Dr. Pridgen's 9 different cocktail mix patents & research under Dr. Carol Duffy name

[Jon_Tradicionali]

The big question for me would be how we could know the benefit was not just due to the painkilling effect of celecoxib? Surely they would need to have a celecoxib alone control arm?

Due to the fact that IMC-1 was effective in resolving symptoms other than pain.

But I do agree that this combination may have worked due to effects which have not been investigated yet.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

@Jonathan Edwards,

In one of the press releases, the virologist, Dr. Carol Duffy, said that they had taken G.I. tract biopsies and she had found HSV-1 and no other herpes viruses.

I think this press release explains it better than I can,

http://www.as.ua.edu/home/professor-surgeon-team-headed-to-third-phase-clinical-trials/

do you find this high rate of HSV-1 in biopsies significant, or since so much of the human population has been infected with HSV-1, it might be expected?

The question would be what she found with her technique in normal controls. Without that I don't think one can interpret it. I don't know how herpes viruses hide but I guess HSV-1 would be the most likely one to find in gut, unless the biopsies went deep enough to get B cells.

 

[natasa778]

Due to the fact that IMC-1 was effective in resolving symptoms other than pain.

But I do agree that this combination may have worked due to effects which have not been investigated yet.

Also as far as I know (from the articles, haven't read the paper yet) the positive effects were not there when using celecoxib on its own, it only worked when combined with the antiviral.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Due to the fact that IMC-1 was effective in resolving symptoms other than pain.

But I do agree that this combination may have worked due to effects which have not been investigated yet.

But the quoted measures all look as if they include pain (in some total assessment) or things that tend to get better when pain gets better, like function and fatigue.

My thought is that the combination might be working through mechanisms that have been investigated for a long time - pain relief by celecoxib as a Cox-2 inhibitor.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Also as far as I know (from the articles, haven't read the paper yet) the positive effects were not there when using celecoxib on its own, it only worked when combined with the antiviral.

The abstract we have seen gives no mention of a celecoxib alone group in this trial. And celecoxib is quite good for pain so we would not expect it to have no effect alone.

 

[natasa778]

http://www.ncmm.uio.no/news/cox-2-inhibitors-and-hiv.html
http://www.ncmm.uio.no/news/cox-2-inhibitors-and-hiv.html

Interesting ...

...researchers discovered that blocking this enzyme in HIV patients with COX-2 inhibitors can decrease immune activation

Researchers at the University of Oslo and Oslo University Hospital have recently published a study indicating that treatment with celecoxib, an anti-inflammatory drug commonly used to treat pain and arthritis, can improve the outcomes for HIV patients that have not been treated with any anti-retroviral drugs.

....
To test the effectiveness of COX-2 inhibitors in HIV patients, various markers of chronic immune activation were compared between treated and non-treated patients. The primary endpoint was the density of CD38, a marker of chronic immune activation, on T cells. The significant decrease in CD38 seen in the HIV patients treated with COX-2 inhibitors likely correlates to a slower depletion of CD4+ T cells and therefore a slower progression to AIDS.

Other markers of chronic immune activation were also shown to improve after treatment, such as decreased PD-1 expression, increased numbers of regulatory T cells and lower levels of antibodies (IgA). In addition, a vaccination sub-study demonstrated improved responses to T cell-dependent vaccines, which is particularly relevant to HIV patients.

 

[alex3619]

I never found celebrex to help with pain aside from headaches - it wont touch my ME/fibro muscle pain. Back when it was still around I did find Vioxx effective, to a small extent, but I would not take it regularly as I did not like the obvious biochemistry. It was effective because it shut down eicosanoid synthesis, which is dangerous if its too extreme.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I never found celebrex to help with pain aside from headaches - it wont touch my ME/fibro muscle pain. Back when it was still around I did find Vioxx effective, to a small extent, but I would not take it regularly as I did not like the obvious biochemistry. It was effective because it shut down eicosanoid synthesis, which is dangerous if its too extreme.

I believe you Alex, but celecoxib will have got into the market through double blind RCTs showing efficacy in musculoskeletal pain, I think is reasonably certain.

 

[Folk]

Is that supposed to work only for those who had herpes manifestation in the skin or something? Or is just the virus itself in the body?

 

[Jon_Tradicionali]

I believe you Alex, but celecoxib will have got into the market through double blind RCTs showing efficacy in musculoskeletal pain, I think is reasonably certain.

If you look at how Pridgen came about to the stage he is at, you will see that he had been giving his FM patients Celebrex to help with the pain they had been complaining of.

He then experimented by giving them an antiviral and after a few months, patients would return and say virtually ALL symptoms had disappeared.

And that was the catalyst which has lead to to what we are seeing now.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

If you look at how Pridgen came about to the stage he is at, you will see that he had been giving his FM patients Celebrex to help with the pain they had been complaining of.

He then experimented by giving them an antiviral and after a few months, patients would return and say virtually ALL symptoms had disappeared.

And that was the catalyst which has lead to to what we are seeing now.

Yes, but then he has to do a trial showing the difference between the two drugs and celecoxib alone. Otherwise no regulatory authorities are going to be interested in giving a licence and nobody will know if his hunch was right. You do have to test the idea rather than assume it was the case. And the study seems to show fairly clearly that all symptoms disappearing was pretty uncommon - and not that much more common than in the placebo group, as Bob points out on the other thread.

 

[alex3619]

I believe you Alex, but celecoxib will have got into the market through double blind RCTs showing efficacy in musculoskeletal pain, I think is reasonably certain.

The problem is fibro and ME related muscle pain is not conventional. In my experience physio does not work, cold and heat packs have minimal effect, heat rubs barely touch it, most NSAIDs are useless. Not all muscle pain may be the same. There is a lack of research on this.

 

[Sidereal]

The problem is fibro and ME related muscle pain is not conventional. In my experience physio does not work, cold and heat packs have minimal effect, heat rubs barely touch it, most NSAIDs are useless. Not all muscle pain may be the same. There is a lack of research on this.

As far as I'm aware, muscle biopsies of ME/CFS and FM patients do not show evidence of inflammation.

 

[alex3619]

As far as I'm aware, muscle biopsies of ME/CFS and FM patients do not show evidence of inflammation.

Which is why anti-inflammatories have minimal effect. However we can get severe muscle pain. I needed Vioxx to have an effect, though a poor effect, but I refused to take that even semi-regularly, and considered Celebrex in the same light.

The exact nature of our muscle pain is still not determined. Metabolic, such as high lactic acid and poor aerobic metabolism? Vasoconstriction, cutting off blood supply? Neurological, with poor blood supply regulation? An infection, such as Coxsackie virus? Is there a difference between fibro and ME in this respect?

 

[Sidereal]

Which is why anti-inflammatories have minimal effect. However we can get severe muscle pain. I needed Vioxx to have an effect, though a poor effect, but I refused to take that even semi-regularly, and considered Celebrex in the same light.

The exact nature of our muscle pain is still not determined. Metabolic, such as high lactic acid and poor aerobic metabolism? Vasoconstriction, cutting off blood supply? Neurological, with poor blood supply regulation? An infection, such as Coxsackie virus? Is there a difference between fibro and ME in this respect?

Totally agree Alex. I get two types of muscle pain. NSAIDs and steroids don't touch my ME/FM related pain which feels like it's metabolic in nature, as if there's caustic stuff like excess acid in the muscle tissue. This type of pain is greatly exacerbated by aerobic activity. Physio/massage/stretching/walking etc. only makes it worse. With very strict pacing and electrolyte supplementation it disappears, but that comes at a price of being able to do virtually nothing and this comes after years of being in permanent pain due to overactivity and not understanding what's going on. On the other hand, anti-inflammatories and gentle activity are very helpful for my other type of pain, the kind that normal people can relate to, such as flu-like cytokine related pain in muscles, sciatica, joint aches.

 

[alex3619]

NSAIDs and steroids don't touch my ME/FM related pain which feels like it's metabolic in nature, as if there's caustic stuff like excess acid in the muscle tissue.

To me its a burning pain.

 

[Never Give Up]

@Jonathan Edwards,

In one of the press releases, the virologist, Dr. Carol Duffy, said that they had taken G.I. tract biopsies and she had found HSV-1 and no other herpes viruses.

I think this press release explains it better than I can,

http://www.as.ua.edu/home/professor-surgeon-team-headed-to-third-phase-clinical-trials/

do you find this high rate of HSV-1 in biopsies significant, or since so much of the human population has been infected with HSV-1, it might be expected?

It doesn't look like they biopsied the controls, just the fibromyalgics, so there is no way to know how meaningful it is that all of the fibromyalgics had HSV-1. They also didn't mention the HSV-1 in the abstract.

Neither Medscape, nor Medpage Today has reported on it. I wonder what other information Dr. Pridgen presented at the conference?

 

[JT1024]

Just wanted to comment since I have Fibro/ME/CFS and osteoarthritis...

Celebrex did nothing for me for my Fibro and my Rheumatologist told me it wouldn't and it wouldn't do anything for my arthritis for several months... no clue why.

I've had Fibro for 22 years and probably 6 days in 22 years without pain. When I began Valtrex, at the same time I was taking Celebrex, I enjoyed several days (3) without the fibromyalgia pain at all. It didn't last but I knew something significant had happened. I took my first dose at night and woke up the next morning amazed.

I am now trying to recapture the transformation. An Infectious Disease physician asked me why I thought the Valtrex worked and I said I had no clue at the time. She informed me that Herpes viruses love nervous tissue. She was not surprised at my improvement but she did say that the dosage I've been on has been insufficient for me to realize the true benefits. If I can switch to Famcylovir in the near future, I will.

 

[Never Give Up]

I am now trying to recapture the transformation. An Infectious Disease physician asked me why I thought the Valtrex worked and I said I had no clue at the time. She informed me that Herpes viruses love nervous tissue. She was not surprised at my improvement but she did say that the dosage I've been on has been insufficient for me to realize the true benefits. If I can switch to Famcylovir in the near future, I will.

Maybe that ID doc would like to prescribe the right meds at the right dose for you.

 

[Ecoclimber]

Yes, but then he has to do a trial showing the difference between the two drugs and celecoxib alone. Otherwise no regulatory authorities are going to be interested in giving a licence and nobody will know if his hunch was right. You do have to test the idea rather than assume it was the case. And the study seems to show fairly clearly that all symptoms disappearing was pretty uncommon - and not that much more common than in the placebo group, as Bob points out on the other thread.

However, Dr. Pridgen has assembled an impressive board that have brought a host of pharmceutical drugs to market including Celebrex so they should be quite knowledgeable about clinical trials. http://www.innovativemedconcepts.com/leadership.html & http://www.med.umich.edu/painresearch/staff/clauw.htm.

It will be interesting to see where all this will lead. At least it's a research study that is away from psychsocial model of CBT/GET and PACE and hopefully get researchers to think outside the box and open the entrenched mindset among those in the medical profession concerning Fibro, GWI, and ME/CFS.