Everything You Ever Needed, Wanted, or Wished You Knew About Amino Acids, EAA’s and BCAA’s, Courtesy Of @PatJ

[andyguitar]

I would'nt worry about the lack of tryptophan in there @Jwarrior77 or the histidine-its not the same as histamine- The formula looks pretty standard as far as I can remember. Is the bovine collagen the capsule? If so and you want to avoid it just empty the cap into some warm water and knock it back. Tastes a bit weird.

 

[Jwarrior77]

I would'nt worry about the lack of tryptophan in there @Jwarrior77 or the histidine-its not the same as histamine- The formula looks pretty standard as far as I can remember. Is the bovine collagen the capsule? If so and you want to avoid it just empty the cap into some warm water and knock it back. Tastes a bit weird.

Thanks. Just trying to be as informed as possible. It doesn't come in caps it's in a powder you put in liquid.

 

[andyguitar]

Thanks. Just trying to be as informed as possible.

It's a very complex subject is amino acids, but to cut to the chase, taking a balanced formula like you are trying is probably without risk. I expect you will get some benefit from it. You might get some improvement in a couple of days. If you can afford it trying it for 3 months should give you an idea as to how useful they will be for you.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Is the bovine collagen the capsule?

I'm guessing that it's hydrolyzed cow collagen, usually derived from the skin, hooves, and/or connective tissue.

If you have any issues with glutamate, this might cause problems ...

Thanks. Just trying to be as informed as possible. It doesn't come in caps it's in a powder you put in liquid.

How much Vit C, and in what form (like ascorbic acid or some other variation), and do you know what their reason for adding Vit C to a bovine-derived collagen formula is?

 

[pamojja]

and do you know what their reason for adding Vit C to a bovine-derived collagen formula is?

Propably because vitamin C is an essential factor in our bodies synthesis of collagen.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Propably because vitamin C is an essential factor in our bodies synthesis of collagen.

Yes, but since they don't note the quantity or form of Vit C on the product label, I'm assuming that it's a relatively small amount, and that it would be more efficient to take Vit C (and magnesium, also helpful) separately, and in larger doses than would be palatable in the relatively tasteless bovine collagen, and almost definitely more productive .....

But then, I'm always a little suspicious of things that seem to be thrown in more to impress the buyer and close the sale than to provide any real value-added to the customer.

 

[Carnation4000]

I know this is an older thread but I just wanted to support what @YippeeKi YOW !! is saying about the dangers of things like whey protein and collagen supplements. I had a terrible reaction to some Collagen powder. I wasn't even taking the full recommended amount but I had terrible insomnia for a few days. This has been about three years ago and right before CF started to really hit me.

But, yep, probably the glutamic or aspartic acid. But, hey, collagen and whey protein are PERFECTLY safe - right? ha ha

 

[GreenMachineX]

I know this is an older thread but I just wanted to support what @YippeeKi YOW !! is saying about the dangers of things like whey protein and collagen supplements. I had a terrible reaction to some Collagen powder. I wasn't even taking the full recommended amount but I had terrible insomnia for a few days. This has been about three years ago and right before CF started to really hit me.

But, yep, probably the glutamic or aspartic acid. But, hey, collagen and whey protein are PERFECTLY safe - right? ha ha

Wow. Collagen gave me bad insomnia too, but I thought I was crazy. Guess not!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Wow. Collagen gave me bad insomnia too, but I thought I was crazy. Guess not!

Yup, me too, when things were really bad.

And for many of the same reasons that why protein does. I also used gelatin (not collagen, which is pretty much first-pass gelatin) for its various properties, including joint and muscle pain (this was before I discovered this site and I had no idea what was going on with me, except that Drs didnt believe it and I started not to, too), better sleep (proline and valine), etc etc etc....

The thing is, collagen is much like whey in terms of its amino acid structure.

The hides and bones of, usually, cows or pigs, are boiled, then dried down, then treated with a strong acid, all of which would sever the aminos one from the other. Then the dried compound, which is collagen, is ground into a fine powder and sifted to produce gelatin.

So once again, you're dealing with a substance with the strong probability of a high free glutamic acid/glutamate content. I know that it eventually made me want to peel off my skin and run shrieking from the room.

I cut it out right after the whey protein, as part of my 'calming the CNS and brain' project. What I didnt know at the time was how much glutamate exists in everything we eat, whether we're vegans or vegetarians or carnivores, and how hard it is to give the system a break from all that for long enough to reverse the bad effects and be able to slowly reincorporate everything from foods to supplements to herbs.

Life. Ya' gotta love it.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yup, me too, when things were really bad.

And for many of the same reasons that why protein does. I also used gelatin (not collagen, which is pretty much first-pass gelatin) for its various properties, including joint and muscle pain (this was before I discovered this site and I had no idea what was going on with me, except that Drs didnt believe it and I started not to, too), better sleep (proline and valine), etc etc etc....

The thing is, collagen is much like whey in terms of its amino acid structure.

The hides and bones of, usually, cows or pigs, are boiled, then dried down, then treated with a strong acid, all of which would sever the aminos one from the other. Then the dried compound, which is collagen, is ground into a fine powder and sifted to produce gelatin.

So once again, you're dealing with a substance with the strong probability of a high free glutamic acid/glutamate content. I know that it eventually made me want to peel off my skin and run shrieking from the room.

I cut it out right after the whey protein, as part of my 'calming the CNS and brain' project. What I didnt know at the time was how much glutamate exists in everything we eat, whether we're vegans or vegetarians or carnivores, and how hard it is to give the system a break from all that for long enough to reverse the bad effects and be able to slowly reincorporate everything from foods to supplements to herbs.

Life. Ya' gotta love it.

Well, I do feel better today with whey and eggs than with the pea protein and eggs...so far. I used whey for years without issue but the vegan protein is only the past year.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Well, I do feel better today with whey and eggs than with the pea protein and eggs...so far. I used whey for years without issue but the vegan protein is only the past year.

I used whey for, like, EVER, with no issue or difficulty, and then suddenly, KA-BLOOOEY !!! Everything seemed to grow long sharp teeth and turned on me, simultaneously. Well, more like sequentially. I can''t remember which one bit me on the @ss first, but one by one, the dominoes fell, and it took quite a while for me to figure out the rudiments of what was going on and start eliminating things. I think it was supplements first, esp anything that came in a gel cap.

I always stick with what works now. Pea protein and its likelihood of elevated glutamic acid may not be for you, and it might have taken a while for the damages to accumulate to an unignorable level.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I used whey for, like, EVER, with no issue or difficulty, and then suddenly, KA-BLOOOEY !!! Everything seemed to grow long sharp teeth and turned on me, simultaneously. Well, more like sequentially. I can''t remember which one bit me on the @ss first, but one by one, the dominoes fell, and it took quite a while for me to figure out the rudiments of what was going on and start eliminating things. I think it was supplements first, esp anything that came in a gel cap.

I always stick with what works now. Pea protein and its likelihood of elevated glutamic acid may not be for you, and it might have taken a while for the damages to accumulate to an unignorable level.

Thanks again. Do you do methylation or b12/folate or have comt mutations?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Thanks again. Do you do methylation or b12/folate or have comt mutations?

• No ...
• Yes, small amounts ...
• Not that I know of....

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

So I would not rely on an article geared toward normal healthy persons when deciding whether to take BCAAs or other aminos.

That wasn't the purpose of my re-post of @PatJ's helpful info.

It was to provide a wide range of information on pretty much everything amino acid in one easy place, allowing members to make their own decisions regarding what might or might or work for them and then movng on to deeper research before having to pour endless hours of googling into the basic info.

The info you posted was detailed and interesting, altho one of the research papers (PubMed) and the short abstract seemed to be based on a non-ME population, only touching on ME briefly. And the last link was to a sports performance site, so definitely not really applicable to the ME community.

But info is info, and it's up to each of us to narrow down what feels like it might help and do our own deep dive.

PS .... Damn. I thought I posted this, or something similar, to you over 2 years ago. Better late than never. Or at least that's what I have to believe .... I assume that I got distracted by the need to do a little lie-down (that was before I could add weakly brewed decaf back into my AM rotation, or at least at the very start of that experiment and def before I could expand that to weakly brewed real coffee, not decaf, so foggy foggy foggy)

EDIT ... for cranky typos ad added clarity ...

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

And I thought that I'd already posted this link, too, but nooooooo ....

SUPERFICIAL BUT HELPFUL ARTICLE ON BCAAs ACTIONS, ALONG WITH FOOD SOURCES ....
BCAAs Promote Muscle Repair, and These 10 Foods Make Great Sources … APR 15
https://news.yahoo.com/10-whole-foods-bcaas-help-130000387.html

 

[chrism]

Branched chain amino acids require biotin, so anyone whose lactic acidosis is caused by biotin deficiency may (or may not) have a limited response to BCAAs. As an athlete, I was using BCAAs daily when I got sick, so I don't think they help me at all. I prefer to take a variety of amino acids/protein sources.

Is there a source on BCAAs needing Biotin?