• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

EBV and the liver

Violeta

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,949
wastwater said:
EBV effects the liver and maybe it leaves you unable to clear ammonia as well and you use the brain and or muscle to do so
Minimal chronic hepatic encephalopathy due to reduced liver enzyme activity
Click to expand...
This post is from over a year ago, do you have any new insights since then?
 
V

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
1,877
wastwater said:
I’m wondering if there maybe a subtle hidden later viral onset inherited urea cycle disorder leading to high ammonia
I do have a rare genetic disorder but have found it hard to get Ammonia testing
Click to expand...

Agree, hard to get it tested. I was interested as well but only some labs will do it, and wasn't the lab i normally went to. I think either needs special tube or special handling (cold?)- can't remember. I also figured wsn't worth my effort since they seem to never grasp the concept of "high for me" . So given my weight and protein consumption, i think my blood amomnia level would be way to high BUT in terms of test ranges. it undoubtedly would be "withink normal limits" and wouldn't be given another thought.
When I do urinary amino acid testing, they report ammonia levels. Mine are often in the 90 percent, even though tform amino acides, nearly all of mine are around the 2.5 percent mark, sometimes lower (exept for some awful ones but i digress).
At first i thought it was degraded sample since i sent it in over the summer but have since learned, nope, it's me, not the sample quality.
 
H

Husband of

Senior Member
Messages
318
Learner1 said:
L-citrulline and/or l-ornithine aspartate can help high ammonia.
Click to expand...
After watching Rob phair's video about the Itaconate shunt hypothesis, which leads to the use of glutamine and glutamate for energy production in the brain, a byproduct of which is ammonia, I googled about how to remove ammonia from the brain and found an article talking about l-ornithine l-aspartate; then thought I'd search within these forums to see if anyone has used this (for whatever reason) and what results they'd had. And I came across your post. So I wonder; have you taken this as a supplement, and if so, what results did you have?
 
Learner1

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Husband of said:
After watching Rob phair's video about the Itaconate shunt hypothesis, which leads to the use of glutamine and glutamate for energy production in the brain, a byproduct of which is ammonia, I googled about how to remove ammonia from the brain and found an article talking about l-ornithine l-aspartate; then thought I'd search within these forums to see if anyone has used this (for whatever reason) and what results they'd had. And I came across your post. So I wonder; have you taken this as a supplement, and if so, what results did you have?
Click to expand...
Yes, I've taken l-ornithine aspartate (and citrulline works too). It depleted ammonia and reduced brain fog.
 
V

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
1,877
@Learner1 if you take other AAs at the sane time as those two would it wash out the effect of ammonia reduction from those two?

@wastwater Does lowered conplement lead to higher complement?

Anyone know if theres a positive correlation between urine and blood ammonia??
 
Judee

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,500
Location
Great Lakes
Husband of said:
I googled about how to remove ammonia from the brain and found an article talking about l-ornithine l-aspartate; then thought I'd search within these forums to see if anyone has used this (for whatever reason) and what results they'd had. And I came across your post. So I wonder; have you taken this as a supplement, and if so, what results did you have?
Click to expand...

So not the same as the LOLA supplement but I have taken this: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swanson-condition-specific-formulas-ghr-essentials-120-caps

For years, I'd use it just once in a while and noticed that sometimes when I took it right before bed, I'd wake very slight refreshed for about 20 minutes before my day would crash back to normal.

I always felt it must be helping to lower ammonia. Plus, I've also used it as an antidote two times when I trialed amino acid supplements. Within a very short time after taking the aminos, my neck and shoulder muscles were burning like they were being flooded with liquid fire (ammonia?). The pain moved from there down my spine and eventually even into my legs. It was bad and it happened both times I trialed amino supplements.

Once I figured out that it could be ammonia I took that supplement. It reduced the symptoms a lot and again in just a short time...though not completely.

I've also purchased a different brand from Piping Rock that doesn't have the mucuna or the Alpha-GPC. It doesn't seem to work as well.

Anyway, now I take it daily because once I got my Garmin watch, I noticed this product and later oregano oil (unrelated) lowers my heart rate. It's nice since I feel I also have OI issues. (Again, the Piping Rock brand doesn't seem to do this as much.)

Two more things: I have taken just L-ornithine (and L-Citrulline) by themselves but don't seem to get the same benefit as this product and Yucca is another supplement that is supposed to reduce ammonia but I haven't tried it.

:)
 
H

Husband of

Senior Member
Messages
318
Judee said:
So not the same as the LOLA supplement but I have taken this: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/p/swanson-condition-specific-formulas-ghr-essentials-120-caps

For years, I'd use it just once in a while and noticed that sometimes when I took it right before bed, I'd wake very slight refreshed for about 20 minutes before my day would crash back to normal.

I always felt it must be helping to lower ammonia. Plus, I've also used it as an antidote two times when I trialed amino acid supplements. Within a very short time after taking the aminos, my neck and shoulder muscles were burning like they were being flooded with liquid fire (ammonia?). The pain moved from there down my spine and eventually even into my legs. It was bad and it happened both times I trialed amino supplements.

Once I figured out that it could be ammonia I took that supplement. It reduced the symptoms a lot and again in just a short time...though not completely.

I've also purchased a different brand from Piping Rock that doesn't have the mucuna or the Alpha-GPC. It doesn't seem to work as well.

Anyway, now I take it daily because once I got my Garmin watch, I noticed this product and later oregano oil (unrelated) lowers my heart rate. It's nice since I feel I also have OI issues. (Again, the Piping Rock brand doesn't seem to do this as much.)

Two more things: I have taken just L-ornithine (and L-Citrulline) by themselves but don't seem to get the same benefit as this product and Yucca is another supplement that is supposed to reduce ammonia but I haven't tried it.

:)
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was thinking of doing - supplementing amino acids and supplementing to remove ammonia. Are you still supplementing amino acids?
 
Judee

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,500
Location
Great Lakes
Husband of said:
Are you still supplementing amino acids?
Click to expand...

The ones in the Swanson formula meant to remove ammonia yes but not the regular amino acid supplements like BCAAs or ones that are multi-aminos. Those latter kind make me feel very toxic, uncomfortably so.

Oddly enough I can eat meat without problems though and actually crave it sometimes, I think because of the protein.
 
H

Husband of

Senior Member
Messages
318
Judee said:
The ones in the Swanson formula meant to remove ammonia yes but not the regular amino acid supplements like BCAAs or ones that are multi-aminos. Those latter kind make me feel very toxic, uncomfortably so.

Oddly enough I can eat meat without problems though and actually crave it sometimes, I think because of the protein.
Click to expand...
Hmm, that's a shame. The reason I started looking into this was the Itaconate shunt theory saying that the Itaconate shunt can make you use amino acids instead of glucose and fat for energy, but that in the brain ammonia is a byproduct of this process (using glutamate and gaba For energy think) Although apparently 43 per cent as efficient as using glucose, getting to 43 per cent of a normal person sounded enticing (and actually Ron Davis reckons possibly disease severity can be explained by the number of cells in which the shunt is occurring- implying that it's not all cells, so you could get higher than 43 per cent of a normal person), but only if I could find a way to deal with the ammonia.
 
Judee

Judee

Psalm 46:1-3
Messages
4,500
Location
Great Lakes
Husband of said:
Hmm, that's a shame. The reason I started looking into this was the Itaconate shunt theory
Click to expand...

Oh, but don't go completely by my experience. Some here like @Mary have gotten good response from using aminos like the BCAAs, if I recall correctly.

I think there might even be a thread specifically about BCAAs somewhere on PR.
 
Last edited:
Mary

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,385
Location
Southern California
Judee said:
Oh, but don't go completely by my experience. Some here like @Mary have gotten good response from using aminos like the BCAAs, if I recall correctly.

I think there might even be a thread specifically about BCAAs somewhere on PR.
Click to expand...
@Husband of - BCAAs have helped a lot of people here with energy and stamina. One very important thing they've done for me is to cut my PEM recovery time in half - it used to take me 2- 3 days to recover from overdoing things and with the BCAAs it's down to 1 day. I think they also help my energy and stamina a bit. I've been taking them since 2014. Once or twice I've tried cutting them out or cutting my dose, but the results are not good - I start to backslide very quickly so I won't be without them. Here's a thread about BCAAs: BCAAS reducing PEM

Also, just FYI, I've taken ornithine in the past and at times it has helped with sleep. I don't know the mechanism of why or how it helped - it might have been it reduced ammonia, I just don't know. But eventually its sleep benefits would dissipate. I don't recall any other effects from l-ornithine.

I've also taken l-citrulline, trying to lower my BP. It is supposed to boost nitric oxide, causing arteries to relax and improve blood flow, and thus lower BP. It was rather amazing - the citrulline gave me wonderful energy for an entire day! And also raised my BP quite high! The opposite of what it was supposed to do. The energy was great but my BP went way too high, so had to stop it. But it is supposed to help with energy and reduce BP, so it might help you. Just keep an eye on your BP -
 
wastwater

wastwater

Senior Member
Messages
1,271
Location
uk
The way I understood it is that having low c3 leads to high c5 because c3 cleaves c5

low c3 leaves you under reactive to pyogenic bacteria In childhood that’s grown out of
High c5 over reactive to viruses
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.