Fatigue during methylation and feeling sleepy.

[surfer girl]

@ahmo -
Cortef worked for me at first but I crashed a couple later and haven't been able to get back off. I went on it after clearing my Reverse T3 and realizing that I had an adrenal, not a thyroid problem (no Hashi's). I am hoping that my methylation issues are the cause of my adrenal problems.

I tried coffee enemas too, but perhaps not for long enough. I stuck with it daily for a couple months without any noticeable results and started to worry that despite what I had read that my body really was absorbing the caffeine. Maybe I should consider starting up again...

Can you tell me more about your adrenals clearing? Curious to hear how you knew it was happening, what led up to it, and what the experience was like!

Also, I will try raising folate to stop the hair loss asap. Do you happen to know why the need for more folate causes hair loss? It's always helpful to understand why!

 

[ahmo]

@surfer girl I'd never focussed directly on my adrenals until an adverse folate episode. I documented this on the High Methylfolate thread. I kept having sx of folate deficiency, so kept > Mfolate. At some point it became clear, especially showing in my face, then in pain in kidney area, my adrenals were stressed. After some research, I gathered that my high folate might be stressing adrenals. I stopped all my cooked veg, which propelled my ongoing detox practice into high gear.

At the *end* of this process, it was clear that my adrenals had been unburdened. Many things shifted for me at that point. No more of the persistent irritability, agitation, my tinnitus disappeared. I now know when these reccur to again clear w/ coffee enema. Much as I've been thrilled with these results, I must say I wish I had an alternative. At the time of the adrenal crisis I could only tolerate low doses of thyroid w/o adrenal pain. I'm now slowly moving up my dose, hoping that as I > thyroid, I'll also improve liver's ability to detox w/o the CEs. But I also recognize that I have genetic impairments in my detox pathways, and some sort of extra help is inevitable.

You might look in the pdf linked in my signature. there's a section on folate. I don't retain this info in my working memory, hence the compilation.

 

[Gondwanaland]

When I was playing with B2 levels I found out that B2 higher than 5mg would make my hair fall copiously. Perhaps it's due to increased need of iron and copper. I also learned that higher doses of one B vitamin will increase the need of gpoing higher with another B as well and then it's a vicious cycle of increasing doses.

izzy

 

[Aerose91]

@Avalon

Just wanted to say that I have this too. I just started mb12 about a week ago and I've since felt sleepy and lethargic all day every day. Plus my circadian rhythms have gotten worse. Hope this is a stage to healing!

 

[Avalon]

Ok, well my sleepy phase is over!. However, my insomnia is back, it's due to mfolate @ 1/3 of cap of 400mcg.
I have now had a few days off subs started mb12, sleep ok and reduced mfolate to 60 mcg.

Adrenals, I've done pregnolone etc, the problem for me seems to be with methylation, I need bring up slowly!

 

[Aerose91]

@Avalon. Sounds like you are going through stages of healing. I always told myself, if something can change, it can go away!

 

[debsicle]

itching and fatigue can be a sign of low potassium too - i get both of those symptoms. Particularly the itching which makes me look like i have fleas. i am having the opposite problem at the minute with my methylation- I am tired in the evening at the right time when i am sitting on the couch but as soon as I get into bed then BING! wide awake and awake several times in the night and not at all sleepy. hopefully it calms down soon!

 

[JL Cass]

Another thing, have any of you experienced stuffy/congested nose, I have noticed that my nose has become very stuffy and is particularly noticeable on waking in the morning. This has only come on in the last few weeks.

I found your thread on a search for methylation and fatigue. Yes - I am experiencing a lot of the same things as you. Actually within a week of starting my protocol - about 5 weeks ago - got a HUGE cold. Now it seems like whenever I titrate up in mb12 and folate dose, I get very tired and also get post nasal drip and even a little achy (I started for CFS & depression not fibro) at night for 3 -5 days. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one! Thanks for your post! Hope you are feeling better! I also take the mb12 and folate in the evenings as they do just in general make me sleepy ... although sleepy during the day when I titrate up, but only sleepy at night otherwise

 

[surfer girl]

@surfer girl I'd never focussed directly on my adrenals until an adverse folate episode. I documented this on the High Methylfolate thread. I kept having sx of folate deficiency, so kept > Mfolate. At some point it became clear, especially showing in my face, then in pain in kidney area, my adrenals were stressed. After some research, I gathered that my high folate might be stressing adrenals. I stopped all my cooked veg, which propelled my ongoing detox practice into high gear.

At the *end* of this process, it was clear that my adrenals had been unburdened. Many things shifted for me at that point. No more of the persistent irritability, agitation, my tinnitus disappeared. I now know when these reccur to again clear w/ coffee enema. Much as I've been thrilled with these results, I must say I wish I had an alternative. At the time of the adrenal crisis I could only tolerate low doses of thyroid w/o adrenal pain. I'm now slowly moving up my dose, hoping that as I > thyroid, I'll also improve liver's ability to detox w/o the CEs. But I also recognize that I have genetic impairments in my detox pathways, and some sort of extra help is inevitable.

You might look in the pdf linked in my signature. there's a section on folate. I don't retain this info in my working memory, hence the compilation.

 

[surfer girl]

@ahmo, my experience is totally mirroring yours! I increased my folate dose (like you recommended) & my hair loss completely stopped. I leveled off for a couple months, continuing on a high dose of methylfolate (2400mg or more p/day) & my adrenals are now totally crashing. I can tell b/c I get a string of symptoms when it happens (freezing cold feet, burning scalp pain, thinning hair, etc).
I've tried coffee enemas & everything else I can think of to try to "unburden" my adrenals but can't seem to achieve that result. I've also searched your posts (per your previous suggestion) & haven't found much additional information. If you can provide me with any additional suggestions regarding how to proceed, I would greatly appreciate it. (Your tip about increasing methylfolate to stop hair loss already improved my life invaluably!)

 

[ahmo]

@surfer girl Sorry to hear you're having troubles. Are you eating green veggies? It was only when my adrenals were showing signs of stress that I realized that vegetable folate (folinic) was blocking uptake of Mfolate, which is why I kept needing more Mfolate. I no longer eat any green veg, as it seems to take very little to create symptoms.

BTW, I now take 1/3 the amount of folate I did when swallowing the capsules. I now place in lower gum, or footbath or enema, if the time coincides. I've gone from needing 15mg to 5mg. Adrenals v happy about this!

There have been a number of overlapping forums, summits, webinars over the last month. One frequent speaker is Dr. Alan Christianson. He's just come out w/ a new book, The Adrenal Reset Diet. You might find him speaking about it on youtube. http://www.amazon.com/The-Adrenal-Reset-Diet-Strategically/dp/0804140537

Presumably (!) you're not eating gluten...It seems all the experts agree this is the place to start for any of our problems.

I'm afraid that my adrenal experience is purely that: my experiences. I can only link some sites that have added to my understanding. There's a very close relationship of adrenals and thyroid; how's your thyroid?

http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/autoimmune-disease


http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/adrenal_burnout.htm

 

[surfer girl]

@surfer girl Sorry to hear you're having troubles. Are you eating green veggies? It was only when my adrenals were showing signs of stress that I realized that vegetable folate (folinic) was blocking uptake of Mfolate, which is why I kept needing more Mfolate. I no longer eat any green veg, as it seems to take very little to create symptoms.

BTW, I now take 1/3 the amount of folate I did when swallowing the capsules. I now place in lower gum, or footbath or enema, if the time coincides. I've gone from needing 15mg to 5mg. Adrenals v happy about this!

There have been a number of overlapping forums, summits, webinars over the last month. One frequent speaker is Dr. Alan Christianson. He's just come out w/ a new book, The Adrenal Reset Diet. You might find him speaking about it on youtube. http://www.amazon.com/The-Adrenal-Reset-Diet-Strategically/dp/0804140537

Presumably (!) you're not eating gluten...It seems all the experts agree this is the place to start for any of our problems.

I'm afraid that my adrenal experience is purely that: my experiences. I can only link some sites that have added to my understanding. There's a very close relationship of adrenals and thyroid; how's your thyroid?

http://www.tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html

http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/autoimmune-disease


http://www.drlwilson.com/Articles/adrenal_burnout.htm

 

[surfer girl]

I'll bet you're right about the veggies! Have you given up cooked and raw green veggies? I actually thought all cooked veggies could block m-folate. Is it really just green?
I am also absorbing through the lower gum. It has definitely helped absorption.
Not eating gluten or dairy.
My thyroid does not seem to be my primary problem but I've been on & off thyroid supplements (low doses) for years.

The relationship between the adrenals & folate is amazing to me. I was able to get off cortef completely in the last 3 months taking high dose m-folate. This is the first time my adrenal symptoms have returned. If eliminating green veggies work, I will be ecstatic. Thanks again!

 

[ahmo]

I was able to get off cortef completely in the last 3 months taking high dose m-folate.

Wow, that's impressive!

For the time being, my only veg is carrots, which I juice and eat pulp raw. I've commented on a thread started by Kimsie re need for rest and the science behind it, that at present, in an exhausted mode, my body is demanding many extra carrots. This seems to me to be to combat oxidative stress. I won't try green veggies again until I go through another layer of gut cleansing. No idea if that will change things, or if this is just how it will remain for me.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I think fatigue and sleepiness can be due to elevated ammonia.

 

[zephyrprime]

I think fatigue and sleepiness can be due to elevated ammonia.

Ammonia is a stimulant not a sedative.

 

[GreenMachineX]

@Freddd or anyone else
I’ve been experimenting more with my b12 and methylfolate and it’s been an interesting experience. I haven’t found the methylcobalamin brightening ceiling yet and the amount I had yesterday gave me the most uncomfortable stimulation/brain buzz/insomnia with slight headache. It also makes my muscles super tight and brings out the angular cheilitis.
But, if I take enough methylfolate to counter the angular cheilitis and loosen up my muscles, it makes me sooooo tired. It’s hard to function I’m so tired, and I feel a bit disconnected. But, no low potassium symptoms either way and I’ve been doing this for almost 2 weeks. It’s just been flipflopping between the 2 states and I can’t find the middle. Do I just need to ride out the tiredness with methylfolate because that’s when I have healing? Any suggestions?

I’m also on synthroid and my levels are in perfect levels EXCEPT reverse t3 was elevated above the range. My ferritin levels are 58, so good enough, right? Maybe the elevated methylfolate level brings me to “normal” but the high reverse t3 is the true culprit in feeling bad?