Fasting - full water only variety - has anyone here tried it?

[Learner1]

her argument is that multi-day fasts have been shown to reduce inflammation and promote autophagy, which I find particularly interesting. If it works.

Not eating foods that your allergic to or are junk foods will likely decrease inflammation. Not eating foods that are healthy and have high quality nutrients your body needs can contribute to inflammation. Starving yourself can make things worse if you're already ill. Much of the hype is aimed at "healthy people" not people with serious illness.

As for increasing autophagy, sleep, exercise, resveratrol, curcumin, coffee, and several other things increase autophagy. For a good rundown on this topic, this might be helpful:

https://selfhacked.com/blog/autophagy-benefits-and-how-to-harness/

Your practitioner dies not sound very scientific, unfortunately. It might be wise to pin her down for evidence in the blain's she's making.

I do have nutritional deficiencies and problems with methylation, which I’ve been treating with supplements for the last 4 months. Molybdenum and L Lysine supplementation specifically have gotten me to the point where I’m able to take NAC and not experience the horrible side effects of methylation.

So, you've found that increasing nutritional support can help. That's great. It really can help a lot.

Stopping nutrition can reverse progress and make progress more challenging. At worst, it cause refeeding syndrome, not a good place to be.

should know one way or another in a few days here, and I’ll post the results of this n=1 experiment.

It seems quite unlikely you can know that youre successful with water fasting or supplementing in a few days... How do you measure autophagy? Toxicity? Nutrient status?

 

[Bassaur]

Thank you for your concern. I am under a doctor’s care here, so it’s probably wise to continue, despite what I read on the Internet.

I feel fine, and had more energy, clearer thinking, and zero pain during fasting. I’ll probably work with her to find a way to measure autophagy and inflammation in the future, I have over the years tried sleep, resvratrol, curcumin, coffee, and exercise, and am done with them as they caused further side effects.

I appreciate your intent, but this is my path, and it’s unlikely that ditching actual medical advice from a physician who knows me is a good decision at this point.

 

[Learner1]

Thank you for your concern. I am under a doctor’s care here, so it’s probably wise to continue, despite what I read on the Internet.

I feel fine, and had more energy, clearer thinking, and zero pain during fasting. I’ll probably work with her to find a way to measure autophagy and inflammation in the future, I have over the years tried sleep, resvratrol, curcumin, coffee, and exercise, and am done with them as they caused further side effects.

I appreciate your intent, but this is my path, and it’s unlikely that ditching actual medical advice from a physician who knows me is a good decision at this point.

Oh, obviously work with a medical professional. However, as someone who has been harmed by multiple things taken as prescribed by more than one doctor and am currently dealing with 2 doctors giving me very bad advice, I've learned to be skeptical, do my own research, listen to others experienced, and make my own decisions, including finding a better doctor when needed. This is a complex illness, if you indeed have ME/CFS, and no doctor, no matter how brilliant, has all the answers.

Good luck on your quest.

 

[GreenEdge]

I’m currently in a 3 day fast, recommended by a new doctor. I’ve been pursuing relief from ME for 6 years now, and was going between Keto amd carnivore diets when I originally became aware of symptoms.

I fully expected to feel absolutely terrible while fasting, but instead, I feel pretty good. I haven’t pushed myself at al, and have had a couple cups of bone broth to help make it easier. But my mind is clear, emotions feel stable, I don’t feel absolutely crushed with fatigue like normal, and my chronic cough has eased a bit.

As I enter into day 3 here, I’m considering whether to make this a regular part of my treatment.

For me fasting is now natural and effortless - not forced.
When I get sick I have no interest in food at all. That is the only time I fast.

When water only fasting for several days (before I healed), I would get a gut ache that would build up slowly - which I thought was hunger. When long fasting on carnivore, hunger should diminish. If you live off your fat stores, hunger should not return until your fat stores are exhausted. When hunger does return, it should come on rapidly.

I now know the difference between hunger and healing gut pain. That 'hunger like' pain I felt, was my gut healing. Mistaking it for hunger put food in my belly that would interrupt my healing gut.

I found I had to be strict on Lion Diet.

Last year, I had 2 recoveries (see my posts: 29th September and 27th November) both lasting about 1 week.
Both occurred after 5+ days of fasting. I'm now on my 3rd recovery (20th February 2023), this time after only fasting for 2 days.

The progression I've made looks like this:

• Keto Diet (5 years) - difficult to maintain ketosis thus making fasting difficult at times.
  • Carnivore Diet (11 months) - easier to stay ketogenic making fasting easier.
    • Lion Diet (6 months) - guaranteed to be ketogenic, fasting is easy.
      • Human (Instinctive Lion Diet) (1 month) - fasting is effortless an instinctive.

My gut is now healed and my quality of life is on the up.

 

[gregh286]

Yep fasts are some.job. tough at start
Great fuel from ketones.

 

[MeMeMe]

@GreenEdge Glad you’ve had such good results from dieting.

I definitely seem to have had a baseline improvement from massively reducing carbs. I do eat porridge in the morning as I understand it lowers cholesterol which is high for me even though I eat well. I think high LDL is a function of my ME. Viral infections can cause high LDL as viruses use cholesterol for their lipid shells i believe so trigger overproduction. I don’t have any virus biomarkers in my blood apparently although I believe that’s common in ME. But generally I avoid carbs for lunch and dinner unless I feel shaky and weak, in which case I might add a small amount of sweet potato. Mostly baked chicken breast, fish and lightly steamed vegetables. Avoid frying and oil generally.

What’s the instinctive diet? Couldn’t see anything online. Interested in tinkering with diet as I think it’s a big lever we can pull to treat ourselves via the gut biome.

 

[GreenEdge]

What’s the instinctive diet? Couldn’t see anything online. Interested in tinkering with diet as I think it’s a big lever we can pull to treat ourselves via the gut biome.

"instinctive" is my own words. I'll try to explain what I mean.

- To know what to eat, learn to trust your own senses and don't over think things.
- However, before you can trust your senses, first you need to end food cravings.
- Many processed foods are designed to be addictive, so you consume more.
- If you eat sweet flavors you will desire sweet flavors and make unhealthy choices.

If you adopt the carnivore diet you will eliminate all processed foods and sweeteners. After a few weeks you will free yourself of food cravings. And if you adopt the more strict lion diet, you will also eliminate processed meats and dairy. For me the most improvement came when going from carnivore to lion diet. Eliminating those last few carbohydrates made all the difference.

There's so much more I would like to say... I found this video says it all...

 

[GreenEdge]

 

[MeMeMe]

That’s great, thank you. I’ve also found cutting out processed foods and carbs has been a big help although I do sometimes get weak and shaky if i have 0 carbs. So will add a few thin slices of dry baked (no oil) sweet potato if I’m feeling that way. Becoming attuned to what your body needs is a real skill. Not sure I’m there yet.

 

[GreenEdge]

That’s great, thank you. I’ve also found cutting out processed foods and carbs has been a big help although I do sometimes get weak and shaky if i have 0 carbs. So will add a few thin slices of dry baked (no oil) sweet potato if I’m feeling that way.

When I started the keto diet, for the first month or two, I had a similar experience before I saw a dietitian to check I was doing it correctly. From what I told her, she though it was likely that I was getting to the point where the body is low on energy and about to switch to fat metabolism, but each time I had prevented it by eating something. She also suggested buying a device to test ketone levels.

I ended up buying this cheap breathalyzer:
[GALLERY=media, 875][/GALLERY]

Note: The more expensive breathalyzers will only detect alcohol and will not detect ketone breath. The cheap ones mistake acetone on your breath for alcohol. The advantage besides cheap price is no ongoing costs other than batteries. It takes 3 x AAA batteries. I don't drink alcohol, so I can equate any non-zero reading with being in Ketosis - a metabolic state that occurs when your body burns fat for energy instead of glucose. A typical good reading for me is between 75 and 95 (or higher).

This particular device makes you wait ~30 seconds before it will take a reading and when the reading is over 0.05% it sounds an annoying alarm for 10 seconds before it automatically switches off. I suppose I could take it apart and cut one of the wires to the speaker. Also, the back lit screen would consume batteries quicker. I still think its one of the better ones for its easy to read screen.

I find it very easy to fall out of Ketosis (without knowing), so it's a useful device to have.

 

[GreenEdge]

I have discovered that you don't need to fast to obtain the benefits of Ketosis.

I don't think this effects fatigue, but who doesn't want to be happy and at peace?

For the last week I have been in such a good mood, I would say I'm happy. But my situation hasn't changed; my behavior hasn't changed. I found an explanation on Amber O'Hearn's website: The Ketogenic Diet for Health

Ketosis Without Starvation: the human advantage
[GALLERY=media, 876][/GALLERY]
On a high carb diet, you might need to fast to attain an enlightened brain state. On a ketogenic diet, as a human, that doesn’t appear to be necessary.

It feels like a coffee high , only it's permanent.

I'm in an enlightened brain state without fasting...