Folinic Acid

[Spleenpoker]

Good day everyone!

I have a question regarding the use of folinic acid etc

Without genetic testing done, is there no way to test whether or not you can make use of folinic aicd?

I have been folate deficient for a few months now, except for some folate from greens and legumes, but can't eat them daily. So I just started folinic acid at 400mcg dose, it's been 6 days now, I figured by taking it, I should see SOME reaction but it's just been business as usual, no good OR bad reaction, like it does absolutely nothing :/ Does that mean it's not being used for methylation? My histamine and chemical sensitives were and still are increasing daily(obviously because of this deficiency) and it's getting harder to carry on. The only reason I've avoided folate supplements until now, is the dogma around here surrounding it's use and how most people ended up in ER from trying them, which is the last thing I needed but I feel I have no choice at the moment. The only source of B12 I am getting is from meat(lamb) and according to Cronometer 180-270%(6.5mcg) but obviously that's not entirely accurate, but I know a lack of working B12 won't help convert the folate anyway.

Is there a way I can test with supplements to see if I have that problem? I can purchase 5-Methyltetrahydrafolate with a capsule that contains 400mcg so its not a massive megadose. If I take 1/4, 1/2 etc and have ANY reaction, good or bad, is that a possible sign that I need methylfolate and the other forms I have tried were useless for methylation or is that not how it works? Then at least I know either Methylfolate or Cobalamin is needed for me.

I posted these questions in another thread but these specific questions didn't really get answered and I am hoping to be armed with all the information to decide the best course for me.

Thank you

EDIT: I was just thinking, but I had a serving of quinoa the other day and about 4 hours later, I was in such a good mood, I also had motivation, both a rarity these days, I am wondering if that's because it's high in thiols and sulphur foods do help sometimes or because it has trimethylglycine in it?

 

[Pyrrhus]

I can purchase 5-Methyltetrahydrafolate with a capsule that contains 400mcg so its not a massive megadose. If I take 1/4, 1/2 etc and have ANY reaction, good or bad, is that a possible sign that I need methylfolate?

Yes, I think that's probably a logical approach. Many people have no problem utilizing folinic acid, but there's always the exception to the rule. (especially if you have a mutation in MTHFR)

If you don't have any reaction to the methylfolate, then you may not be folate deficient at all. Or maybe the effects just won't hit you until you start co-supplementing with hydroxo-cobalamin B12.

Hope this helps.

 

[ahmo]

@splee I don't know if "most people here end up in ER" from folate/folinic. Before I came to pr for methylation info, I tried a variety of forms of folate. It wasn't until I found Freddd's posts that I began making progress. I don't know how it will be for you to judge the efficacy without B12 as well. Once I was progressing, I judged my folate by outbreaks on my face. If I started having pimples, I needed more.

Eventually I discovered that I'm one of the people for whom folinic acid from green veggies blocks folate uptake. Again, I worked that out by following my symptoms. So green veg is no longer part of my diet. I also am one who uses a lot of Methyl B12. I also break out on my face if I eat high thiol foods. And my magnesium contains glycinate.

There are links in my signature to Freddd's protocols. I did test my genetics, but really, my methylation progress was mostly based on symptoms. We're all so individual. good luck.

 

[Spleenpoker]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I've been on methylfolate for about 3 days now with hydroxyB12 and I started to getting quite a bit of anxiety/tachycardia/adrenaline rushes which I assume can be caused by potassium deficiency? The list of potassium deficiency symptoms can really be anything.. Also some mild OCD is happening too.

Then I swapped in methylb12(1mg) in the place of the hydroxy just to see what would happen and my anxiety got worse, not by a lot but still.

Going by my symptom list, folinic caused the same type of reaction. Worse it would seem, even without any B12 supplements.

What does this mean regarding methylation and mutations?

Thanks

 

[Pyrrhus]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I've been on methylfolate for about 3 days now with hydroxyB12 and I started to getting quite a bit of anxiety/tachycardia/adrenaline rushes which I assume can be caused by potassium deficiency? The list of potassium deficiency symptoms can really be anything.. Also some mild OCD is happening too.

Then I swapped in methylb12(1mg) in the place of the hydroxy just to see what would happen and my anxiety got worse, not by a lot but still.

Going by my symptom list, folinic caused the same type of reaction. Worse it would seem, even without any B12 supplements.

What does this mean regarding methylation and mutations?

Thanks

You’ll probably get a range of opinions here, but the symptoms you describe are quite common when first starting out with methylfolate and hydroxy-B12.

Taking potassium definitely helps with the symptoms, but it probably won’t get rid of them altogether.

I personally feel that the best approach to these symptoms is to “start low, and go slow”.
In the beginning, I could not tolerate even the tiniest doses of methylfolate and hydroxy-B12.
It took me years of slowly increasing the dosage, but now I can tolerate standard doses of each.
(400mcg methylfolate per day & 250mcg hydroxy-B12 per week)

It was incredibly difficult for me to deal with those symptoms, but now I can really say that these B vitamins have been one of best decisions I’ve made. These B vitamins have helped me immensely.

Best of luck.

 

[Saint George]

I am homozygous 677t, with some other homo SLC (folate carrier), hetero MTRR SNPS, and hetero COMT and VDR, so the suggestion is Hydroxy-b12. I have ridden the most frustrating rollercoaster when it comes to B vitamins and supporting methylation. For me, I discovered a b1 deficiency which complicates the whole matter as pumping the other b vitamins exacerbates the b1 deficiency and b complexes include thiamin HCL which I clearly am not absorbing. Important to do a nutreval test if you want any shot at navigating vitamin deficiency and need as I believe most other deficiencies should be corrected before methylation is fed. Potassium is a beast I haven't been able to tackle and when I think I am experiencing signs of potassium need, I feed the potassium and then get bad hypoglycemia or brain fog feelings. Hypoglycemia and brain fog are also symptoms of b1 deficiency as well and confuses the whole thing.

The safest b9 and b12 supplements for me are folinic acid and hydroxy-b12. I have strange side effects and anxiety most times I integrate methylfolate or methylcobalamin.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I believe most other deficiencies should be corrected before methylation is fed.

That makes sense. I apologize, I should have mentioned that it is important to take other B vitamins before trying methylfolate and hydroxy-B12.

I personally recommend “B-minus” by the company Seeking Health. This supplement gives you all the B vitamins except for folate and B12:
https://www.seekinghealth.com/b-minus-100-capsules

The safest b9 and b12 supplements for me are folinic acid and hydroxy-b12.

If you feel comfortable with those supplements, then you can stick with them. They are both good supplements.

I know how hard it is to deal with the initial side-effects of B vitamins. I have ridden that roller coaster and it is hell. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there. And remember “start low, go slow”.

 

[seamyb]

Sorry for commenting on an old thread

It was incredibly difficult for me to deal with those symptoms, but now I can really say that these B vitamins have been one of best decisions I’ve made. These B vitamins have helped me immensely.

@Pyrrhus I'm currently taking methylfolate and have had a mixed bag - it helps with the breathing issues that B12 seems to cause, but it causes me to be tired and feel a bit weird. Does this sound like the initial symptoms you had? Should I just keep at it and would you expect them to get better? I'm taking crumbs of mfolate and it's a very strong effect. I'm going to start trying folinic acid alongside it to get some of the other folates.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I'm currently taking methylfolate and have had a mixed bag - it helps with the breathing issues that B12 seems to cause, but it causes me to be tired and feel a bit weird. Does this sound like the initial symptoms you had?

When I initially took methylfolate I wasn't taking B12 at the same time. I waited until I could tolerate methyl-folate completely before I started taking B12.

My notes from that time are not as detailed as I would like, but they say that my start-up effects from methyl-folate included muscle weakness, shortness of breath, "spaciness", agitation, and depression.

(My "spaciness" may be your "weird" feeling?)

Should I just keep at it and would you expect them to get better?

I don't know how long you've been taking it and remember that everyone is different.

But I would give it a good 8 weeks before evaluating if you feel better or worse.

I'm taking crumbs of mfolate and it's a very strong effect. I'm going to start trying folinic acid alongside it to get some of the other folates.

It's good to start with crumbs, if that's what you feel you can tolerate. I wouldn't increase the dose until you feel like you can tolerate the crumbs well.

But there's really no need to take both folinic acid as well as methyl-folate. Either one is probably a good source of folate. (Except if you have a mutation in MTHFR, which might impair conversion of folinic acid to methyl-folate.)

Hope this helps.