For those who missed the crucial link that proves this leak is completely reliable:
http://www.sanquin.nl/ipfa/Upcoming_Events.nsf/Web%20Body?OpenFrameSet&Frame=Body&Src=%2Fipfa%2FUpcoming_Events.nsf%2F0%2Fcbfb86b6bbdcc818c125706600483652!OpenDocument%26AutoFramed
I don't know whether they intended these Workshop notes to be publicly available, but at the time of writing, they are...perhaps worth mirroring...
All the info in the newswire seems to come from a slide in presentation 4-1 (which is fascinating). Doubters of the veracity of the leak need to theorise that this whole conference and the slides in the PDFs are another part of the Great WPI Swindle. Tips on the construction of wild conspiracy theories are available to remaining WPI-sceptics on request.
Some interesting quotes in the presentation, to be handled with care since some of them are not saying quite what one may at first assume, and interpretations of the last slide should be interesting...
I think this bit is a fundamental cautionary note suggesting to us what the next step has to be:
I seem to remember we got that 500 million estimate on record a few weeks ago Alex, we are looking damn close. God i hate being right...not.
Nobody welcomed Dr Gert Schuitemaker to the forums, that I saw, or thanked him for his confirmation, where are your manners people? Welcome Gert: I absolutely love this little quote to pieces, you are so right:
I hope you'll stick around and share more with us here Gert, I'm sure that would be very valuable for everyone.
@cfs_since_1998: "What do they mean by related MLVs?" - There are minimum 6 known strains of XMRV, they have obviously branched further out on the phylogenetic tree of XMRV since then, and the related MLVs are not actually XMRV but part of the family. It also means: Lots of different types of us, lots of detail, there are differences between us but we are all connected; against everyone's expectations, the wastebasket has a lowest common denominator after all.
Esther12: "There are lots of things about the WPI which are kind of.. yeah. If their results get validated I couldn't care less though."
Any change to your percentage estimate based on this news Esther? As you know, I think all those 'you're-not-quite-playing-by-the-rules what's-the-big-hurry' things about the WPI are more kind of YEAH!!! Actually, there are a whole lot of things about the prepared minds of the WPI that are kind of YEAH!!! When the replication of their results is published, maybe all those of us who didn't make the historic breakthrough that finally cracked ME/CFS will wonder whether there may be at least a little method to their madness after all. Conceivably they may be right about a few other things too, having got a year or two's head start...
@Mr Kite: "I know if I went to any doctor with this information, they would still say the same thing: that there's nothing they can do because there is still no proof that XMRV causes CFS. Which is true. Then they would continue implying it was some kind of psychological malady or defect."
I didn't get where I am today by trusting doctors Mr Kite. Just because they say stuff doesn't mean you have to respect it. The point about non-mathematical "proof" being subject to interpretation is correct. This is not about proof, but about truth. The evidence is overwhelming. The ME/CFS literature has been begging the question as to why our T and NK cells are malfunctioning for some years, so a retrovirus known to selectively infect those cells and subvert their functioning sounds like a considerably more likely explanation for that behaviour than cosmic rays to me. Immune dysfunction is what retroviruses do. Immune dysfunction is what we have. XMRV infects the precise cells that are damaged in us. Occam's Razor does the rest.
Otis: "I've always felt that mentally that I felt that if I knew what I was fighting it would be part of the equation to getting better. Of course I didn't imagine it might be in my DNA...". Really, did that never occur to you? I have assumed that for several years, ever since one of Dr Myhill's associates explained that the root cause of my vitamin deficiencies lies in corrupted DNA, and showed me how it all traces back through the biochemistry. I have known my DNA is screwed up for many years, and that I am probably infectious. That's why the immune vulnerabilities never actually go away even when you've learned to recognise and manage them. Yes you are right, knowing what you are fighting definitely does help you to get better. :Retro smile:
Koan: You know what, there might just be something in this XMRV business after all...
Elliot: Loving to see you getting over-excited at last!
sproggle: Cool to see you around, have Panorama phoned yet?
@Wessely: Thinking more seriously about cells lately? :tear::tear::tear:
XAND: :victory::victory::victory:
http://www.sanquin.nl/ipfa/Upcoming_Events.nsf/Web%20Body?OpenFrameSet&Frame=Body&Src=%2Fipfa%2FUpcoming_Events.nsf%2F0%2Fcbfb86b6bbdcc818c125706600483652!OpenDocument%26AutoFramed
I don't know whether they intended these Workshop notes to be publicly available, but at the time of writing, they are...perhaps worth mirroring...
All the info in the newswire seems to come from a slide in presentation 4-1 (which is fascinating). Doubters of the veracity of the leak need to theorise that this whole conference and the slides in the PDFs are another part of the Great WPI Swindle. Tips on the construction of wild conspiracy theories are available to remaining WPI-sceptics on request.
Some interesting quotes in the presentation, to be handled with care since some of them are not saying quite what one may at first assume, and interpretations of the last slide should be interesting...
I think this bit is a fundamental cautionary note suggesting to us what the next step has to be:
XMRV is still not near top of the agenda, perhaps we can all explain to the president why it should be (retroviruses are not mere viruses; inheritance of genetic defects; potential to cause lifelong debilitating illnesses with no known cure or treatment, global economic costs counted in trillions of dollars of losses already, 500 million affected, etc etc etc)Perception: Everyone wants better, safer blood
Reality: No one wants to take a risk or incur the cost of new approaches to achieve this in the absence of either a crisis or a major push by the healthcare community or public at large.
Perception can become reality only if costs are low.
I seem to remember we got that 500 million estimate on record a few weeks ago Alex, we are looking damn close. God i hate being right...not.
Nobody welcomed Dr Gert Schuitemaker to the forums, that I saw, or thanked him for his confirmation, where are your manners people? Welcome Gert: I absolutely love this little quote to pieces, you are so right:
http://www.foodmatters.tv/_webapp/the teachers"Dr Schuitemaker believes we must first look at how we can help the patient through nutrition and supplementation before any type of medical treatment begins."
I hope you'll stick around and share more with us here Gert, I'm sure that would be very valuable for everyone.
@cfs_since_1998: "What do they mean by related MLVs?" - There are minimum 6 known strains of XMRV, they have obviously branched further out on the phylogenetic tree of XMRV since then, and the related MLVs are not actually XMRV but part of the family. It also means: Lots of different types of us, lots of detail, there are differences between us but we are all connected; against everyone's expectations, the wastebasket has a lowest common denominator after all.
Esther12: "There are lots of things about the WPI which are kind of.. yeah. If their results get validated I couldn't care less though."
Any change to your percentage estimate based on this news Esther? As you know, I think all those 'you're-not-quite-playing-by-the-rules what's-the-big-hurry' things about the WPI are more kind of YEAH!!! Actually, there are a whole lot of things about the prepared minds of the WPI that are kind of YEAH!!! When the replication of their results is published, maybe all those of us who didn't make the historic breakthrough that finally cracked ME/CFS will wonder whether there may be at least a little method to their madness after all. Conceivably they may be right about a few other things too, having got a year or two's head start...
@Mr Kite: "I know if I went to any doctor with this information, they would still say the same thing: that there's nothing they can do because there is still no proof that XMRV causes CFS. Which is true. Then they would continue implying it was some kind of psychological malady or defect."
I didn't get where I am today by trusting doctors Mr Kite. Just because they say stuff doesn't mean you have to respect it. The point about non-mathematical "proof" being subject to interpretation is correct. This is not about proof, but about truth. The evidence is overwhelming. The ME/CFS literature has been begging the question as to why our T and NK cells are malfunctioning for some years, so a retrovirus known to selectively infect those cells and subvert their functioning sounds like a considerably more likely explanation for that behaviour than cosmic rays to me. Immune dysfunction is what retroviruses do. Immune dysfunction is what we have. XMRV infects the precise cells that are damaged in us. Occam's Razor does the rest.
Otis: "I've always felt that mentally that I felt that if I knew what I was fighting it would be part of the equation to getting better. Of course I didn't imagine it might be in my DNA...". Really, did that never occur to you? I have assumed that for several years, ever since one of Dr Myhill's associates explained that the root cause of my vitamin deficiencies lies in corrupted DNA, and showed me how it all traces back through the biochemistry. I have known my DNA is screwed up for many years, and that I am probably infectious. That's why the immune vulnerabilities never actually go away even when you've learned to recognise and manage them. Yes you are right, knowing what you are fighting definitely does help you to get better. :Retro smile:
Koan: You know what, there might just be something in this XMRV business after all...
Elliot: Loving to see you getting over-excited at last!
sproggle: Cool to see you around, have Panorama phoned yet?
@Wessely: Thinking more seriously about cells lately? :tear::tear::tear:
XAND: :victory::victory::victory: