Eating causing severe anxiety/depresion nose & ear pressure

[douglasmich]

Hello

I have suffered from gut issues for a long time but i have never had these symptoms before. I used to eat lots of fruit, meat and veg no problems.

In september i took methylfoalte and methylb12 and had INTENSE potassium wasting. It took 7 days of eating 5 carrots + 150g spinach + potassium powder to get it undercontrol AFTER stopping the vitamins.

Once it was under control i tried again just 200mcg folate 500mcg b12 and i had incredible euphoria for 2 days !! then i woke up crashed. I was never the same since and could no longer drink my vegetable juices without getting anxiety/nose pressure when i could drink them literally one week ago.


Now
I will wake up feeling calm and collected. Then i will eat some bacon, carrot and spinach. Within 30mins im shaking with anxiety and have suicidal thoughts.

The worst foods that do it are
-carrots
-bananas
-berries

Just fruit and veg in general.

I get a strong pressure in the bridge of my nose and my ears feel funny. I just want to lie down and crawl up in a ball its horrible.

So yesterday i decided to eat nothing for 24 hours. I felt back to normal, zero anxiety or depression. Then i ate and was crippled again.

Does anyone know what can cause this? and why it only started from methylation supps?

Thanks

 

[ahmo]

I have no answers. maybe one of these folks who know a lot about vits, minerals, etc. does: @nandixon @Violeta @Gondwanaland @picante

 

[douglasmich]

Thanks for the tags.

No doubt its physiological though. Im just interested in what on earth could cause that? Its night and day the difference if i dont eat. Ive lost my appetite because i know if i eat all hells gonna break loose lol.............

When i initially took the methylfolate i was drinking so much fruit and vegie juice to keep up with the potasium demand. 6+carrots a day with ZERO issues. I felt great actaully.

Then once potassium was under control i took low doses of the folate and b12, got the euphoria then the crash. After that crash was when i started feeling bad from the juices and foods and it just got worse and worse each week untill i realized it was food doing it. I waited 2 months off the methylation things and i have not got any better maybe even worse. Ive been to the ER and electrolytes are fine.

So my question is... why cant i eat fruit and veg anymore without getting severe mental problems?

My original guess was "paradoxial folate deficiency"" that i induced due to drinking huge amounts of vegie juice whilst i started methylation ( i have MTHFS gene). And maybe ive blocked the crap out of my methylfolate which is why i react to fruit and veg due to the follinic acid in them.

But im not sure if a cup of berries can do that, or just one carrot.

About a month ago i tried taking 1500b12 and 1200mfolate and i didnt really feel anything besides abit of inflammation. Quite weird when tiny amounts of these produced a profound potassium loss. This is why i think maybe its a donut hole problem like FREDD talkes about

Appreciate any tips

I will also mention that tumeric and artifical sweeteners do the same thing. Also whats interesting is herbs like goldenseal give me severe dementia like brainfog for days, when the past they did nothing to me.

Im wondering if there is a block in the methylation cycle causing this sensitivity or if i have mobilized metals or something.

 

[douglasmich]

One last thing. When i thought it was a methyltrap i added b12. This caused potassium loss for a few days then nothing besides making me spacey. Since it caused some potassium loss it seemd like there was a block in the cycle then taking b12 unblocked it for a day or so then it got stuck again................

 

[Gondwanaland]

My guess is you got yourself a thiamine deficiency from too much folate and magnesium deficiency from too much potassium.

Edit-- also methylation strongly impacts adrenals and thyroid, and if your thyroid has been impacted, your stomach will lower in acidity impairing digestion.

 

[picante]

My guess is you got yourself a thiamine deficiency from too much folate and magnesium deficiency from too much potassium.

Yes! What Izzy said. Taking a lot of potassium depletes both thiamine and magnesium. Also zinc.

The cognitive symptoms remind me strongly of mine when I overdid Me/AdB12 and Mefolate. I managed to wind up with deficiencies of B1, B2 and B3 (thiamine, riboflavin and niacin). A large crowd of people here have done the same thing. But the symptoms can differ from one person to the next.

My hypothesis:
If you aren't tolerating folate or B12, you can take niacin or niacinamide until you clear out the excess methyl groups. Once you hit that threshhold, you'll have symptoms of B12 deficiency return (and you should be able to eat again).

However, the gut/cognitive problems may also be from a severe B1 deficiency. I take Benfotiamine (which can cross the blood-brain barrier) and regular thiamine. That's because my deficiency is long-standing.

Are you hypothyroid? That led me straight to gut dysbiosis and high acetaldehyde levels. Acetaldehyde depletes thiamine quickly and extremely.

 

[picante]

Favorite thiamine quotes:

It is obvious that if potassium supplements are given, it is very important that the vitamin B-1 intake must be adequate at the same time, and one third of heart disease patients are deficient in thiamin.”

“The reverse is also the case. Vitamin B-1 supplements should be dangerous for people with low potassium. Since cell potassium is always low in rheumatoid arthritis [30], such people should not take vitamin B-1 without potassium.”

http://charles_w.tripod.com/kandthiamin.html

Interestingly, when given a blood test, many of the people in these studies had normal blood concentrations of thiamine, yet they experienced significant symptom improvement when taking high doses of thiamine. The study authors speculate that this “may indicate a dysfunction of intracellular thiamine transport or structural enzymatic abnormalities.”

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ent-story-focus-on-thiamine-deficiency.24059/

When all of these concurrent demands reach a critical threshold and the normal background chi pressure that keeps the body's chi spring wound up creates a sudden shift of thiamine out of the bloodstream, then normal chi pressure becomes excessive chi stress and body processes start to fail. The symptom first experienced might be a sudden headache, hot flash, night sweat, panic attack, fit of rage, dizzy spell, nausea, spike in blood pressure, or enervating fatigue that continues to worsen until the condition becomes chronic and internal organs begin to fail. When there is an overall insufficiency of thiamine in the system, so that both blood stream and chi field requirements cannot be adequately met, the body has slipped into a state of sub-clinical beri-beri, the thiamine deficiency disease.

Interestingly, I've been having some great results lately with sulbutiamine (a B1 derivative that can cross the blood-brain barrier, supposedly much more efficiently than regular thiamine). It took a week or so, but really gave me a mental lift, cognitively as well as emotionally. Doubly so when I combined with acetyl-l-carnitine at the end of week 2. I'd never had any benefit from ALC, but combined with the sulbutiamine gave me quite a good effect.

 

[picante]

One more quote:

...and I wonder in hindsight if he [Rich Van K] missed or overlooked some of the other crucial nutrients that folate or b12 might displace?

Just as one example, thiamine -- which was shown in that other study to use some of the same receptors as folate, but was blocked if folate was high. Thiamine is critical for proper krebs cycle function, whereas folate isn't. So could excessive folate worsen krebs cycle function? Also thiamine deficiency can lead to excess lactate, which Lotus mentioned in a different study above...

What I find interesting is that Lynch found these patterns repeatedly in the many patients he's seen. And the symptoms, when taken together, seemed somewhat unique -- anxiety is a pretty common symptom of course, but combined w/irritability and outright anger, and with wanting to just hide in their rooms, combined with worsening pain, so much so that one feels they're heading to a bedridden status...those seem pretty specific, and at least to me, very relatable. And he says all resolved or diminished in his practice when niacin was given, and methylation slowed down.

Methinks the B vits are more complex than we previously thought.

 

[douglasmich]

Really appreciate the comments!

I tried meb12 this morning alone and i felt better but started getting my usual potassium loss symptoms. I ate a banana and fekt better after it!

I'm taking natures made b complex.

I had the best bowel movement ive had in months this morning too aftrr the b12. It seems ut could be methyltrap alternating with paradox folate insufficiency not sure.

Im staying on b12 250mcg few x a day with b complex.

I have MTRR MTR +/+ which could have caused this situation since when i started i only really took folate. I also have MTHFS +/- which could cause vegie follonic acid issues.

 

[douglasmich]

Scratch that im back to bad. Tingling in legs/numbness and anxiety.

Well now i know mb12 causes low potassium itself so it must be lifting a block of some sort. Then something else goes wrong

 

[5150]

Hello

I have suffered from gut issues for a long time but i have never had these symptoms before. I used to eat lots of fruit, meat and veg no problems.

In september i took methylfoalte and methylb12 and had INTENSE potassium wasting. It took 7 days of eating 5 carrots + 150g spinach + potassium powder to get it undercontrol AFTER stopping the vitamins.

Once it was under control i tried again just 200mcg folate 500mcg b12 and i had incredible euphoria for 2 days !! then i woke up crashed. I was never the same since and could no longer drink my vegetable juices without getting anxiety/nose pressure when i could drink them literally one week ago.


Now
I will wake up feeling calm and collected. Then i will eat some bacon, carrot and spinach. Within 30mins im shaking with anxiety and have suicidal thoughts.

The worst foods that do it are
-carrots
-bananas
-berries

Just fruit and veg in general.

I get a strong pressure in the bridge of my nose and my ears feel funny. I just want to lie down and crawl up in a ball its horrible.

So yesterday i decided to eat nothing for 24 hours. I felt back to normal, zero anxiety or depression. Then i ate and was crippled again.

Does anyone know what can cause this? and why it only started from methylation supps?

Thanks

I have no answers. maybe one of these folks who know a lot about vits, minerals, etc. does: @nandixon @Violeta @Gondwanaland @picante

"now I will wake up feeling calm and collected.Then I will eat some bacon,carrot and spinach. Within 30 min,I'm shaking with anxiety and have suicidal thoughts." "the worst foods are carrots bananas berries..."

1. Bacon is a processed food which delivers poisons... no surprise there.
2.Carrot Banana Berries: among the highest of fruits/vegs in Sugar. Sugar can be deadly trouble for pwME.

Sounds like some big food intolerances. Processed foods and Sugar. maybe simply start with that?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Histamine intolerance. Keep the carrots. If you are reacting to them is because your serotonin got too low. Magnesium should be helpful.

 

[Timaca]

Yes, you could quite possibly have a histamine intolerance. I do. Bacon and spinach are high in histamine, berries are high in benzoates, which can release histamine in some people (I'm one of those people)....either that or I'm also sensitive to benzoates.

I have info about histamine intolerance on the Resources page of my blog.

 

[Mels]

Hi @Gondwanaland , just wondering why you suggest that reacting to carrots could be due to low serotonin? What is the link between the two, please?

I have been reacting to many foods this week, but especially carrots. I was thinking oxalate issues, and wonder if that could be the case for @douglasmich, too? I think that as we try to put an imbalance right we often create another one - or several!

 

[Irwin]

My guess is you got yourself a thiamine deficiency from too much folate and magnesium deficiency from too much potassium.

Magnesium deficiency from too much potassium? I tried to google it, but I didn't find anything connecting this. I just found a website saying in some people potassium levels were elevated just by increasing magnesium dosage.

 

[Irwin]

I think we need a sticky topic showing all induced deficiencies and its symptoms. I just learned potassium can cause Mg deficiency today in this topic.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Hi @Gondwanaland , just wondering why you suggest that reacting to carrots could be due to low serotonin? What is the link between the two, please?

I have read on many places that carrots lower endotoxins like histamines, estrogen and serotonin (e.g. The Low Histamine Chef, Ray Peat etc)

reacting to many foods this week, but especially carrots. I was thinking oxalate issues,

Carrots have oxalates, but they are not very high on them, so it shouldn't stand out in your diet as a main cause for oxalate sensitivity, but everything is possible...

In my experience oxalate sensitivity is related with anemia, esp. B complex deficiency

Magnesium deficiency from too much potassium?

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/normal-potassium-level.html

I just found a website saying in some people potassium levels were elevated just by increasing magnesium dosage.

Mg increases potassium retention inside the cells threfore reducing your need for supplementing potassium

I think we need a sticky topic showing all induced deficiencies and its symptoms. I just learned potassium can cause Mg deficiency today in this topic.

You can study the link in signature "Balancing Nutrients"

 

[douglasmich]

I have not eaten in 36hrs. Feel so much better anxiety wise. I broke the fast with some sultanas and got bad anxiety.

 

[Irwin]

I have read on many places that carrots lower endotoxins like histamines, estrogen and serotonin (e.g. The Low Histamine Chef, Ray Peat etc)

Carrots have oxalates, but they are not very high on them, so it shouldn't stand out in your diet as a main cause for oxalate sensitivity, but everything is possible...

In my experience oxalate sensitivity is related with anemia, esp. B complex deficiency

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/normal-potassium-level.html

Mg increases potassium retention inside the cells threfore reducing your need for supplementing potassium

You can study the link in signature "Balancing Nutrients"

Thanks, I'll try to read, but I ask you please answer a question here
Usually i'm a calm guy, don't have panick attacks. After a day or another using 400mcg mfolate and b12 (a liquid mix of hydro and mb12), I started to have a lot of brain fog and starting symptoms of panick attack. I stopped this, but the symptoms didn't stop. Then I started to use again this b12, and my symptoms started to relieve a lot, specially the brain fog. However, the initial symptoms of panick continue. Yesterday I saw you saying maybe b1 is depleted. I used half of a tablet of my Nature's Made B complex (without b12 and folate) and felt better. This really improved this symptoms. Buuut i went to sleep and I waked up right now, panicking a lot, and very paranoic. I'm afraid to develop esquizo or psychosis, weeeird but this fear is real. I don't know what vitamin is depleted right now, my muscles are fine, I don't feel cramps and I don't think I lack potassium. I don't know if I'm lacking folate also. Maybe b12 again!

I'm MTRR +/+ rs1801394 (known as A66G)
MTRR +/- rs1802059

No Mthfr mutations,
VDR +/+ in rs731236 and rs1544410
BHMT08 +/+ rs651852
GSTP1 +/+ rs1695

More heterozygs, 2 in comt and 2 in cbs, but don't know if this is so relevant right now
Don't know if hydrob12 just screw everything because I'm mtrr, but I think not

sorry for posting this right here, but i'm not in a good moment

 

[Gondwanaland]

After a day or another using 400mcg mfolate

I would stop folate and potassium and keep taking what is helping, in small doses
taking magnesium up to 200mg 3x daily away from meals to not disturb stomach acid should help