every time I have more dreams and nightmares

Messages
189
Likes
140
Since the disease started a few years ago at first I was not directly able to sleep, now with the passage of time that improves a lot and I am able to fall asleep earlier but over time I began to notice that at night I had more horrible dreams or strange dreams waking up badly, very little rested despite sleeping a lot I started having heart problems also increasing my frequency a lot, I left gluten and sugar for a few weeks and improved but then I came back and the dream continued until today that there are times that I feel that I have taken depression from this

did it happen to someone? How do I solve it? improve something with berberine and leaving the melatonin that had me with an alcohol hangover
 

Irat

Senior Member
Messages
265
Likes
651
Since the disease started a few years ago at first I was not directly able to sleep, now with the passage of time that improves a lot and I am able to fall asleep earlier but over time I began to notice that at night I had more horrible dreams or strange dreams waking up badly, very little rested despite sleeping a lot I started having heart problems also increasing my frequency a lot, I left gluten and sugar for a few weeks and improved but then I came back and the dream continued until today that there are times that I feel that I have taken depression from this

did it happen to someone? How do I solve it? improve something with berberine and leaving the melatonin that had me with an alcohol hangover
Yes horrible nightmares ,feeling of terror and even auditory hallucination.i have this after chemical exposures,

An explanation might be this :

Increased quinolinic acid results in higher glutamate and upregulation of NMDA receptors, possibly inducing altered learning, memory, neuroplasticity, hallucinations, and nightmares. Excitotoxicity and neuronal loss result in region- and neurotransmitter-specific NPs.

But I don t know,just know it's common
 

Judee

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
Likes
6,997
Location
Great Lakes
That's hard. I'm sorry you're going through that.

Are you on any other medications that could account for this? Or were you before and maybe they created an imbalance in neurotransmitters???
 

Azayliah

Senior Member
Messages
115
Likes
370
Location
USA
I often recall 2-3 dreams upon waking. For many years, there was always at least one of those that was awful. Aside from past traumas, agitators have included things like reflux, catathrenia, flu, night sweats, high stress, mental exhaustion, etc. Avoiding (or treating) agitators and meditating didn't always work but seemed to be the most useful, because the best thing to do was to find ways to calm my body, thoughts, and emotions.

I say "was" because I recently stumbled into a way to stop my nightmares. The dreams can still be intense, but instead of fleeing in a panic I might be flying and exhilarated or, at worst, intensely confused or annoyed. The problem is that I have no idea if what happened would work for anyone else:

I tried an intention-setting technique/meditation where you affirm that when you see your hands, you will know that you're dreaming. It wasn't successful because my hands vanished from my dreams. The first night they were invisible, the next they were stumps, and then it got worse because missing hands is nightmare fuel. :meh:

After a few weeks of (unsuccessfully) setting the intention using hands or imagery from past dreams, I tried using my nightmares, figuring that after 25 years that at least they weren't going to suddenly vanish. The intention was set to use running, seeing blood, suffocating, etc. But I guess some part of me really does not want to dream lucidly, because I've managed to reverse-psychology myself out of having nightmares... :confused:
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
4,065
Likes
7,368
Location
Alberta
Back when I was pretty sure I had excess quinolinic acid, I didn't notice any difference in dreams.

I have stronger dreams more frequently than pre-ME, but rarely have bad dreams. ME has affected my REM sleep, either letting me enter that state quickly or not leaving it properly when I wake in the night. I think that dreamstate and other sleep issues are complex with ME.
 

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
909
Likes
2,389
Location
small town midwest
I've been having dream issues lately. Scary to the point where I think I am awake and hallucinating rather than asleep and dreaming. It's a new symptom for me and I take it as a sign i am becoming more severe.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,169
Likes
2,727
Melatonin causes "vivid" dreams for me and I usually notice a connection between vivid dreams and likelihood of experiencing nightmares, so you could try without that or reducing the dosage. Another supplement I noticed did the same thing is B6 in active form, probably related to serotonin.
 
Messages
189
Likes
140
Yes horrible nightmares ,feeling of terror and even auditory hallucination.i have this after chemical exposures,

An explanation might be this :

Increased quinolinic acid results in higher glutamate and upregulation of NMDA receptors, possibly inducing altered learning, memory, neuroplasticity, hallucinations, and nightmares. Excitotoxicity and neuronal loss result in region- and neurotransmitter-specific NPs.

But I don t know,just know it's common
That's hard. I'm sorry you're going through that.

Are you on any other medications that could account for this? Or were you before and maybe they created an imbalance in neurotransmitters???
I often recall 2-3 dreams upon waking. For many years, there was always at least one of those that was awful. Aside from past traumas, agitators have included things like reflux, catathrenia, flu, night sweats, high stress, mental exhaustion, etc. Avoiding (or treating) agitators and meditating didn't always work but seemed to be the most useful, because the best thing to do was to find ways to calm my body, thoughts, and emotions.

I say "was" because I recently stumbled into a way to stop my nightmares. The dreams can still be intense, but instead of fleeing in a panic I might be flying and exhilarated or, at worst, intensely confused or annoyed. The problem is that I have no idea if what happened would work for anyone else:

I tried an intention-setting technique/meditation where you affirm that when you see your hands, you will know that you're dreaming. It wasn't successful because my hands vanished from my dreams. The first night they were invisible, the next they were stumps, and then it got worse because missing hands is nightmare fuel. :meh:

After a few weeks of (unsuccessfully) setting the intention using hands or imagery from past dreams, I tried using my nightmares, figuring that after 25 years that at least they weren't going to suddenly vanish. The intention was set to use running, seeing blood, suffocating, etc. But I guess some part of me really does not want to dream lucidly, because I've managed to reverse-psychology myself out of having nightmares... :confused:
Back when I was pretty sure I had excess quinolinic acid, I didn't notice any difference in dreams.

I have stronger dreams more frequently than pre-ME, but rarely have bad dreams. ME has affected my REM sleep, either letting me enter that state quickly or not leaving it properly when I wake in the night. I think that dreamstate and other sleep issues are complex with ME.
I've been having dream issues lately. Scary to the point where I think I am awake and hallucinating rather than asleep and dreaming. It's a new symptom for me and I take it as a sign i am becoming more severe.
Melatonin causes "vivid" dreams for me and I usually notice a connection between vivid dreams and likelihood of experiencing nightmares, so you could try without that or reducing the dosage. Another supplement I noticed did the same thing is B6 in active form, probably related to serotonin.

And in this case, what solution do you propose based on your experience? I already tried things and I don't know what else, lately I can't tolerate melatonin after taking it for years, a little already leaves me hungover all day. I don't know whether to go to the doctor and have a sleep test done
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
4,065
Likes
7,368
Location
Alberta
And in this case, what solution do you propose based on your experience?
From my experience, keep trying all sorts of different things, and hope that you find something that helps. ME affects us all differently, so it's very much a' find your own personal solutions' disease. Doctors generally can't help, because they don't know what ME is either, or what would work for a given individual. BTW, don't limit your experiments to just what is recommended for sleep or dreams for people without ME. What will work for you might be a spice, or an artificial additive, or acoustic tones or something else that no one else has suggested as a treatment for sleep/dreams. Finding your solution is like a lottery: tiny chance of winning, but if you don't buy any tickets, you're guaranteed to never win.
 

wabi-sabi

Senior Member
Messages
909
Likes
2,389
Location
small town midwest
And in this case, what solution do you propose based on your experience? I already tried things and I don't know what else, lately I can't tolerate melatonin after taking it for years, a little already leaves me hungover all day. I don't know whether to go to the doctor and have a sleep test done
Surprisingly, I am thinking of going to my doctor and ask her what she thinks. She may or may not have any good advice, but she does need to know that I am getting worse and it needs to be documented, so that when I have to fill out that disability application there'll be something in my chart. That's always a hard decision since I (like most of us) have endured so much medical gaslighting that it's hard to keep going back. But I keep hoping... and if nothing else it will help educate her about how ME/CFS really affects people.

My other thought is to do whatever you can not to crash. PEM makes everything worse!
 

Azayliah

Senior Member
Messages
115
Likes
370
Location
USA
And in this case, what solution do you propose based on your experience?
In your shoes, I wouldn't bother with melatonin. These are the things I would do:
  • Get a sleep study done. Sleep apnea can cause/worsen heart issues.
    • You'll probably hear about good sleep hygiene: regular routine, with something like a bath or reading a book to wind down an hour before bed. Could be useful if you haven't tried it.
    • You'll also likely hear about enforcing consistent sleep/wake times. I did not find this advice helpful because my sleep-wake time climbs about 15 minutes every day, and I get more sleep if I follow along with that. If you can identify what times your body wants you to sleep and wake, that might help you get more sleep.
  • Reduce stress. I found that when I have the kind of insomnia where my heart is involved/uncomfortable, I need to do what I can to avoid taxing my body. Examples of stresses:
    • Caffeine, large meals, foods that are tougher to digest (higher in fat or fiber).
    • Pain. This seems obvious, but I get pain I can't feel unless I actually press on the affected area.
    • Intensity, good or bad, for emotions, social interactions, reading news articles, etc.
    • Sensory input like bright light, loud noise, environmental clutter.
  • Meditation and/or breathing exercises. This is helpful both for reducing stress and heart rate.
  • Very cold water. I've found this useful for calming my heart.
  • Avoiding meds. The hangover feeling does not help matters and it seems that the pills always become ineffective. Sometimes NyQuil helps if I'm desperate, but I still have sleep-med hangover when I wake up.
 
Last edited:

Judee

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
Likes
6,997
Location
Great Lakes
Have you tried doing things to cleanse your liver?

Ornithine lowers ammonia and is supposed to help with sleep. Artichoke gets the liver/gallbladder moving a little better too.
 
Messages
189
Likes
140
From my experience, keep trying all sorts of different things, and hope that you find something that helps. ME affects us all differently, so it's very much a' find your own personal solutions' disease. Doctors generally can't help, because they don't know what ME is either, or what would work for a given individual. BTW, don't limit your experiments to just what is recommended for sleep or dreams for people without ME. What will work for you might be a spice, or an artificial additive, or acoustic tones or something else that no one else has suggested as a treatment for sleep/dreams. Finding your solution is like a lottery: tiny chance of winning, but if you don't buy any tickets, you're guaranteed to never win.
At the beginning of the disease, it was very hard for me to sleep but I did not have nightmares, over time I began to notice that I slept earlier and deeper but with more and more dreams so far which are horrible dreams, instead I sleep and I do not have nighttime awakenings but the nights are horrible.


Something strange is that I began to notice that alcohol began to notice me differently, making me very sleepy and almost not having an effect, that I think could be related to the liver or something but I am not a doctor and I do not know

Surprisingly, I am thinking of going to my doctor and ask her what she thinks. She may or may not have any good advice, but she does need to know that I am getting worse and it needs to be documented, so that when I have to fill out that disability application there'll be something in my chart. That's always a hard decision since I (like most of us) have endured so much medical gaslighting that it's hard to keep going back. But I keep hoping... and if nothing else it will help educate her about how ME/CFS really affects people.

My other thought is to do whatever you can not to crash. PEM makes everything worse!
In your shoes, I wouldn't bother with melatonin. These are the things I would do:
  • Get a sleep study done. Sleep apnea can cause/worsen heart issues.
    • You'll probably hear about good sleep hygiene: regular routine, with something like a bath or reading a book to wind down an hour before bed. Could be useful if you haven't tried it.
    • You'll also likely hear about enforcing consistent sleep/wake times. I did not find this advice helpful because my sleep-wake time climbs about 15 minutes every day, and I get more sleep if I follow along with that. If you can identify what times your body wants you to sleep and wake, that might help you get more sleep.
  • Reduce stress. I found that when I have the kind of insomnia where my heart is involved/uncomfortable, I need to do what I can to avoid taxing my body. Examples of stresses:
    • Caffeine, large meals, foods that are tougher to digest (higher in fat or fiber).
    • Pain. This seems obvious, but I get pain I can't feel unless I actually press on the affected area.
    • Intensity, good or bad, for emotions, social interactions, reading news articles, etc.
    • Sensory input like bright light, loud noise, environmental clutter.
  • Meditation and/or breathing exercises. This is helpful both for reducing stress and heart rate.
  • Very cold water. I've found this useful for calming my heart.
  • Avoiding meds. The hangover feeling does not help matters and it seems that the pills always become ineffective. Sometimes NyQuil helps if I'm desperate, but I still have sleep-med hangover when I wake up.
Before with melatonin I had a good sleep but lately I had to withdraw it, my dreams were worse and my awakening is much worse having a hangover worse than alcohol I had been drinking for years and had never noticed anything bad until now a while ago

Have you tried doing things to cleanse your liver?

Ornithine lowers ammonia and is supposed to help with sleep. Artichoke gets the liver/gallbladder moving a little better too.


I think I took milk thistle for a long time but I don't remember much either and I don't know how I took it.

I bought the artichoke, ornithine with arginine and sea thistle, how should I take all this? At the moment I am taking only artichoke which they also say is used for digestions
 

Judee

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
Likes
6,997
Location
Great Lakes
I think I took milk thistle for a long time but I don't remember much either and I don't know how I took it.

I bought the artichoke, ornithine with arginine and sea thistle, how should I take all this? At the moment I am taking only artichoke which they also say is used for digestions
I don't think I've ever heard of sea thistle before. I'll have to look that one up.

With the artichoke, I think you're fine to take a full capsule once a day near or just before a meal.

Are the other ones you list a supplement of all three mixed together (ornithine with arginine and sea thistle)? If so, then I would say to just open a capsule and take a small pinch of the contents to see how your body responds.

Arginine helps to dilate blood vessels so that should help your heart but the blood may also drain away from your head a bit like it did for me. Even though ornithine is also supposed to help with Arginine production, it didn't do that to me.

Whatever you decide to do remember ME ppl need to start low and go slow.

It may also take at least a few days to see if it helps with the bad dreams.

Edit: Just found a website from India that talks about nightmares possibly being indicative of some health issues. https://www.thehealthsite.com/disea...tions-that-can-cause-nightmares-k1217-543889/
 
Last edited: