Fixing Leaky Gut Helps ME/CFS, and Sometimes Achieves Full Remission

[Critterina]

I don't know if anyone can help??? For the last three years I have struggled with leaky gut,caused by candida, chronic stress and a nasty stomach bug. At this point, I am intolerant to all food and just live off liquidised chicken, turkey, brocolli, cauliflower or spring greens as these seem to give me the least reactions. I take lots of supplements like querticin, digestive enzymes, zinc and magnesium.Have tried everything to heal gut, I can't tolerate bone broth at all.....am getting so desperate as I have no quality of life and if I dont recover soon I will loose my house as I cannot work at present.

@Scoobieworld ,
It's been 2 years since this post. I was wondering if you're feeling better - or even still around. When I was at my worst in food intolerance, the thing that helped the most was a three-day fast of only water that my doctor recommended. Not everyone is a good candidate for one, and I think that doing a version of the 4R gut rebuild program for 8 weeks beforehand helped. If you're still struggling, ask you doctor if he/she thinks you could attempt a fast.
Best wishes,
Crit

 

[dadouv47]

Anyone improved leaky gut issues with hydrolyzed collagen powder? I couldn't tolerate bone broth

 

[Thinktank]

I tried hydrolyzed collagen a few weeks ago for the same reason. Unfortunately i didn't react well to it, i got very anxious and restless probably because of the high histamine and glutamate content. The same thing happens with freshly made bone broth.
I want to try it again though, perhaps i already consumed too much glutamate and histamine that day and then the collagen powder spilled the bucket.

 

[dadouv47]

I tried hydrolyzed collagen a few weeks ago for the same reason. Unfortunately i didn't react well to it, i got very anxious and restless probably because of the high histamine and glutamate content. The same thing happens with freshly made bone broth.
I want to try it again though, perhaps i already consumed too much glutamate and histamine that day and then the collagen powder spilled the bucket.

I didn't know hydrolyzed collagen had so many histamine as well. I reacted pretty badly to bone broth and I thought it was because of histamine (maybe it was because it contains a lot of carbohydrates as well) and that's the reason why I switched to hydrolyzed collagen.
I reacted pretty well on it compared to bone broth (no bloating and pain), but maybe I feel a bit restless as well, but I didn't think it came from the collagen
Did you notice guts issues with the collagen?
David

 

[dadouv47]

@dadouv47 Oh snap - were you intolerant to both chicken and beef bone broth? What about gelatin? I bought some kind of pure beef gelatin, but i haven't tried it yet. That'd probably have the same histamine reaction though right?

I only tried beef bone broth..Maybe I should try with chicken (I also made it with cartilage, which is bad for people with SIBO)

I read that gelatin and hydrolyzed collagen powder are quite similar (maybe it's easier to digest the gelatin) Will see how I react with the collagen first...
I thought there were way less histamine issues with gelatin/collagen powder but I don't know any more

 

[Thinktank]

Hydrolyzed collagen is broken down so i think that's easier to digest.

I had no gut problems with the hydrolyzed collagen.

 

[Starsister]

Just saw this thread and haven't read through whole thing but all the books I have on the subject have always said acidic ph caused by sugar, caffeine, starches and alcohol cause the Candida overgrowth which takes root in intestine causing the walls to be permeable (leaky gut)...In my case unchecked Candida and leaky gut caused chronic congestion, food allergies, fatigue..all kinds of things till I read about Candida in the early 90s. No doctors were dealing with it, even now, so I go on my anti Candida protocol, supplements and homeopathics to get my self a fighting chance at feeling better. Lots of books like "the yeast connection" etc.

 

[Critterina]

@dadouv47 and @Thinktank ,

I just wanted to make sure you're both aware that refrigerating any cooked meat creates histamines within 24 hours, so it stands to reason that if there are refrigeration steps after the initial cooking of the meat, (including refrigerating the broth), that the intolerance you're experiencing could be due histamine sensitivity. (There would be levels of histamines that normal people would not react to). Perhaps if you started with raw bones and froze the product immediately any time you were not cooking it, you'd do better. Not certain, but a possibility.

If you are inclined to try it again, I would suggest that you start with fresh raw bones, then follow your recipe, which probably goes something like: Boil briefly (blanch) to remove nasty stuff, drain, roast about 3 hours, then boil in fresh water to make your broth (24-48h). If you add veggies at the beginning, you'll remove them with the bones. Also, avoid adding tomatoes, tomatillos, peppers (except black peppercorns), spinach, eggplant, certain squash (chayote, spaghetti or butternut - I'm not sure which), and other veggies with naturally-occurring histamines.

I found that it took a whole 4R program (2 years on step 1, 8 weeks of steps 2-4 simultaneously) to do serious gut healing. The lactulose-mannitol test will confirm whether your gut is still leaky or not - very worth the lab fee to me. (And, of course, I also needed to fast in order to decrease the histamine intolerance after the 4R program and test.)

-Crit

 

[Monty79]

In autoimmune diseases first rule to heal leaky gut is to avoid gluten and all grains, there is an elimination diet called AIP to determine on what food groups we are sensitive to. I really would be curious to see what happens if people diagnosed with CFS/ME would try the AIP diet.

In my case I was sensitive to gluten and corn, all other grains (oats, rice, etc.) I can tolerate well. But it was really important for me to avoid gluten AND corn, when I went only gluten-free I still felt ill. Only when I avoided corn as well I was finally on a healing path.

So I know really well how tricky it can be to find out to which kinds of foods we are sensitive to.

 

[PeterPositive]

Corn and gluten were pretty bad for me too. Problem is when I started going gluten free I increased the corn as an alternative to wheat, as I was unaware of the problem with it.
In the next months instead of getting better I got worse until I finally noticed too many "coincidences" between eating corn-based food (such as pasta or corn cakes) and feeling more ill.

These days I can tolerate small amounts of gluten but corn is still on the black list, possibly the worst offender of them all.

Unfortunately while diet can help avoiding extra problems and reduce bad reactions, it doesn't fix issues such as ME. I've spent the past 18 years going through all sorts of elimination, rotation, anti-allergen, you-name-it diets... it surely helps finding out what food can worsen one's issues. But it's no fix

 

[Monty79]

Corn and gluten were pretty bad for me too. Problem is when I started going gluten free I increased the corn as an alternative to wheat, as I was unaware of the problem with it.
In the next months instead of getting better I got worse until I finally noticed too many "coincidences" between eating corn-based food (such as pasta or corn cakes) and feeling more ill.

Yes, this was exactly how it was for me too! When I went gluten-free I ate a lot of the gluten-free pasta that is made out of 70% of corn flour, so first I was thinking gluten was not the problem for me. Only when I went on a grain-free diet and slowly reintroduced each grain was I able to determine that the culprit was corn AND gluten.

I wasn't as courageous as you yet to try small amounts of gluten or corn again as I'm just enjoying the feeling of being healthy again after so many years. Maybe in a couple of months, but really I don't dare to think about it yet, lol.

 

[MaximilianKohler]

Great thread Hip.

Someone posted a question about this here and there's some info you may want to consider adding to the OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/HumanMicrobiome/comments/7ftint/restoring_tight_junctions/

Specifically, I'm very sure my issues are due to intestinal permeability, and apple juice fasting seems to help tons.

 

[ebethc]

@Hip

Have you read that fish oil is either good or bad for leaky gut? I've read mixed things and don't know what the proverbial bottom line is...I've recently found some good quality, cheap fish oils w the right ratios, so I'd hate to lose yet another option for reducing inflammation..

I've been taking 2 different fish oil supplements: one for cognition, itchy eyes, overall pain, sinus pressure/inflammation (DHA 75%, EPA 25%...2-4 grams per day) and one is for general inflammation, pain (EPA 75%, DHA 25% ... 1-3 grams per day).. Both supplements are molecularly distilled, cost effective and neither upsets my stomach


==

@ljimbo423 , @Mirea , @PeterPositive

Yes re gluten and corn... corn is in SO much, too... I switched to tapioca derived vitamin c and it's been great for breaking down histamine... big help w the constant "allergy" feeling (itchy throat/eyes, swelling in sinuses/throat).. the brand I use is Ecological Formulas, but I'm sure there are others...

 

[Hip]

Have you read that fish oil is either good or bad for leaky gut?

I have not come across anything about fish oil for leaky gut.

 

[ljimbo423]

Have you read that fish oil is either good or bad for leaky gut? I've read mixed things and don't know what the proverbial bottom line is...I've recently found some good quality, cheap fish oils w the right ratios, so I'd hate to lose yet another option for reducing inflammation..

Hi ebethc - I don't know for sure that fish oil is good for a leaky gut but it makes sense that it would be. It is anti-inflammatory and I think leaky gut is associated with low grade chronic inflammation.

I just started taking fish oil and curcumin for leaky gut and general inflammation, in the last couple of weeks and feel noticeably better for it.

I'm taking 3 gms a day of epa/dha (6 gms of fish oil) and 500mg a day of curcumin.

Jim

 

[ebethc]

Hi ebethc - I don't know for sure that fish oil is good for a leaky gut but it makes sense that it would be. It is anti-inflammatory and I think leaky gut is associated with low grade chronic inflammation.

I just started taking fish oil and curcumin for leaky gut and general inflammation, in the last couple of weeks and feel noticeably better for it.

I'm taking 3 gms a day of epa/dha (6 gms of fish oil) and 500mg a day of curcumin.

Jim

thanks ... good to know

btw, the DHA/EPA I take is
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MXG1G2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and the EPA/DHA is this one
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015L2LBE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

both really pure and cheap! no fish burps of upset tummy

 

[vaer]

[QUOTE="dadouv47, post: 895697, member: 24640"(I also made it with cartilage, which is bad for people with SIBO)
[/QUOTE]

it is suggested to use Marrow bone for SIBO

(cartilage is high fodmap)

 

[knackers323]

this is a long thread so i may have missed it but what supplements/treatments have people found most beneficial in helping leaky gut?

besides the diet and boiling and adding vitamin c to tap water ( thanks @Hip for that one) what else out of the many recommendations have people found helpful?

 

[Drewjohnson5]

this is a long thread so i may have missed it but what supplements/treatments have people found most beneficial in helping leaky gut?

besides the diet and boiling and adding vitamin c to tap water ( thanks @Hip for that one) what else out of the many recommendations have people found helpful?

Some of the things that have helped me:

1. Low FODMAP - I started eating on the low FODMAP diet. It was tough but the low FODMAP diet is a great way to reset your gut and figure out what foods are causing you issues. More info: https://www.thegutprogram.com/blogs/the-low-fodmap-blog/a-breakdown-of-sibo-ibs
2. Eating Clean - After the Low FODMAP diet I decided to start eating clean, this meant all organic, and no GMO foods. Yes it costs a bit more but the antibiotics in some foods destroy your gut microbiome!
3. Eating Slow - This is not a joke, eating slower helps aid in digestion. Be sure to eat slowly!
4. CBD Oil - CBD oil is a great way to reduce anxiety as well as reduce the receptors in your gut. More info: Cbd Oil For IBS https://cbdoilforibs.com/2018/10/11...-cbd-oil-for-ibs-and-other-gut-health-issues/
5. Meditating - Taking some time each day to meditate is a proven way to reduce IBS symptoms

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I generally feel better across all CFS symptoms if I can stabilize the gut (ie, prevent diarrhea).

I have to share that I've experienced remarkable improvement in my gut by going to my Chinese Traditional Herbalist who provided me the four herbs which target my IBS-D. Within 24 hours: whose bowel movement is that? is that MINE? It was like a miracle.

It makes me cry, these miracles aren't being communicated to the community of victims. It is helping me so much.Each person needs their individual formula, find an expert. Real herbs. Not pills. Its worth driving to California to find an expert: then drive.

Why chase tests. I can tell: this is not a cure for the ME/CFS, but its a great tool for reducing the misery. And its helping with anxiety. And I'm absorbing nutrients better: isn't that simply DUH LOGICAL? If your system is going too fast, your not getting enough absorption,no PHD needed here.

The doctors aren't helping us. Chinese Herbs are amazing. The ones I take, generally, that aren't for the intestinal issues, are also miraculous.

I've also eliminated most SUGAR. Erratic blood sugar is gradually settling down. It actually wasn't that hard, as at some point: you get grossed out by the thing you used to eat (Cookie Monster,here). Now, its kinda yuck, that cookie. A few raisins or grapes work. My joints are alot better. My brain is still inflamed, however, daily. This again suggests I'm not curing the problem, but reducing the misery index, which is at least something.