Dr Chia finds 2% of ME/CFS cases are due to varicella zoster virus reactivation (shingles), and this form of ME/CFS is very treatable

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

Bacterial rashes aren't uncommon either with shingles.

Entirely new to me.

ketones increase the risk of viral reactivations.

Again new. Why then do some profit? Bc we all have latent infections. Interesting!

Why is it limited to these shingles-typical places and doesn't typically occur on extremities,

My rash was localized to my torso mostly and not to extremities

wouldn't you be able to reinfect your skin by scratching somewhere else and getting it there?

very interesting question! I also have to dive deeper!

 

[nerd]

Entirely new to me.

Inflammated skin is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria.

Again new. Why then do some profit? Bc we all have latent infections. Interesting!

That's the question. I count myself to the group who profited in some way. There's the advantage for the NAD+/NADH balance of course. There's the advantage for the cellular energy availability.

Regarding the viral reactivations, I have two theories. First, it might be that the viruses reactivate but the physiological response during keto is much better in fighting it off and getting rid of more latent cells than the replication can counterweight. Second, it's possible that the latent viral activity is the main issue in ME, not the acute, not the completely dormant, but the low-level latent-lytic activity. The reactivation would push it out this state and force it in either direction. In one direction, they just disappear, in the other direction, they force the immune recognition that is absent during the earlier phases. But I'm still investigating this subject.

My rash was localized to my torso mostly and not to extremities

Mine as well, typical for both keto and shingles rash. Both can happen on extremities as well but it's rather seldom.

 

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

but the low-level latent-lytic activity. The reactivation would push it out this state and force it in either direction. In one direction, they just disappear, in the other direction, they force the immune recognition that is absent during the earlier phases. But I'm still investigating this subject.

I have the same theory but including non-cytolytic EV.

There's the advantage for the cellular energy availability.

then every cell would possibly profit including immune cells

Mine as well, typical for both keto and shingles rash. Both can happen on extremities as well but it's rather seldom.

maybe I should just try Valtrex for a few weeks and see if it does sth

 

[nerd]

I have the same theory but including non-cytolytic EV

Equally valid

then every cell would possibly profit including immune cells

Yes

maybe I should just try Valtrex for a few weeks and see if it does sth

For shingles, much larger doses are necessary, aren't they? Normal-dose Valtrex affected my blood markers, unfortunately, so I had to stop. I think it was also responsible for why I felt so poor for a period during keto. I wish there was an equally potent virustatic that doesn't damage tubular cells.

 

[roller]

I had chickenpox as a child and I never had any visible blisters recently but when I did a specific testing (see attached picture) the value for HHV-3 (VZV) is extremely high.

it seems, one can have shingles internally.
without any blisters, but infecting organs/tissue.
e.g. eyes, ears, and as @Wolfcub said, the teeth-nerves

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postherpetic_neuralgia

 

[roller]

shingles may be triggered by covid, virus & vaccination.

so, no surprise here anymore, why so many ppl all get so easily prescribed that gabapentin/lyrica addiction drug...
its indicated for post-shingles.

 

[kewia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postherpetic_neuralgia

Interesting, it seems a 4-fold increase of Herpes Zoster antibodies supports already the diagnosis of herpes zoster, but is seen as a weak/subclinical infection/reactivation.

 

[bad1080]

i had chicken pox as a teen, is it possible to have reactivation w/o the rash?

 

[EddieB]

i had chicken pox as a teen, is it possible to have reactivation w/o the rash?

From what I’ve gathered, there would be some sort of breakout,/ rash as an indicator. One report, he diagnosed a patient with just a single blister.
But as stated above, maybe possibly to have internal without visible signs.

I’ve occasionally had stuff that looks like this, usually milder. I’ve asked doctors if this is zoster and they say no.
So I’m not sure.


Ive attempted valtrex, but can’t tolerate it stomach wise.

 

[bad1080]

But as stated above, maybe possibly to have internal without visible signs.

thanks! i had no energy to go through all the replies...

 

[bad1080]

Bacterial rashes aren't uncommon either with shingles

very interesting! i have something called erythrasma and my doc said it is bacterial. i had it chronically at least since i was 15 or 16y/o so shortly after i had chickenpox.

here is what i could find:

Complications may be dermatological (e.g. secondary bacterial infection)

from: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4591524/

 

[gelliott]

Woah, I had shingles a few months before things went a bit crazy for me. I didn't associate that, interesting.

V2 nerve set left side of face, was going after V1 which could have put out my eye (shown in the opening post graphic), but antivirals kicked in just exactly in time. (Shingles nerve list. Not shown, but generally divides left or right side of body.) Had wonderful doctors that had me getting on the available antivirals, and my eye doctor just stopped seeing his next patients in line until he could find a more powerful antiviral that wasn't going to be thousands of dollars (which I could not have afforded).

Many months later, inner ear problems, meningeal lining problems.

So, I have a few symptoms similar to some of ME over the years after that. And going with that postnasal drip on the left side, activated by almost any of the foods in the "no" list by Dr. Steven Gundry for leaky gut problems. (Can completely clear up all symptoms with diet.)

 

[Violeta]

I'm having trouble with the write up of this post, but check this study.

Evidence for antiviral activity of glutathione: in vitro inhibition of herpes simplex virus type 1 replication​

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/016635429500008A

And here's a video by a doctor talking about glutathione for shingles.

https://danpursermd.com/could-glutathione-treat-shingles

 

[gelliott]

If I understand correctly, one idea in this thread is about patients who have an active continuing or chronic case of shingles, said case producing some symptoms that are found in ME.

My question is about nerve damage or aftereffects of resolved instances of shingles. I have some weird chronic symptoms, and the worst first appeared (as I mentioned in post above) some time after I had apparently recovered from the shingles. I see some of the areas of my symptoms being listed along with the issues of the shingles on the specific nerve group involved when I had it. (V2 group on left, but later symptoms also covering mostly left inner ear but entire meningeal lining both sides--see the link I put for the nerve groups in a post above if wanting to see the associations of the nerve groups the virus affects and parts of the body.)

I don't believe I have an ongoing active shingles infection, though I really should get one of the vaccines to avoid a recurrence. All my symptoms can be completely put in remission by diet (along lines of Dr. Gundry for leaky gut which lowers essentially false flag immune system response where the body attacks stuff that leaks into the bloodstream). So, what I am wondering about is autoimmune reactions that are set up because of the damage that happened long ago when my chronic symptoms first occurred. (Other leaky gut autoimmune reactions I have are completely predictable outside of this issue, like arthritis like pain in random joints--this is also resolved by my diet but I don't think the original cause or setup of that is related to the shingles. Just certain weird chronic conditions that started several months after I had shingles.)

I definitely have long term nerve damage causing some symptoms. Imaginary itch in left face is finally getting better after a decade, but whenever having any postnasal drip it is extreme on the left. I can see those beneath the surface systems being connected to the V2 nerve group. (I had V1 group involvement, but was so short I don't think there was any permanent damage before antivirals took effect.)

 

[Violeta]

It's busy in my house this morning, but see if either of these studies have anything helpful for you.

I know they do for me, because I do have something going on with norepinephrine and glutamate.

Infection by human varicella-zoster virus confers norepinephrine sensitivity to sensory neurons from rat dorsal root ganglia​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11292665/

I can't get to this one on my laptop, but here's the link.
This is what it's about.
"In addition, there may be a role of sympathetic activity via α-adrenergic receptors in mediating at least some types of herpes zoster pain."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030439590000230X

And here's some information about glutamate receptors.


PS: Might have something to do with glutathione.
Postherpetic neuralgia (PHN), a chronic pain condition following shingles, involves an overactive glutamatergic system in the brain. Specifically, the NMDA receptor, a glutamate receptor, plays a significant role in the increased pain and sensitivity experienced in PHN. This is due to factors like increased glutamate release, increased NMDA receptors, and impaired glutamate clearance.

 

[Violeta]

I started taking n-acetylcysteine hoping to improve glutathione levels 4 or 5 days ago.

The morning after the first day, I felt horrible, the worst morning headache I had in a long time. (I realize it could have been something else.)

This morning I took some with my morning tea, ginseng, and ginkgo, and the postherpetic neuralgia I was experiencing went away completely. It's still not bothering me.

We'll see how long this works.