Embargo broken: Bristol University Professor to discuss trial of quack cfs tx

[slysaint]

I was just reading the article by Esther Rantzen about her daughter who claims LP worked for her when she had ME.
But by the end of the article it turns out she had Celiacs. I see that this was discussed on PR at the time:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/esther-rantzens-daughter-had-celiac-all-along.8655/

but I don't remember this revelation and the number of times people have said to me ...."...ah yes, Esther Rantzens daughter had ME and recovered".

 

[A.B.]

I'm not remotely saying that we shouldn't slag off LP for being absurd - look at the quote about Parker stepping into peoples' bodies I posted - it's just that the way we do that still needs to be careful, or else we risk allowing Crawley to distract from the real problems with LP by talking about irrelevent mind-body stuff.

I would love if it Crawley started talking about magic circle, STOP gestures, and controlling physiology with one's thoughts.

 

[Esther12]

I would love if it Crawley started talking about magic circle, STOP gestures, and controlling physiology with one's thoughts.

Yes - it would have been much better to have included some examples of specific aspects of the Lightning Process that are problematic.

 

[trishrhymes]

but I don't remember this revelation and the number of times people have said to me ...."...ah yes, Esther Rantzens daughter had ME and recovered".

I'm sure I read somewhere Esther Rantzen's daughter being quoted saying what a relief it was getting the celiac diagnosis and treatment and actually feeling much better - and being able to stop pretending she felt better as taught in LP.

 

[HowToEscape?]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/909668816631758848

Because they figured they could get away with it

 

[BurnA]

They've got a very difficult job, responding to research that they haven't seen. I thought that had some good point, but this was really unhelpful:

It would be great if we could get the ME Association to be more careful when talking about things like this @charles shepherd .

Sorry but disagree. Describing that as really unhelpful is wide of the mark.

That's exactly the straight talking we need.

 

[Cheshire]

Each time I read something about Phil Parker, I'm just stunned.

I mean how on hearth this pile of shite based on insane theories could ever be funded by official bodies.

As a child, Vicci Hands was extremely scared by hearing voices that no one else could; the fact that what these spirit voices said came true just made things worse. She was fortunate enough to come across a number of positive influences and mentors who helped understand how to harness her abilities for healing. As a result of her own experiences, she has a very down to earth approach to the subject. This, combined with her background in education, makes her a very powerful and approachable teacher.

Essential to all healing work is an ability to prepare a space appropriately so that any energy polluting the room will not interfere with the work you are doing. When working with clients it is also important to protect yourself so that you don’t pick up their problems- or else you can end up helping the client enormously but leaving yourself feeling drained. This module focuses on how to contact your spirit/healing guides to help you create the right space for healing and how to ground yourself as preparation before healing can begin.

This is madness. A study on delutional people "healing" sick children. Paid by NIH.

 

[Esther12]

Sorry but disagree. Describing that as really unhelpful is wide of the mark.

That's exactly the straight talking we need.

This?

“There has been a growth in biomedical research globally into M.E. in the past decade. This over-simplistic and largely psychological model of ME/CFS causation that is being put forward to patients is totally out of step with emerging scientific evidence as to its cause.

What "over-simplistic and largely psychological model of ME/CFS causation that is being put forward to patients"? It's a long time since I read the Lightning Process materials, but from what I remember, it seemed a convulouted mess of almost everything Phil Parker had ever half read about, rather than being simplistic. It also kept trying to emphasise how very biomedical/neurological it was, but again, in a confused mess of a way. Also, there's just the vague reference to biological research, which in itself does nothing to show that LP should not be used, but will make it easier to let Crawley ramble on about how people are concerned about her work because they 'fear it indicates psychological causation, when really all of the leading researchers will tell you that our minds inevitably affect the way our brains and bodies work. We really need to get past this simplistic dualism which has caused so much needless rancour in this area. Thankfully many patients do understand that... etc, etc'.

 

[A.B.]

@Esther12 but it's true that it's a largely psychological model of ME/CFS causation. There are many references to physiology but that's just decoration meant to make it seem less psychological. It doesn't get any more psychological than claiming the illness can be cured in 3 days with willpower and thoughts.

 

[BurnA]

but will make it easier to let Crawley ramble on about how people are concerned about her work because they 'fear it indicates psychological causation, when really all of the leading researchers will tell you that our minds inevitably affect the way our brains and bodies work. We really need to get past this simplistic dualism which has caused so much needless rancour in this area.

Just because they spout nonsense doesnt mean we have to stop pointing out the truth.
I think that's what they'd like us to do.

In fact we absolutely need to make ourselves heard more and more and asking people like the MEA to be more careful is a bit surprising, I am glad to see someone stand up to this nonsense.

I wonder will AfME make a statement?

 

[Esther12]

@Esther12 but it's true that it's a largely psychological model of ME/CFS causation. There are many references to physiology but that's just decoration meant to make it seem less psychological. It doesn't get any more psychological than claiming the illness can be cured in 3 days with willpower and thoughts.

But there is a problem here with talking about what is 'psychological', particularly within the context of a model like the one used by LP - and it's very hard for a press release to be able to explan all of these issues effectively. I'm pretty confident that no-one will be able to find a quote from Phil Parker describing his model of ME as largely psychological, and in fact he repeatedly emphasises that it is not. There's a huge potential for misunderstanding here, particularly given the prejudices that have been promoted about ME patient activists within the UK media and that section of the MEA statement risks playing into this.

 

[A.B.]

I'm pretty confident that no-one will be able to find a quote from Phil Parker describing his model of ME as largely psychological, and in fact he repeatedly emphasises that it is not.

Right. LP is what he says it is, not what is actually is. Unless a patient describes their experience.

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

Here's what Phil Parker had to say about XMRV back in 2009:

Mr Parker’s scientific opinion on the Lightning Process and XMRV:

Slide presentation: xmrv cfs | 8:30 mins

17 slides, no audio

thephilparker | 27 October 2009

Phil Parker, designer of the Lightning Process discusses the latest research into the xmrv virus and cfs

@ Slides 13 and 14

How this relates to the Lightning Process

• If we assume that on average:

– 67% of the cases of CFS clients that are seen with the LP have the XMRV virus,

– And according to our findings 85% of these people recover their health in the 3 days of the LP programme

LP and XMRV

• The LP must be assisting these people to deal effectively with that infection in some way (we would hypothesise it is a resumption of good immune and neurological function)​

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

Mr Parker’s scientific opinion on whether medical professionals can assess whether you are “ready” to undertake the scientific Lightning Process:

From an FAQ: Can my doctor assess me for readiness?

If your doctor or health care specialist is trained as a Lightning Process Practitioner then of course they can assess you for readiness to take the programme. If they are not trained in the programme they will not have the requisite skills or knowledge base about this very specialised field to assess you.

A large part of the training for LP practitioners is to train them to appropriately assess potential trainees for their suitability for the process, as it is essential to ensure, as far as is possible, that only those who are ready to get benefits from the training program are enrolled in the training.

 

[Sean]

Phil Parker is already known to many as an inspirational teacher, therapist, healer and author. His personal healing journey began when, whilst working with his patients as an osteopath. He discovered that their bodies would suddenly tell him important bits of information about them and their past, which to his surprise turned out to be factually correct! He further developed this ability to step into other people’s bodies over the years to assist them in their healing with amazing results. After working as a healer for 20 years, Phil Parker has developed a powerful and magical program to help you unlock your natural healing abilities. If you feel drawn to these courses then you are probably ready to join.

Sounds like a fully qualified charlatan, at the peak of his career.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

…and if the Lightning Process didn't fix CFS and ME, there’s plenty more it was being claimed to fix, according to the sites of some Lightning Process practitioners back in 2010:

What does it work for?

People using the Lightning Process® have also recovered from, or experienced significant improvement with the following conditions: –

Fibromyalgia
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Post Viral Fatigue
Asthma
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Hayfever
Depression
Dyspraxia
Bipolar Disorder
Ocd
Anxiety And Panic Attacks
Insomnia
Cerebral Palsy
Low Self Esteem
Parkinsons Tremors
Motor Neurone Disease
Hyper And Hypo Thyroidism
Chronic Aches And Pains
Ibs
Lyme Disease
Anger Issues
Food Intolerances
Coeliac Disease
Ptsd
Candida
Allergies
Type 2 Diabetes
Interstitial Cystitis
Migraines
Noise And Light Sensitivity
And Many More

Using the Lightning Process® has proven effective for clearing ALL the debilitating physical and mind based symptoms of ME, chronic fatigue syndrome, and post viral syndrome.

Some of the symptoms that people have cleared are listed here…

Addictions, adrenal problems, allergies and intolerances, anxiety, balance problems, bloating, blurry vision, brain fog, candida, chemical sensitivity, compulsive behaviours, concentration problems, confusion, constipation, depression, diarrhoea, dizziness, electrical pulsing sensations, excessive sleeping, exhaustion, fatigue, fear, feeling detached or disconnected, fever and chills, flu-like symptoms, frequent coughs and colds, fybromyalgia, hallucinations, head pain or pressure, heartburn, indigestion, insomnia and other sleep disturbances, irritability, irritable bowel syndrome, itching and rashes, itchy eyes, joint pain, light sensitivity, loss of vision, malaise, memory loss, migraines, muscle pain, nausea, noise sensitivity, oedema, panic attacks, painful and/or swollen glands, pins and needles, restless leg syndrome, runny nose, sensitivity to electrical fields/computers/mobiles etc, shaking, shooting pains, skin sensitivity, stomach pain, sun burn sensation, swelling, temperature control problems, thrush, thyroid problems, unrefreshing sleep, vertigo and similar sensations, vomiting, water retention, watering eyes, weakness…"

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

Lighting Process practitioner, Alastair Gibson, had been part of the research team collaborating in the NHS Bath/University of Bristol pilot study into the application of Lightning Process in children.

In June 2010, Mr Gibson was subject to an ASA ruling in relation to claims made in an advertisement about the efficacy of the Lightning Process for CFS and ME.

Relief from:

Addictions
Anger management
Children’s Anxieties
Sadness
Grief and Loss
Negative Memories
Procrastination
Stomach Problems
Weight Issues Allergies
Stress
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Fears and Phobias inc:
Public Speaking
Spiders
Heights
Flying

Relationship Issues

Anxiety and Panic
Compulsions and Obsessions
Guilt
Headaches
Limiting Beliefs
Pain Management
Stuckness

And many more…..

Enhancement of:

Abundance
Emotional Control
Relationships
Self Image
Creativity & Productivity Concentration
Healing
Relaxation
Work and School Performance
And many more…..

Confidence
Life Direction
Self-Esteem
Sports Performance

------------------------

What is "Abundance"?

 

[Esther12]

Right. LP is what he says it is, not what is actually is. Unless a patient describes their experience.

If a patient group says 'Phil Parker's model of ME/CFS is primarily physchological' without having quotes from Phil Parker to support this it makes it easy for Phil Parker to respond 'Some angry critics get confused about this, and try to claim I believe things that I do not. Despite their attacks you will not find any quotes where I have claimed the ME is 'primarily psychological', and really my model is that...'.

It would be possible for the MEA to put together a detailed examination of LP, including lots of quotes from Parker, and then explain why they think that this adds up to a model which could be fairly classed as being 'primarily psychological', but that's not what was done.

As we see above, Phil Parker thinks that the LP model would fit fine with treating a retrovirus causing ME.

 

[Esther12]

In terms of just accuracy, I think that LP's model of ME is probably more fairly classed as 'super-natural' than primarily psychological!

 

[user9876]

A large part of the training for LP practitioners is to train them to appropriately assess potential trainees for their suitability for the process, as it is essential to ensure, as far as is possible, that only those who are ready to get benefits from the training program are enrolled in the training.

How many days training does it take to learn such specialist knowledge?