Mary
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I very recently learned the very hard way that excess copper can cause insomnia - in my case, severe insomnia. According to Copper Toxicity: A Common Cause of Psychiatric Symptoms | Psychology Today
And according to the same article, the following are associated with copper overload:
Sound familiar? (btw, I'm not crazy about Psychology Today as a source, but I think this is a good article)
Also see Why do you have Insomnia? (holisticpharmd.com)
I’ve been taking a copper supplement (2 mg) for several years on my former ME/CFS orthomolecular doctor’s recommendation. Unfortunately he died about 5 years ago. Interestingly, he originally practiced as a psychiatrist until he discovered that many of his patients had nutritional imbalances causing their symptoms, and that became his focus. He was the only doctor I had seen up until that time who even believed ME/CFS was real.
Anyways, several months ago I decided to double my dose of copper. I can’t remember why. It wasn’t a smart thing to do. (You don’t need to lecture me - I’ve already kicked myself enough!) Many things are forgiving (at least for me) if I increase or decrease them a little (vitamin C, magnesium, certain of the Bs) but copper is not one of them.
Some of you may have read my summer vacation post where I describe in great detail how my long-planned summer trip to see family in Texas was derailed by severe insomnia of a type I’d never experienced before (wide awake from 11:00 p.m. to 5.:00 a.m.) And it seemed the culprit was high dose liposomal vitamin C - my sleep improved after I cut that out and returned to my regular vitamin C dosing. (I’m now wondering what effect the high dose vitamin C had on my copper metabolism)
Only my sleep was still problematic, though not as bad, in the ensuing weeks. And it was getting worse, again, a few nights with only 2 hours sleep. And all my usual stuff wouldn’t touch it.
Well, I finally found the ultimate culprit (I think!) - excess copper. About 6 days ago copper came to mind, I read about it and bingo! I immediately stopped the supplement, and increased my zinc (now taking 22 mg zinc in the a.m. and 50 p.m. with dinner) and also increased molybdenum to 2 mg (taken at night) and I immediately started sleeping better. It’s been about 5 nights now and it feels too good to be true, but I’m finally sleeping again.
Copper helps produce adrenaline. So this explains why I was waking at 11:00 p.m. with a surge of adrenaline, and I could feel my BP going up - at 11:00 at night, after being asleep - WTH? Well, now I know. I’ve seen many here write about being awakened by adrenaline surges so urge you to look into copper.
(One other culprit with severe insomnia is high cortisol at night, which I’ve also experienced, but this was different, and also Seriphos (phosphorylated serine, not phosphatidyl serine) which is very effective at normalizing cortisol levels (when taken in the morning) didn’t help this time.)
The above articles talk about excess copper being stored in the body and how zinc can mobilize it, so that your symptoms can get worse initially when taking zinc. I’ve been on the lookout for this, but fortunately have only slept better since I cut out the copper and increased my zinc. And the increased zinc is temporary (I know - excess zinc can cause its own issues).
I’m getting a hair analysis done - my former doctor used to order one each year, and he knew how to interpret them. The company I’m working with now also provides an analysis - e.g., after the last one I had done 3 years ago, they told me that my magnesium/calcium ratio was way off, very heavily skewed in favor of calcium, and recommended I stop my calcium supplement and increase my magnesium. I did that, and immediately started sleeping better (sleep or, rather, insomnia, has been my bete noire for many years) I eventually added some calcium back in, but only half of what I had been taking, and was doing okay until recently. I learned it’s not just levels of various mineral that are important on hair analysis, but the ratio of various minerals to each other.
I also plan to get blood work done to measure ceruloplasmin, serum copper, zinc and will see what my (new) doctor recommends.
I’m now wondering if many or most people with ME/CFS might have a fundamental derangement in copper metabolism. It could explain our insomnia, lots of things maybe?
This is one of the few times that my self-experimentation has backfired on me. Overall I’ve improved a lot with my experimenting with supplements of various types: (cut PEM by more than half, noticeably increased energy, stopped detoxing at the drop of a hat, immune system functioning improved, and better sleep overall (once I stopped sabotaging myself!) The one thing I haven’t been able to do is stop crashing and extend my activity window, though I feel better and have more energy in between crashing. I believe that ME/CFS causes nutritional deficiencies and all I am doing is remedying these deficiencies with my supplements so I feel better, but unfortunately have not reached the root cause of ME/CFS.
And according to the same article, the following are associated with copper overload:
Sound familiar? (btw, I'm not crazy about Psychology Today as a source, but I think this is a good article)
Also see Why do you have Insomnia? (holisticpharmd.com)
I’ve been taking a copper supplement (2 mg) for several years on my former ME/CFS orthomolecular doctor’s recommendation. Unfortunately he died about 5 years ago. Interestingly, he originally practiced as a psychiatrist until he discovered that many of his patients had nutritional imbalances causing their symptoms, and that became his focus. He was the only doctor I had seen up until that time who even believed ME/CFS was real.
Anyways, several months ago I decided to double my dose of copper. I can’t remember why. It wasn’t a smart thing to do. (You don’t need to lecture me - I’ve already kicked myself enough!) Many things are forgiving (at least for me) if I increase or decrease them a little (vitamin C, magnesium, certain of the Bs) but copper is not one of them.
Some of you may have read my summer vacation post where I describe in great detail how my long-planned summer trip to see family in Texas was derailed by severe insomnia of a type I’d never experienced before (wide awake from 11:00 p.m. to 5.:00 a.m.) And it seemed the culprit was high dose liposomal vitamin C - my sleep improved after I cut that out and returned to my regular vitamin C dosing. (I’m now wondering what effect the high dose vitamin C had on my copper metabolism)
Only my sleep was still problematic, though not as bad, in the ensuing weeks. And it was getting worse, again, a few nights with only 2 hours sleep. And all my usual stuff wouldn’t touch it.
Well, I finally found the ultimate culprit (I think!) - excess copper. About 6 days ago copper came to mind, I read about it and bingo! I immediately stopped the supplement, and increased my zinc (now taking 22 mg zinc in the a.m. and 50 p.m. with dinner) and also increased molybdenum to 2 mg (taken at night) and I immediately started sleeping better. It’s been about 5 nights now and it feels too good to be true, but I’m finally sleeping again.
Copper helps produce adrenaline. So this explains why I was waking at 11:00 p.m. with a surge of adrenaline, and I could feel my BP going up - at 11:00 at night, after being asleep - WTH? Well, now I know. I’ve seen many here write about being awakened by adrenaline surges so urge you to look into copper.
(One other culprit with severe insomnia is high cortisol at night, which I’ve also experienced, but this was different, and also Seriphos (phosphorylated serine, not phosphatidyl serine) which is very effective at normalizing cortisol levels (when taken in the morning) didn’t help this time.)
The above articles talk about excess copper being stored in the body and how zinc can mobilize it, so that your symptoms can get worse initially when taking zinc. I’ve been on the lookout for this, but fortunately have only slept better since I cut out the copper and increased my zinc. And the increased zinc is temporary (I know - excess zinc can cause its own issues).
I’m getting a hair analysis done - my former doctor used to order one each year, and he knew how to interpret them. The company I’m working with now also provides an analysis - e.g., after the last one I had done 3 years ago, they told me that my magnesium/calcium ratio was way off, very heavily skewed in favor of calcium, and recommended I stop my calcium supplement and increase my magnesium. I did that, and immediately started sleeping better (sleep or, rather, insomnia, has been my bete noire for many years) I eventually added some calcium back in, but only half of what I had been taking, and was doing okay until recently. I learned it’s not just levels of various mineral that are important on hair analysis, but the ratio of various minerals to each other.
I also plan to get blood work done to measure ceruloplasmin, serum copper, zinc and will see what my (new) doctor recommends.
I’m now wondering if many or most people with ME/CFS might have a fundamental derangement in copper metabolism. It could explain our insomnia, lots of things maybe?
This is one of the few times that my self-experimentation has backfired on me. Overall I’ve improved a lot with my experimenting with supplements of various types: (cut PEM by more than half, noticeably increased energy, stopped detoxing at the drop of a hat, immune system functioning improved, and better sleep overall (once I stopped sabotaging myself!) The one thing I haven’t been able to do is stop crashing and extend my activity window, though I feel better and have more energy in between crashing. I believe that ME/CFS causes nutritional deficiencies and all I am doing is remedying these deficiencies with my supplements so I feel better, but unfortunately have not reached the root cause of ME/CFS.
