Finally Found a Treatment...Can Anyone Please Explain This?

[gregh286]

hypoxia is a main driver of me/cfs.

Correct

 

[Swim15]

I don't understand the mechanism exactly but I have to think it has something to do with dopamine. My reasoning is because I took a bunch of things to raise dopamine three days ago and had the best day I've had in years.

The bad part is that I'm in a crash today even though I skipped those supplements yesterday to cycle them and even rested but taking them again today isn't working.

I thought this too but I’m totally intolerant of stimulants normally. Caffeine, Adderall, literally anything and MAOIs haven’t helped.

My guess would be stimulants stress the body, increase oxidative stress, stress the adrenals, and cause vasoconstriction so long term they’ll likely make things worse

 

[Swim15]

@Swim15 what dose of cabergoline are you taking? do you have an online source?

Low doses. 0.5mg per week is plenty

 

[Swim15]

How long have you been on this combo? How long have you been in remission due to it? Before trying other drugs to test the mechanism, wouldn't it be better to stay on both for a while to see if it has lasting effects?

Inadvertently used it for several months last summer and still working a year later.

Continuing is something I’m wrestling with but it like to try and elucidate the mechanism as it could be extremely valuable

 

[Swim15]

I’m torn on trying new things but at this point I think vasodilation is my best guess at a mechanism in combination with the ITPP carrying more blood to tissues.

Going to look into alpha blockers for vasodilation as well as try some beta-2 agonists.

Next to that I think meldonium could be a good addition to this stack as well.

I need to trial it some more but I added some citrulline this morning and seemed to help further.

 

[valentinelynx]

Maybe I'm wrong here but for the alpha adrenergic 2 receptor, if you block it, that increases adrenaline as it is a feedback receptor, so if cabergoline is an agonist there it should decrease adrenaline.
I think this is how mirtazapine works.

Yes, alpha-2-agonists, such as clonidine, dexmedetomidine and guanfacine block sympathetic nervous system activity by blocking adrenaline release.

 

[JES]

hypoxia is a main driver of me/cfs.

If hypoxia was the primary driver, wouldn't that then also imply more or less the following?

- Worsening at high altitudes
- Worsening when sitting in airplane due to lower cabin pressure (typically cabin pressure is around 6000 to 8000 feet above sea level, which will reduce blood oxygen saturation notably)
- Big improvement when using an oxygen generator or inside a hyperbaric oxygen chamber

One symptom I frequently used to have before was air hunger, but I never noticed it would get massively worse back in the days when I still regularly traveled with airplanes. Vice versa, I never noticed any curative effects of HBOT.

 

[godlovesatrier]

All good counter arguments here @JES suspect it's more complex than just the singular treatment, with the old what works for one person.

 

[hmnr asg]

I was reading this whole thread and it seems to have abruptly ended around July ! If @Swim15 really found something so effective I hope he can give us an update if he is still benefiting from this combo ?
Also, did anyone else try this ?

 

[bread.]

If hypoxia was the primary driver, wouldn't that then also imply more or less the following?

- Worsening at high altitudes
- Worsening when sitting in airplane due to lower cabin pressure (typically cabin pressure is around 6000 to 8000 feet above sea level, which will reduce blood oxygen saturation notably)
- Big improvement when using an oxygen generator or inside a hyperbaric oxygen chamber

One symptom I frequently used to have before was air hunger, but I never noticed it would get massively worse back in the days when I still regularly traveled with airplanes. Vice versa, I never noticed any curative effects of HBOT.

well I would say flying made me a lot worse tbh.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

One symptom I frequently used to have before was air hunger, but I never noticed it would get massively worse back in the days when I still regularly traveled with airplanes.

Perhaps because it was a mundane event for you. When I've traveled by air, I was always quite excited and breathing rather purposefully.

 

[Swim15]

I was reading this whole thread and it seems to have abruptly ended around July ! If @Swim15 really found something so effective I hope he can give us an update if he is still benefiting from this combo ?
Also, did anyone else try this ?

I’ve changed my combination slightly -

Dropped the Cabergoline out and noticed some decline in bowel movement quality/increase in IBS type symptoms. I’ve noticed that for a while now though with caber and would assume it’s due to the effect on gut motility.

I tried adding meldonium for a while up to 2,000mg per day but didn’t notice a great improvement so didn’t keep it in.

I also added 1mg klonopin every other day and that’s helped a large amount.


So right now the stack is:
ITPP 250mg per week (inject)
BPC 157 300mcg daily
Klonopin 1mg every other day



The ITPP here is the largest key for physical symptoms and the klonopin for cognitive. I’m likely going to toy with adding 10mg of memantine, and possibly some rasagiline, next to continue to calm glutamate excess, microglia, and any neuroinflammation going on.


This took me from almost bedbound to working part time. This still isn’t a treatment for CFS though - just the symptoms so I’ll be starting a heavy protocol here in the next few weeks to actually treat the CFS hopefully.

 

[sb4]

You found somewhere new to get the ITPP @Swim15 ?

 

[Swim15]

You found somewhere new to get the ITPP @Swim15 ?

I’ve had some for several years that I haven’t used. I did manage to get more from a friend recently that wasnt using it though so I’ll have maybe 40 more weeks worth that I think will combine well with the therapies I’m about to start

 

[Swim15]

I’m really surprised that this drug isn’t more widely available or pushed through trials quicker because it’s a really incredible compound and there’s really nothing like it in existence that I’m aware of

 

[gintrux]

Could you please share a source for ITPP? I have it on my to try list for like 6 months now, science.bio never has it.

 

[Swim15]

Could you please share a source for ITPP? I have it on my to try list for like 6 months now, science.bio never has it.

Don’t have one currently but I’d try alibaba probably

 

[stefanosstef]

ITPP, it is in my buying list because I've read about it again, maybe here.I'm also quite improved from a similar drug, pramipexole, although high dosage.You can check my journal for documentation.

 

[Swim15]

ITPP, it is in my buying list because I've read about it again, maybe here.I'm also quite improved from a similar drug, pramipexole, although high dosage.You can check my journal for documentation.

I’d be careful with prami, especially high doses. Lotta potential for DAWS if it’s used for very long

 

[Alvin2]

I’d be careful with prami, especially high doses. Lotta potential for DAWS if it’s used for very long

Oh yeah, Mirapex is well known for causing obsessive and compulsive behaviour, hallucinations, dyskinesias and has quite the reputation as a drug to be avoided. Also it helps to have several people around to monitor the patient (preferably with a signed Power of Attorney) for side effects and be able to restrain them if they lose their minds or start compulsively gambling or make delusional decisions or put themselves in jeopardy or very rarely even commit crimes they would not do "sober".
Hyper sexuality is also to be watched out for.

I am unfamiliar with what DAWS means.