Dr. Thomas Levy -- How COVID Helped Me Regain Good Health

[Judee]

Different virus but still...

Frustrating and really sad to watch though when you realize how dysfunctional our medical systems are.

 

[almost]

Additionally, before doing IV C it is essential to determine . . . iron status or mitochondrial damage and/or death may result.

@Learner1 , would you expand on this please? Are you talking about excess iron or deficient iron, or ?? Also, how does ferritin factor in? Do things change when you do high dose C orally vs, IV? I would appreciate your input since you seem to know about this and I am considering the high does C but do have issues with ferritin. Thank you.

 

[almost]

As caring for patients with chronic infections and chronic diseases is highly individualized, there can be no fixed recommendations. Availability, convenience, and expense are important dictating factors in how often someone can receive vitamin C infusions. When this is an early part of a long-term treatment protocol, the recommendations noted for acute infections can be employed, and after a couple weeks, the oral vitamin C/hydrocortisone approach can be adopted. When vitamin C infusions are given intermittently but indefinitely, as one or more times monthly for a cancer patient, the hydrocortisone can always be added.Many patients can benefit from simply taking 5 mg of hydrocortisone orally every time they take their oral form of vitamin C, up to three times daily (15 mg of hydrocortisone total per day). However, all of these possibilities can only be realized with the guidance of a physician or other health care professional who is closely following the clinical response and serial blood testing of a given patient, and who is able to prescribe the oral hydrocortisone tablets. The potential variations in the application of vitamin C with hydrocortisone are numerous.

@Wayne , noting that treatment is individualized, do you have any information on his/your guidance on how long VitC/hydrocortizone therapy should be given? These levels seem to be excessive for long-term use, but I'm thinking one or two weeks to attempt to recharge cellular levels.

 

[almost]

I'm finding some disagreement on how Vitamin C interacts with iron. What seems to be agreed is that it will increase iron absorption, although then the heme - non heme debate begins. What seems to me to be going on is a high degree of individual variability, so that tells me we don't understand the relationships very well. Zinc status, for example, can influence iron levels also.

This paper had some interesting results. Some patients had large decreases in serum ferritin, some increases after large doses of Vitamin C over a period of two weeks +. The variability is hidden in the report that the mean was largely unchanged. I don't think we can know how it affects us unless we try it and measure levels before and after, and monitor our own reactions.

This paragraph was particularly interesting:

A final possibility is that the megadoses of vitamin C induced some redistribution of body iron stores that masked an actual increase in total body iron. In patients with iron overload and secondary ascorbic acid deficiency, parenteral ascorbic acid promotes iron release from the reticuloendothelial cell,26,27 which is the immediate precursor compartment for circulating ferritin. There was a tendency for serum ferritin levels to fall in iron-replete subjects during the early part of the study (Fig 3), which is consistent with some redistribution from reticuloendothelial stores. However, our subjects were neither iron loaded nor ascorbic acid depleted. Furthermore, we have been unable to demonstrate any acute effects on serum iron or serum ferritin levels when normal subjects are given 500 mg ascorbic acid three times daily for 14 days (Fig 3). A final point is that some initial redistribution of body iron stores would not obscure a long-term effect on serum ferritin levels.

My thanks to @Learner1 , for bringing up this subject. I am going to give VitC/hydrocortisone a trial.

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1 , would you expand on this please? Are you talking about excess iron or deficient iron, or ?? Also, how does ferritin factor in? Do things change when you do high dose C orally vs, IV? I would appreciate your input since you seem to know about this and I am considering the high does C but do have issues with ferritin. Thank you.

I'm talking about excess iron. Ferritin is the typical measure of iron status, although it's an "acute phase reactant" and can be high due to inflammation rather than just measuring iron, so it's good to be thoughtful when interpreting it. A good idea is also to do a full iron panel, which should lead one to the correct conclusion.

High dose oral vitamin C cannot approach the concentrations of vitamin C in the blood as IBC does. The NIH has shown that the gut can only absorb so much vitamin C at a time. IVC is typically given for its pro-oxidant qualities, to go after cancer and/or infections.

I was given a lot of IVC during both my cancer treatment as well as for infections, and though I think it really worked well for the cancer was an unfortunate side effect, as I had undetected hereditary hemochromatosis (iron overload) and the fact that I had access iron in my system caused the vitamin C to interact with the iron and damage my cells and mitochondria, contributing to my fatigue problem. And, unfortunately the IVC didn't help my infections as much as we hoped, as my immune system was also not working too well.

So, while I think IVC can be a tremendously useful tool, it should be used by someone who knows what they're doing, and after checking out the patient for iron levels as well as G6PD, a genetic anomaly which can lead to death when given IVC.

In hindsight, I wish my doctors would have identified my rising iron levels and dealt with that. Before overloaded me with vitamin C. I was able to repair the damage, and now I keep my ferritin at am optimal level.

 

[Wayne]

@Wayne , noting that treatment is individualized, do you have any information on his/your guidance on how long VitC/hydrocortizone therapy should be given?

Hi @almost -- I really don't. I've done very few Vit. C IV's, and found them to be somewhat harsh. However, when I put 3-4 grams of sodium ascorbate in a therapeutic retention enema, I find it to be gentle and energizing. I do this 3-4 times a week. I think self-administered Vit. retention enemas would probably be a better option for most people--though I can't say for sure.

Regarding the hydrocortisone, I think that 1-2 weeks of low-dose hydrocortisone would work well for most people. I think however, that Dr. Levy believed he had a chronic low-cortisol situation, and used supplementation on an ongoing basis. I myself have taken 20 mg./day of Cortef (hydrocortisone) for over 20 years, and have experienced only positive results.

BTW, when I do the retention enemas with Vit. C, I also add a few drops of methylene blue. It also has a gentle stimulating effect, and really seems to bring a mental clarity along with it.

Hi @Learner1!

 

[Judee]

I get the Mercola brand liposomal Vit. C. It normally runs around $37 for 180 1-gram softgels, so around 1/6 of what it used to cost. I get regular emails from him, and so I wait until it's on sale, and stock up on it for around $30/bottle.

Wayne, do you find that Mercola's works as well as the Livon?

 

[Wayne]

Wayne, do you find that Mercola's works as well as the Livon?

Hi @Judee -- I can't really say, as it's been so long since I did an initial trial with the expensive Livon. However, my wife muscles tests every supplement she takes, and she does fine with the Mercola Lipo. C.

I take about 2-4 grams/daily of the Mercola Lipo C, but I also use bulk sodium ascorbate a lot. I put some in my mouth when I do oil pulling, as I suspect I have some low-grade oral infections, which can cause localized scurvy in the mouth.

I also make a "vitamin C paste", where I dissolve some sodium ascorbate and MSM in a lotion, and then rub it all over my body. It feels really good, and supports all the collagen, skin, ligaments, joints etc. It's also the best remedy I've discovered for a persistent skin rash that cycles in and out (worse in winter).

I've thought that this paste could be helpful for those who've had shingles @lenora, or experience other types of skin and neuropathic pain syndromes.

 

[lenora]

Yes, @Wayne, shingles was a series of mishaps that I never, ever want to repeat. Four times, three in successive order was just way too much. I did have the last 95% proof vaccine. Nothing since then....and you'll never know how grateful I am.

Now they have anti-virals and special creams that can help with both the itching and the pain afterwards. I remember I was taking lysine around the clock. The attacks also started severe panic attacks...all in all, a child's day at the fair (NOT!). Yours, Lenora