway)?

Thanks!!

 

[Plum]

Thanks, Plum.

Yes, it won't be easy for her, but she wasn't raised on a standard diet, so falling back to whole foods again for a few months to heal her gut is something I know she can do.

So, other than the KNOWING which foods your body doesn't handle well, is part of the 4R plan getting food allergy tested? If so, I have no idea where to start with that. Is there one test that lists foods the body allergic or sensitive to?

If she needs to be tested for food allergies, what are the options? If she doesn't need to be tested for the 4R plan to succeed, does she simply avoid the things she KNOWS her body doesn't handle well, while also including a list of common allergens (like wheat, sugar, dairy, and artificial crap that isn't really food anyway)?

Thanks!!

I think the simple answer to food allergy testing is - YES you need to get it done. And yes it is part of the 4R program. Along with cleaning out parasites etc etc. I wouldn't say it's a few months protocol. I would say it's going to depend on how the individual handles it. I have heard some experts talking recently that healing the gut from gluten allergy can take 1 year. And we're talking about non-ME people. And even eating 1/8th of your finger nail sized portion of it will illicit a response so it's hard to eliminate our allergens properly.

A longer answer about food allergies:
If you know things aren't good for your stomach and you eat them anyway - why? I ask this because if yr going to spend money on a test you need to know what you'll do with the results. Will you stick to them or not?
Do you have the money for food allergy testing?

I am in the UK and know that there is a comprehensive test done that costs around £250 but also one that can be done at home for £60/£70. I don't know what is available to you - I suggest posting about this or looking in the section that deals with that
.
There is another way of testing food allergies but I think it is very LONG. Rotation diet. A rough example but you'd have to look it up - exclude gluten for few weeks, introduce a small amount let's say 1/2 piece of toast. Keep food diary for 4 days after - any response? Yes? Exclude for several months and try again. No response? Repeat process with 1 piece of toast.

With people with ME I don't think this is efficient as we could have loads of allergies and not know it.

I personally would find a good blood test that tests at least 50 foods and get it done.

Any decent alternative practitioner would get you food allergy tested.

But you have to also look into reducing other stresses - emotional, chemical, mould etc. These all affect the gut.

 

[GypsyA]

Okay. Yes, it's no sense in getting tested if she's not going to make changes. However, sometimes seeing something in writing...a scientific test showing that your gut issues are *definitely* coming from certain foods....may help her make the necessary changes. I talked with her about the 4R routine and told her it won't work unless she sticks with it...and that we'll start it whenever she feels she's ready to be serious about it. So, the choice will be hers whether she continues living with her issues, or not. :-/ But, at least we'll be armed with what's going on if she decides to move forward with her healing, and we'll know the steps we'll be taking.

It's super expensive, all this testing and supplements. Health has always been a #1 priority in my home, though, so even though we have to do things with credit cards right now, I feel health is worth the debt. This is another reason she has to be serious about sticking with things. She's taking supplements consistently, but I'm not going to add in too much too soon if her gut issues are making the supplements a waste of money.

Anyway, those parenting issues are separate from this forum, so I won't go on about them anymore. I do need to learn as much as possible, though, because even if she won't take her health seriously at this age (18), she will in a few years. Also, my DNA results will be in soon and all that I'm learning will be used for my own healing. So, all comments and suggestions are very much appreciated.

Other stresses are continually being addressed as they crop up. She's been raised in a chemical-free home, exposed to yoga, meditation, an loving family with open communication, etc. I may consider looking into mould testing (?) if either of us isn't getting better with all the other changes (unless the mold testing can be added on to food testing).

I will have to find out if there's a way to test for food allergies here in the states that I can get done on my own (like the GI Effects and Amino Acids test).

I'm learning so very much here. Thanks, again, Plum!

 

[Plum]

Okay. Yes, it's no sense in getting tested if she's not going to make changes. However, sometimes seeing something in writing...a scientific test showing that your gut issues are *definitely* coming from certain foods....may help her make the necessary changes. I talked with her about the 4R routine and told her it won't work unless she sticks with it...and that we'll start it whenever she feels she's ready to be serious about it. So, the choice will be hers whether she continues living with her issues, or not. :-/ But, at least we'll be armed with what's going on if she decides to move forward with her healing, and we'll know the steps we'll be taking.

It's super expensive, all this testing and supplements. Health has always been a #1 priority in my home, though, so even though we have to do things with credit cards right now, I feel health is worth the debt. This is another reason she has to be serious about sticking with things. She's taking supplements consistently, but I'm not going to add in too much too soon if her gut issues are making the supplements a waste of money.

Anyway, those parenting issues are separate from this forum, so I won't go on about them anymore. I do need to learn as much as possible, though, because even if she won't take her health seriously at this age (18), she will in a few years. Also, my DNA results will be in soon and all that I'm learning will be used for my own healing. So, all comments and suggestions are very much appreciated.

Other stresses are continually being addressed as they crop up. She's been raised in a chemical-free home, exposed to yoga, meditation, an loving family with open communication, etc. I may consider looking into mould testing (?) if either of us isn't getting better with all the other changes (unless the mold testing can be added on to food testing).

I will have to find out if there's a way to test for food allergies here in the states that I can get done on my own (like the GI Effects and Amino Acids test).

I'm learning so very much here. Thanks, again, Plum!

There will be various allergy tests I'm sure you can order yourself. 1 thing I wanted to say - if your daughter doesn't want to commit to 100% exclusion of food allergies right now then maybe leave testing her until she is. I only say this as our food allergies can change over time. When she is ready she can get tested then and follow things from there especially if money's tight. But that is of course only a thought from me.

She could try avoiding gluten completely for 6 months and see if she can manage that?

It's kind of weird you mentioning mould testing - I have been looking into a lot to do with mould myself recently and it appears that testing isn't beneficial/possible in the way you'd think. It seems a very complex and indepth issue. I think on a basic level making sure your home isn't encouraging mould to grown etc would be a good starting point. Here in the UK it happens all the time!

As far as supplements go my belief is - if you have gut issues only take what you HAVE to. I have a very sluggish liver and I have to take detox herbs daily so I include them with my gut healing supplements. I should be taking magnesium, multi, b vits etc etc but right now there's no point.

I don't know if you're interested in the Weston Price Philosophy at all? Nourishing Traditions is a great book if you are.