http://howirecovered.com/active-b12-therapy-faq/
There Eric provides well organized information that can save you from trying to find your way through the voluminous information on Phoenix Rising. It will help you understand Active B12 therapy and methylation
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ficiency-insufficiency-and-edema.26944/unread
Freddd: The body is said to have a “triage” system for distribution, or maybe utilization of, b12 and folate. Healing can turn on with methylation and ATP startup and yet deficiency symptoms can worsen on other layers. The placement of edema within a layer can be done by the symptoms set it responds with; angular cheilitis, IBS and acne type lesions, and others, depending upon duration and severity of insufficiency.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/active-b12-protocol-basics.10138/page-8
ratios, once again.....the ratios between MeCbl/AdCbl/MeFolate + cofactors are of course individual and must be determined by trial and error, right? However, what are the recommended ratios to start out with?
There are no fixed ratios.
With 1mg of AdoCbl and 1mg of MeCbl each held for 1-2 hours against oral mucosa, one could end up with 200-400 mcg or more absorbed. This is enough to turn on all layers of healing except CNS for many of us. A start of methylfolate of 800mcg or less will usually produce a burst of healing on a couple of layers that then demands more folate than the body has easily available and so shorts other layers to supply the ones that are healing causing paradoxical folate insufficiency. So one titrates methylfolate until the insufficiency symptoms go away. This is usually between 1600mcg and 20-30mg depending upon how one reacts to other folates and B1, b2, b3.
While this is happening there is also usually a need for potassium of which needs to be titrated to the level of no symptoms. This usually happens in the range of 1200-3000mg daily in 4-6 divided doses. Again, this is dependent upon how fast cells are being formed and if too much b1, b2, and/or b3 can also be insatiable.
It is via systematic titration, finding peak effectiveness and staying there, not trial and error.
...Serum halflife might be a problem. If I don’t take b-complex twice a day I get a 24 hour pain cycle and at the 16-24 hour mark, heart arrhythmias. AdoCbl and LCF usually make for a much more even energy as they restore the mitochondria and are essential for that. Many have found that a second smaller LCF dose in midafternoon makes a difference. Also, l-methylfolate has a short halflife, about 3 hours so I find it best in at least 3 doses a day
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...otassium-but-potassium-opposes-mf-help.25857/
I’ve been on Freddd’s protocol for about 2 months.
1) I’ve finally realized that I need Deplin level amounts of methyfolate (right now I’m at 10mg, but will probably have to go higher, possibly much higher).
2) I’ve also finally realized that I need to supplement with a LOT of potassium (1,000 to 2,000.
3) Well, I’ve read on these boards that potassium will block methyfolate.
4) Freddd also says that it’s important to keep a stream of Methyfolate going, dosing throughout the day, rather than a big dose.
So, logistically how can I get both of these things into my body throughout the day?!!
So frustrated!!!!
Hi Soporificat, [Fred response]
I know what you. The timing can be difficult. I take 4000mcg of Metafolin with my pre-meal supplements and meds; SAM-e, LCF, Levothyroxine, DHEA, Pregnenolone. An hour later I take 400mg of potassium. Then just before a meal I might have a couple of more folate tablets and then 30 minutes later take 5 or 6 potassium with the meal. I take b-complex with food. I also take 300mg of potassium at bedtime. However, with the folate unwound to needing 4mg to stop the cheilitis, I can now see if 6 or 8mg helps something even more. If the doses are 30-60 minutes apart or 2 hour after food, they don’t interfere particularly. I take the folate and then 30 minutes later potassium. I take the folate before food and the potassium with the food. It takes some practice. What I think is desirable is to have healing going, even if not perfect and then you get clues, more or less of folate or potassium needed. Follow the clues. Take small steps in titrating up to home in on a dose from below.
Considering that B1, B2 and B3 can cause changes in how much potassium and Metafolin might be used daily, it might pay to check the labels and find out how much you are getting. I found that a B-50 type supplement was too much in the b1 b2 b3 combo. Taking 100mg extras was too much. I found a b-complex with only 20mg of b1 and similar on the others and take it twice a day. It has slowed down the rate of potassium and folate need.
However, keep in mind that that amount of potassium and folate being used is in the range of that of people having effective healing. Stopping the potassium need stops the healing. HyCbl can affect about up to 30% of the symptoms for up to 70% of people. Nobody actually heals on it as the majority of b12 deficiency symptoms will keep worsening even while a few symptoms may improve. HyCbl is great for having the illusion of doing something and will keep most people safe from the discomforts of healing. Unfortunately they will generally continue to have worsening symptoms more narrowly defined. Good health to you. Follow the clues. If you keep it up for a year most of the symptoms being affected now will be largely gone and a different set will be healing.
....Have you identified your early onset folate insufficiency symptoms? I don’t use or suggest any specific fixed ratios. For instance I suggest l-Methylfolate be increased until one doesn’t have periodic bouts or continuous folate insufficiency symptoms. For me these a certain type of muscle pain, angular cheilitis, acne on my face, IBS and so on.
100mcg absorbed AdoCbl/MeCbl is all that is needed to start the need for even 30mg of Metafolin. These items are not tied together in any ratio. It is more the B1, B2 and B3 and maybe other things that drive the relative needs for methylfolate and potassium. Also, the amount of l-methylfolate a person needs also depends on how well their body handles folic acid, folinic acid and veggie folates.
....(Freddd)
At this point I am working out a 1 at a time titration of those three to try myself. I would suggest adding perhaps 25mg of one of them and waiting a couple of weeks and see what happens and proceeding from there. Re B1,2,3
...In the past decade I have seen several different causes for anxiety augmentation. There is an effect that affects some people to a degree but rarely just completely intolerable. It has to do with the ratio of AdoCbl to MeCbl. Sometimes when that gets out of balance, it has caused some anxiety and irritability.
Another thing that happens is that some people with a specific damage in the limbic system (part of the brain that affects a lot of emotions and such) when they start B12, especially AdoCbl. If the person is not taking l-carnitine fumarate, the AdoCbl effect often isn’t too intense and tends to end in a few days as with AdoCbl it is a one or two time change usually, doesn’t increase with the next AdoCbl dose and wears off after a while. However, If a person takes even a small dose of carnitine and goes through the roof with anxiety, panic, fear , anger etc. Interestingly sometimes TMG can take the edge off, shifting the balance like MeCbl. It is possible to microdose carnitine. There are those who have managed to microtitrate the carnitine and find that the anxiety diminishes over time as the nerves appear to heal.
Does any of this sound like it is similar to yours. It isn’t a BAD sign. It’s an indication of severity of deficiency and some of the damage which MIGHT be healable.