Exploring Shamanism

Oerganix, I thought I'd just go ahead and start another thread, not sure if this topic is going elsewhere.

I read some books by Hank Wesselman and started using his drumming CD for meditation. Drumming really is helpful for tuning in. At least for me it is. I tend to drift into sleep or get distracted by stupid stuff. The books were about his experience with "journeying". Reading about his journeys helped in some way to facilitate my own. For years I got nowhere with meditation and now it comes easily, with or without the cd. I don't hear anything (but drumming in the background) but I see things. I don't always know what it means.

You mentioned that you think this illness may have something to do with some lessons. I see it a little differently. I don't see this life as a series of lessons, I see it as a series of experiences. I also believe we choose our experiences on some level. We can either be actively choosing what we experience or sitting back and letting life happen to us. I think for a long time I just let life happen, come what may. I certainly didn't consciously choose "sick". But on some level, I must have let it happen by the choices I made, be that actual conscious choices or not paying attention and letting stuff happen.

I believe in our ability to create our own reality, our experiences, both personally and globally. Which doesn't say much for some of our choices. Actually, globally, I think it says it's time we start paying attention and choose a different tomorrow. Stop letting it just happen and participate.

Personally, I had to accept that I create my world and take responsibility for it. That wasn't easy. I really wanted to blame somebody else for it. Still do. While I still think somebody unleashed something on us, I have to accept a part of the responsibility for allowing it. Then choose differently, every day.
Another possibility all this opened up was that in "that other realm" we aren't sick. That's an earthly physical experience. I think it's possible to tap into that "wholeness" and bring it back and have it be a part of this reality. That doesn't mean I think everyone can meditate once and bring back "healthy" and be cured. Although maybe some can. It doesn't seem to work quite that well for me. I do seem to be able to bring back ideas of what to do to get there. I'm working on that now. I added a different supplement today and am seeing a change already. Too soon to see if that was the key, the missing link.



Yes, I believe as you, that we have chosen our experiences here in this lifetime, for a path of learning.

Choosing our own reality, yes, a most interesting topic.

Yes, the Blame Game, is what I call it. I have learned now to face the Mirror to Myself, and see what my part is in it. And always Gratitude for the lesson.

Love this topic of Quantum Physics, and the different realities we may be living in, all at the same time.

The Michael Teachings, a very interesting read....

Hi Rainbow11

High time science and spirit made a connection, isn't it? There are several writers out there connecting the dots.

What are the Michael Teachings?

More interesting reading along this line are the Neale Donald Walsh books, Conversations With God. Nothing like the title implies. They are all about us being the creator, individually and collectively. Creating our own reality.

It's tough to give up the blame game and take responsibility for everything about ones life. Even more difficult to see how one fints into the global picture.



Oh, yes, I do so agree about science and spirit leaving the World of Separation, as we all are. And, yes, so exciting that the dots are being connected.

The Michael Teachings make some sense of the soul progression idea. You have to use the "The with Michael Teachings" when doing a search. Lots of info.... a very good read.

Yes, I agree, I have read Conversations with God, it was very enlightening for me, to know that it is okay.... to have a conversation with Creator.

And I so agree, about us being the Creator.... and connecting with our Source, for me, my heart chakra.

Yes, very tough to give up the blame game... also very tough to quit judging, especially ourselves.

But very freeing once you learn how.



Senior Member
Rainbow, I'm a Michael Student. You?

There is a yahoogroups forum for Michael Students which I no longer frequent, but the whole way of looking at personality vs soul helped me understand and accept a great deal about myself and other people. The Michael Handbook: A Channeled System for Self Understanding by Jose Stevens, who also writes about shamanism, is the best Michael book for my money. It all started with Messages From Michael by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro.

Stormyskye, thanks for starting this thread. Regarding drumming, one of my councelors was into drumming and did a session on me once. She came back feeling that most of my energy was "somewhere else". Which didn't help much with this life/dimension. Now, later, I guess the message was more likely one of Acceptance. From another source I get the message of the day and today it was: What you resist persists. That which we accept transforms. And from the Mindell book, instructing the novice shaman: Ride the waves of change. Don't create them. (Haven't entirely got a handle on that one, yet. I welcome comments.)

In the Michael Teachings, they (Michael is a collection of 1050 "souls" now on the Causal Plane, the one above the Astral, whose work is teaching.) posit that before we incarnate we choose certain "overleaves", personality characteristics, to help us learn/experience all there is to being humans on a spiritual path. I chose Discrimination (also called Rejection) for my normal point of view. Its compliment is Acceptance. Discrimination is one of the most difficult orientations because it involves discerning what the proper criteria is for making choices. Each orientation has a postive and a negative pole and life works best when you operate out of the positive pole, but you also learn by your mistakes while operating out of the negative pole, too. It is just more painful.

The Michael Teachings and some other sort of "paranormal" experiences got me more open minded to other than intellectual and physical manifestations of "truth" and "reality". The Michael Teachings are good for someone with an intellectual orientation, like me. But, now I see the need to develop emotionally and spiritually by other means. Not to exclude the intellect, but rather to balance it with the other possible ways of knowing.

I'm really excited, when I have the energy to be, about the EFT techniques that use the acupuncture meridians and tapping them yourself, to change the energy connected to past negative experiences. That guy we all know and despise is partly right to think that, for instance, childhood sexual abuse can leave "permanent" scars. One study even purports to show changes in DNA for those who have such experiences, but I doubt anyone would be able to control for all the other possible negative experiences in our past to make this claim for sexual abuse alone. (Which brings to mind the adage that even a stopped clock has the right time twice a day).

Changing the negative energy connected to past experiences is also what I'm learning about simultaneously in the Arnold Mindell book The Shaman's Body. He calls it erasing personal history so that you are no longer brought down by the past and can slip into the stream of here and now without drowning by carrying all that excess, now useless, baggage. Or Wu Wei, in Taoism. Path of non-resistance in Buddhism. Path of Heart in Casteneda's shamanism. All the same or similar, it seems.

My favorite Taoist story about letting go of excess baggage, with apologies to the original authors:
A Taoist monk was traveling from his monastery to another. He was a carpenter by trade. He came to a river that had no ferry. Using the tools he was carrying, he built a beautiful boat and crossed the river successfully. He then put his beautiful creation on his back and traveled on. He left the forest, crossed the mountains and came to a desert, all the while expending a lot of energy carrying both his carpentry tools and his beautiful boat. In crossing the desert he became so exhausted that he was almost ready to give up. Some voice, his inner voice or ?
told him "Drop the boat". He did, and made it successfully across the desert and to the new monastery.

So, now I try to discern what "beautiful boat" I need to drop. Erasing personal history seems to be it, for me, for right now. So, I thank this website for the thread I read on EFT and for getting back into looking for a "cure" for what ails me, whatever that may be.

Rainbow, enjoyed that youtube. Here is another good one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4VMZb8wLY&NR=1
I'll check out those videos a bit later.... thanks!

You've got my mind swimming with ideas this morning! Any discussion along this line opens pathways and I love that. While my objective might be helping someone else, I always learn much more than I expect.

Every choice is perfect, always. But one will be a harder path. Also perfect. Sometimes we seem to need the hard road to really experience the difficult side. That seems to allow appreciation for life of the "yang" side of the experience.

Your're energy that is somewhere else - It's recoverable. I had to do this too. You can do this while meditating. But first you need to truly look at where the scars are from and let go of the anger. It's like accepting that it hurt you but it wasn't about you, from their experience, that was their baggage. Then be prepared for surprises. I like to fly, up above, while meditating. For this I needed to go down, like exlporing the roots of a tree. I was hesitant, down seems dark and mysterious. It wasn't. The surprise for me was that I was carrying an anger that I wasn't aware of for someone I love dearly. I didn't realize I was holding her responsible for something she knew nothing about. Once you see and acknowledge, then let go of it, the healing begins. You can meet that missing energy there, near the "roots" so to speak. Mine showed as a small shy child. Me. "She" needed time to reconnect with me. Much to my dismay, I had been holding her responsible too.

I learned this via shamanism. The drumming seems to tap the meridians for you. Many ways to one end.

I've also learned that I don't need to forgive. I just needed to stop judging. If one is truly not judging anyone for their actions then there's nothing to forgive, is there? Tough one, for me.

Connecting it all to our illness -
I may not have consciously chosen to be ill. But on some level I allowed it, either by not making choices consiously or just letting things happen as they may, or chosing it on some deeper level. This is the life experience for me that allowed understanding of compassion, learning that judgement has no place in the human experience, letting go of deep seated religious training that wasn't working, and heightened my quest for understanding the body/mind/spirit connection. Layer upon layer of understanding, day after day. Not a day goes by without a new "understanding. Once the ball begins to roll, if one is open, it continues. Each moment is a moment of choosing how the experience will play out.

There is no down time. Eeach choice is a cause and effect thing (what karma really is). From what I choose to eat, to what I choose to think about, to what I choose to do. Each and every moment is a layer of choosing and they affect the experience. Nothing is punishment or a lesson I must learn, but rather, an experience that I am choosing to experience. I can't take responsibilty for creating part of it. It's all of it. AAnd I can change any part that I choose.


Senior Member
Stormyskye: "But first you need to truly look at where the scars are from and let go of the anger"

Yes, absolutely. And that is what I am learning to do with the EFT and the shaman exercises. Much harder to do than I would have thought. My mind recognizes the truth but my emotions don't want to let go of that "righteous" anger, etc. For me, it's about "getting it" in the "gut", which they've found has neurons similar to those in the brain, and if I remember right, Edgar Cayce told us a long time ago.

And that this life is all about making choices and taking responsibility for them is exactly the Michael Message.
I'll have to do some reading about Michael. Many messengers, one message. The more I study from more messengers, the more I'm able to connect the dots.

As in - Karma =eye for an eye = cause and effect .

And each messenger has their own way of putting it. Some of them don't translate into English all that well. It's hard to put a simple English word in place of many Tao words. And the concepts don't always translate as they were originally intended. Many things from the Bible have been interpretted in such a way as they no longer have the same meaning as when they were written. Reading from new messengers often puts those things into a new perspective, making it easier to replace a concept with something that does work, that does make sense. I learned that an eye for an eye meant cause and punishment. It just isn't so. So, I'm off to do a little reading about Michael........


Oerganix and Stormyskye..


I'm a very new Michael student. What I have learned so far, is that all of us are okay right where we are at.

There is no special bonus points for an old soul versus an infant or baby soul.

This was profound for me, as that bit of information enabled me to quit feeling the need to "save" others, and concentrate more, instead, on working on myself.

And, working on myself, not from a judgment standpoint, but just enjoying the journey.

I find it interesting that whole groups of people may be traveling together in a soul journey, perhaps incarnating together over and over, till all the lessons are learned.

I like what you wrote, "What you resist persists. That which we accept transforms, And from the Mindell book, instructing the novice shaman: Ride the waves of change. Don't create them."

I was fortunate to hear a lecture this past Sunday at a spiritualist church, and the teacher took us all on a journey, via meditation, where we did just that, rode a surfboard, and he taught us how to "ride the waves of change."

Perhaps these wise words from this teacher may help:
"Stop the Train of Drama in your Life."

"Reality TV helps you to GLOOM In and crucify others."

"Be in the Ocean of caring through your heart."

"Be true to yourself."

"Never separate from your infinite source."

"Learn to stay in the Flow without control and Fear."

"Dont let the Shadows hinder your path."

"Bless the Shadows and their Path."

"Hold on to Love, even though the surfboard may wobble with the waves."

"Think of love as a vibration."

"Hear the sound of love."

"Work with the nature beings."

"What energies do I produce that hinder my Path... and cause the Waves?"

"The thoughts today create the reflections of tomorrow."

He instructed us to use the Owl and the Eagle in our meditations. They are sacred spiritual beings.

"Eagle provides perception to get up high and look back."

"Use the Owl to find the Secret in the Darkness."

"Use the Eagle and the Sun to touch the Heavens and Earth."

"Look in the Mirror of your Sacred Self."

"The Dark Serves the Light. That IS ITS Purpose."

Stormyskye.... what I used to do was avoid my own issues, and how I did this was concentrate all my energy on "saving" others, when it was really me who needed the saving.

Again, The Micheal Teachings were an eye opener for me, as it allowed me to drop all my compulsive behavior in this arena. I realized that in my efforts to "save" everyone, I was, in a sense, judging them.

Judging has been something I have been working on diligently for the past two years.

It came to my attention that even "forgiving" someone else, is a form of judging them.

It then became easier, instead of forgiving, to simply release the person.

By "releasing" instead of forgiving, you can then release the person from contracts that you, yourself, set up with this person, before you were incarnated in this life.

Stormyskye, I like what you wrote, "Every choice is perfect, always. But one will be a harder path. Also perfect."

I will remember this one... it is a keeper.

What has been most beneficial for me, is re-connecting with ancient knowledge, what I call the Mirrors of Life.

I most assuredly must have been an Essene in a past incarnation.

Now, I am actually grateful for those button pushing incidents.

I don't stuff down the anger, when someone pushes my buttons.

I, first, Honor my Anger, as it serves a Purpose.

Holding on to the Anger, however, I've found to be not beneficial.

Then what I do, is I turn the Mirrors of Life to myself, and I ask my Angels for guidance, to show me the Lesson for myself.

What is in this Lesson, for me? Getting to the root cause of the Anger, sometimes, is difficult, but that is the Joy of the Journey.

Then, when Truth is revealed, the Truth of why you are really Angry, then Healing can begin.

Gratitude, always, for the lessons.

And Gratitude for the wise words you both have provided today.

The minute you think you are the teacher, you become the student. The minute you think you are the student, you become the teacher.

Saving others. I can relate on that one. While it's a wonderful endeavor to help others when you can, there is always an experience in there for you. You become the student. Notice I used the word experience rather than lesson. For me, lessons implies that there is something I must do to progress or something I may have failed to pick up on. Not so, whatever the "experience" is at the time, is right, is perfect. There is always something new to learn and experience. I have not "failed" in some way on a lesson, then must repeat it. There is no "must" about it. I can choose to experience it or not. I did learn that I can not choose anyones path but my own. I can share mine, put it out there for others to see. But ultimately, they are in charge of their own path. I have to be happy with that, whatever their choice is.

As I was reading the Michael material eirlier today I saw my son. They were describing his phase of life so perfecly,it fit him perfectly, like an old beloved t-shirt. It's a daily battle for me to let go and let him make his own choices. He doesn't listen, he's 21. He knows everything and I surely am an idot and don't understand him....:tongue:

It is in these situations that I struggle with judgement. It frustrates me. I battle with this often but I'm getting better at it. I have to check myself often and sometimes fall on my face. Ones expectations of others will never measure up.



Sounds to me as if you have a very good "handle" on Life.

Yes, teacher, student..... we all are both.

My personal life tribulation was my Mother, her abuse toward the whole family, but in that dysfunction, miracles were achieved for me.... strength, independence, the ability to see truth.

On the flip side, I had to search long and hard to find love, and be able to trust.

I survived, my brother did not.

I spent most of my life trying to save my brother, and he resented it every step of the way.

You see, if you read The Michael Teachings, you will see that people are where they are at... for a reason... and one cannot miraculously go from an infant/baby soul... to an old soul.

The Journey is long and takes thousands and thousands of incarnations.

So what is the rush? No rush..... might as well just step back and smell the roses.

Perhaps the next incarnation I will be my Mother.... and she Me.....

It is interesting, now that she has passed in this life... and the Angels have worked with her... she now visits me regularly and we are able to both heal our hearts.

My brother and I get along so much better now.... now that I have stopped trying to "save" him. All he really ever wanted... was to be accepted and loved for who he is... and where he is at.

That is all I ever wanted as well. We were kindred spirits travelling together on this soul train....... perhaps thousands of incarnations apart.... but really just the same.

Love.... unconditional love.... how many of us truly know what this really means?

I feel as if I am a babe..... just taking baby steps... just really beginning to understand. And I, supposedly, am an Old Soul.....

How truly difficult it must be for an Infant/Baby Soul to comprehend this?

Good morning, I read someplace that the infant actually remembers "the other side". How interesting is that? Up to about age 2. There are many stories about the very young, who talk well, relating info about past lives and past relationships with family members.

We all walk some hard roads. My goal now is to see the experiences that are so difficult and experience them through others but take slightly easier roads myself. And when I find myself on a hard road, to see it with joy. We can still experience the difficult and learn to appreciate the yin and yang of it, without actually walking in those steps, at least not physically. I'm not there yet, evidently, money is still tight around here....:confused:

Unconditional love is a really hard one. Some people are easy to love, some, not so much. And there lies the challenge. To see them as a part of you, because they are, and love them unconditionally. Knowing it and living/being it are two very different things.
Oh, I don't know how good of a handle I have on life, but I am very open to ideas. Any time I find myself doubting something that may be a truth of some sort, I get whacked along side of the head with some other experience that tells me it is, indeed, truth. I've learned the hard way that it's easier to be open to new ideas and let them gently become a part of my belief system.

Most importantly, I've learned that I do have everything I need. I don't need to look for answers, or find something, or seek it out. It's right there in front of me at all times. I don't need to depend on someone else to fix anything for me. I can do it. It's like "dressing for success". This applies to health too. I don't need tests or things I can't afford. Good health isn't just for the wealthy. It was all right there in front of me.
Food for thought - something I have no answer for. Why did thousands of people check out in Haiti at the same time? An earthquake is the obvious answer. But there is likely something deeper going on there. Which brings me to - why do millions of people have peculiar health issues now? Why was I somehow on some level ok with it for 20 plus years? You'd think I could have experienced everything I needed or wanted too in a much shorter span of time. But beyond the personal level, there is clearly a global level to this also. Mass consciousness aspect. Where is it leading?



Yes, unconditional love.... that is a tough one.

Should we love unconditionally everyone? I'm not sure. I know I am not capable of that yet.

I am capable, though, of casting hatred out of my heart... and replacing it with love, if the need arises.

For this I am grateful.

It has become easy for me... to just merely Accept things.... accept that person for who they are, at this point in time.... and try not to judge their path.

I feel it is not necessary, at least for me, to unconditionally love everyone.... but for me, it is necessary to cast hatred aside.

As to the infant remembering the "other" side up to the age of 2, yes, I have heard that as well, and do believe it to be so.

I so agree with you... that everything we need... is right there....

Yes, a good question to ponder... of why thousands of souls would choose to "check out" at the same time, earthquake, tsunamis, etc.

I remember someone asking that question to the teacher I had that enlightened me to The Michael Teachings, and she said that those souls all chose that path, as a mass consciousness type thing.

I am still pondering on this...... as I am pondering on this "suffering" and "sacrifice" path that some of us have chosen.

And, yes, I do believe you most definitely have a very good "handle" on life's mysteries and the journeys we all take.

They must have chosen that beccause it happened. But why?

Look what I found on the Michael site - "A bored, frustrated, or blocked Artisan will always find ways to be creative, even if it means creating an interesting disease."

I was reading about the different personalities and found that. Food for thought......



Yes, I do remember that, as well, about artisans..... interesting and some good food for thought.

Here's another one.... that our planet as well is on a soul journey......... that is where the mass consciousness thing comes in, that when a great amount of souls like that choose to exit at once, that it is somehow helping our planet as well, with its progression and journey.....

It can get a bit complicated.... the more you get into The Michael Teachings. Of course, Earth is but a mere speck in this Universe, and one cannot even imagine how many universes there are out there.

I was having a hard enough time with imagining the Parallel Universe thing,
where we are living another life... with other choices, but it was told to me once there are a gazillion universes.... and holographic dimensions spinning off of those universes with bits and pieces of ourselves.... the thought of it is mind boggling.

I am a scholar/server..... another interesting tidbit... that supposedly the Roles you choose stay with you with each incarnation.....and that your group of souls that you chose to incarnate with at the start of the cycle... well, all must complete the cycle of levels and soul ages before the soul group progresses to the progression, whatever that is.

In other words, it could be a bit more complicated than when you die, you are then judged and go either up or down... and could also be a bit more complicated than just your soul "ascends".

Seven levels to each Soul Age.... and then once you reach the end..... none of you go anywhere until all of your soul group reaches the end.... it may take thousands of incarnations, or more, to progress from one Soul Age to the next.

So if there are multiple souls traveling and incarnating together...... wow... what is the rush? I almost have to chuckle to myself now when someone gives a talk on "Ascension."

But, if so.... does tend to give one a little bit of impetus to resolve some of this so-called karma with souls you "know" you surely must be incarnating through Time with.

And then where does the Group Consciousness of Souls go when all have completed their Journey? Does that Group of Souls then choose to help another group with their Journey? Perhaps this is one place where Channeled Entities come from?

I believe I am "early" on in the Old Soul level category, perhaps even in this lifetime, finishing up Level 7 of Mature Soul, and beginning into the first level of Old Soul. Can make for an interesting Journey when one is doing that, progressing from one soul age in one lifetime to another.



Senior Member
Ashland, Oregon
Unconditional Love

Good morning, I read someplace that the infant actually remembers "the other side". How interesting is that? Up to about age 2. There are many stories about the very young, who talk well, relating info about past lives and past relationships with family members.

Hi Storymyskye, Hi Rainbow,

I've heard that if you ask a child up to 4-5 years old, "What did you do when you were big?", they will tell you! And you'll often get some interesting answers!

Unconditional love is a really hard one. Some people are easy to love, some, not so much. And there lies the challenge. To see them as a part of you, because they are, and love them unconditionally. Knowing it and living/being it are two very different things.

by Rainbow

Yes, unconditional love.... that is a tough one.
Should we love unconditionally everyone? I'm not sure. I know I am not capable of that yet.

Hi Storymyskye, Hi Rainbow,

I feel one of the most important things I've learned and have come to understand (fairly well) is the difference between unconditional love and human love.

Human love, with a strong emotional element to it, should be reserved for those close to us, like family and close friends. Unconditiional love on the other hand, should be given to all. This is possible when we don't try to extend our emotiional love to them.

Human beings need each others' unconditional love. So much of daily human interaction is this steady flow of giving and receiving love. It's a big part of what makes this forum so valuable to so many of us. I think we've all seen references such as, "this forum is a lifeline" to me. I always feel they're referring, in large part, to the unconditional love that flows on this board among us.

This is the reason I've always had such a visceral reaction to the practice of "shunning" (a group withdrawing unconditional love) that often occurs in certain religious communities. For sometimes the most trivial reasons, they will feel justified to shun certain members of their sect and withdraw their love. This to me is cruelty. How they can justify it is really quite beyond me.

I had a recent experience with somebody who was close and dear to me. Someone I considered one of my best friends and with whom I've had a strong and lifelong bond of love and trust. Well, she did something to me that I would describe as a deliberately malicious. It shocked me to my core.

This was about two weeks ago, and since then, I've found myself going from shock and anger (emotional element) to one of realizing I have to withdraw my warm and personal love (for my protection, if nothing else). But I have found myself being able to sincerely think to myself, "may the blessings be" (extending my unconditional love). In short, be well on your own spiritual journey home to God.

It's been very freeing to be able to do this as it helps me get over the shock and anger I initially felt and which had become a terrible burden.

I haven't yet read the entire thread here, but anticipate doing so. Perhaps I'll have a few more words to offer when that happens. :Retro smile: