Does high iron but low ferritin point to heavy metal toxicity?

[Learner1]

The HDRI panel is best.

 

[caledonia]

Hello Caledonia
Can you tell me what is the best methylation panel to get that test things like SAH to SAME ratio etc?I see doctors data has a methylation panel. Also is high iron usually seen with heavy metal toxicity? If pubic hair is used for hair elements test, are results as valid as using head hair? I am seeing conflicting info. Thoughts?

If you've already done the Nutreval test, you can get a SAM/SAH ratio from that. It's literally the value for SAM divided by the value for SAH.

If not, the Doctors Data methylation panel tests that.

For the hair test I took, pubic hair is fine. That's the Doctors Data one listed in my signature link. It says that in the instructions once you receive the test.

As far as high iron, it looks like it could be literally iron toxicity, as in the iron itself is the toxic metal that you have, or hemachromatosis.

Here is an article that explains about high and low ferritin and what can cause it:
http://www.docsopinion.com/2016/06/26/ferritin/

Based on this article, if your ferritin is low, but iron is high, that rules out iron deficiency. In that case, other causes of low ferritin are celiac disease, hypothyroidism, and vitamin C deficiency.

This article says causes of high iron are primary and secondary hemachromatosis: (from here on out, I'm going to call it HC, too much to type out)
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/166455.php

If you don't have the genetic mutation for primary HC, then secondary HC can be caused by:

• A blood disorder, such as thalassemia
• Chronic liver disease, such as chronic hepatitis C infection, alcoholic liver disease, or non-alcoholic steatohepatitis
• Blood transfusions and some types of anemia that require a transfusion
• Rare inherited diseases that affect red blood cells, including atransferrinemia or aceruloplasminaemia
• Drinking beer that has been brewed in iron containers, known as African iron overload
• Oral iron pills or iron injections, with or without very high vitamin C intake
• Long-term kidney dialysis

If you want to know about mercury and high iron, I don't know off the top of my head. That would be a good one to ask on the Cutler Frequent Dose Chelation forum.

 

[sk123]

The HDRI panel is best.

I see that this is a comprehensive panel but very pricey too. Will this tell me where my methylation blocks are exactly? Can this info be collected from a nutreval and a spectracell micronutrient test? I am planning initially to do a hair test to get an idea of how the lithium levels are etc. Then will get more into heavy metals if that shows something. I have no dental work done touch wood so far so I am clear of amalgams. I have been doing better with just taking molybdenum 50 mcg twice a day, 5 mg lithium orotate daily ( bit afraid to continue taking daily so hoping hair test helps here). Not as jumpy as before. Before I would see a bug and would jump 10 feet all startled. Maybe excessive sulfites are being controlled with molybdenum. Hope you are doing well. If I may ask, what kind of courses you take as you mentioned having notes from a lecture ?

 

[Learner1]

Glad to hear you're making progress.

I've been to sseveral conferences and courses... just keep my eyes out for them, along with a lot of online courses and research. On this topic, I learned from some of Ben Lynch's courses, where doctors from all over shared case studies.

No one used SpectraCell - there's not enough information to work with. Most used the NutrEval - its comprehensive and they solved a variety of problems with it. Lynch and 3 or 4 of the most experienced doctors used the HDRI and pinpointed exactly what's going on. I'd say you need a doctor who can interpret it, but if he/she can and you specifically are interested in methylation, it'd be the best.

I have 8 years of NutrEvals for multiple family members... They've changed over time as we've hit different bottlenecks. It's a very useful test, especially as it goes beyond methylation to antioxidants, Krebs cycle, mitochondrial dysfunction, neurotransmitter metabolites, and toxicity.

I take Thorne Research 1 mg molybdenum daily and have for a couple years, along with 5-600mg benfotiamine and 1g taurine to keep my transsulfuration pathway moving. The NutrEval keeps an eye on my molybdenum level, which used to be low and now is normal.

I also get glutathione, molybdenum, and taurine in IVs, as a support to large doses of methylation nutrients.

Its a matter of getting everything in balance working backwards... Get transsulfuration working, then optimize the methionine cycle, then add folate. Then, as you detox, you'll raise the nutrient levels appropriately to keep making glutathione.

Also, the docs were all using the Doctors Data provoked urine heavy metals test. No one used a hair test....

Keep going on this... it will help you in the long run.

 

[sk123]

Glad to hear you're making progress.

I've been to sseveral conferences and courses... just keep my eyes out for them, along with a lot of online courses and research. On this topic, I learned from some of Ben Lynch's courses, where doctors from all over shared case studies.

No one used SpectraCell - there's not enough information to work with. Most used the NutrEval - its comprehensive and they solved a variety of problems with it. Lynch and 3 or 4 of the most experienced doctors used the HDRI and pinpointed exactly what's going on. I'd say you need a doctor who can interpret it, but if he/she can and you specifically are interested in methylation, it'd be the best.

I have 8 years of NutrEvals for multiple family members... They've changed over time as we've hit different bottlenecks. It's a very useful test, especially as it goes beyond methylation to antioxidants, Krebs cycle, mitochondrial dysfunction, neurotransmitter metabolites, and toxicity.

I take Thorne Research 1 mg molybdenum daily and have for a couple years, along with 5-600mg benfotiamine and 1g taurine to keep my transsulfuration pathway moving. The NutrEval keeps an eye on my molybdenum level, which used to be low and now is normal.

I also get glutathione, molybdenum, and taurine in IVs, as a support to large doses of methylation nutrients.

Its a matter of getting everything in balance working backwards... Get transsulfuration working, then optimize the methionine cycle, then add folate. Then, as you detox, you'll raise the nutrient levels appropriately to keep making glutathione.

Also, the docs were all using the Doctors Data provoked urine heavy metals test. No one used a hair test....

Keep going on this... it will help you in the long run.

Hi Learner 1
Whenever you have a moment, are you able to glance at my recent post please regarding OATS and Spectracell micronutrient test , and methylation? The cysteine is even low now. If CBS SNP was overactive, I would have high cysteine no? Even serine is lowish now. Is there a pattern that can be recognized? How to clean gut out effectively? I was doing well and then a stressful week at work and bam all went south.
Any insight is greatly appreciated!
Thanks a million in advance!

 

[Learner1]

Hi, happy to.
Where did you post it? Or you can start a conversation, if you like.

 

[sk123]

Sorry still trying to figure out how things work on this site. I posted it under the treatments and then under detox. Title is "help with methylation, interpreting oats and micronutrient test." Maybe it will pull up in search bar. Im deficient in folate and b12 is borderline on micronutrient test but oats showed very high mma. So confused as to when to start folate and what amount to begin with and what type of b12 to start with.
Let me know please if you see the post.
Thank you

 

[Learner1]

Sorry still trying to figure out how things work on this site. I posted it under the treatments and then under detox. Title is "help with methylation, interpreting oats and micronutrient test." Maybe it will pull up in search bar. Im deficient in folate and b12 is borderline on micronutrient test but oats showed very high mma. So confused as to when to start folate and what amount to begin with and what type of b12 to start with.
Let me know please if you see the post.
Thank you

I answered over there. Start with the B12...probably methyl... Hard to take too much. Then add 5-MTHF as needed. I take Thorne MethylGuard Plus & Neurochondroa together, then add 5-MTHF as I need it. But we're all different. Also, you may need help with transsulfuration, but hard to tell from your results.

 

[jjxx]

I take Thorne Research 1 mg molybdenum daily and have for a couple years, along with 5-600mg benfotiamine and 1g taurine to keep my transsulfuration pathway moving. The NutrEval keeps an eye on my molybdenum level, which used to be low and now is normal.

1mg moly daily is quite high. My guess is that copper deficiency induced by moly is not a concern in your case.

 

[Learner1]

1mg moly daily is quite high. My guess is that copper deficiency induced by moly is not a concern in your case.

No, I am using every bit of it, along with B1, taurine, and the methylating nutrients. My doctor and I just keep the entire system cranked up.

My copper is monitored regularly, but middle range, and I take a fair amount of zinc, too.

 

[jjxx]

No, I am using every bit of it, along with B1, taurine, and the methylating nutrients. My doctor and I just keep the entire system cranked up.

My copper is monitored regularly, but middle range, and I take a fair amount of zinc, too.

Then, did you ever suspect yourself with copper toxicity prior to your supplementing moly as one of causes of your illness? or moly corrected your copper overload?

 

[Learner1]

No, copper overload has never been a problem.

My daughter had a zinc/ oppeer imbalance a few years back so I'm very aware of the issue. She just took a little extra zinc, and even so, our doctor, who is an expert had her on molybdenum.

I suspect some people who think various methylation nutrients don't agree with them actually have mobilized something they can't get rid of as they don't have enough B1, taurine, or molybdenum to drive transsulfuration.

Hope this helps.

 

[alicec]

as they don't have enough B1, taurine, or molybdenum to drive transsulfuration.

Why do you think that taurine drives transsulfuration? Where does B1 fit into transsulfuration?

 

[Learner1]

I first learned about it from Ben Lynch, who delves extensively into research papers before making any pronouncements. I've talked to him in person about some of this. I trust his process, so I haven't looked up s paper on my own.

Then, as I've mobilized toxins, at times, I've had sulfur build up and come out of me. My labs have shown low values for these nutrients, making the theory quite believable. Stepping up these nutrients, along with using curcumin and charcoal (at different times) for crisis management has improved things mightily.

 

[alicec]

I trust his process, so I haven't looked up s paper on my own.

I'd want more evidence for such a surprising claim. Taurine is an end product of transsulfuration. When products act as regulators, it is as inhibitors.

This makes sense intuitively. When product is accumulating it signals the pathway to slow down. When product is in short supply, it signals the pathway to speed up.

For a product to stimulate a pathway would lead to continuous increased flux regardless of need.

 

[Learner1]

Ask him, not me. He is very meticulous about pulling together scientific studies that support what he's saying.

All I can tell you is, with 9 years of my family's NutrEvals, supplementing and knowing our SNPs, his theories seem to agree with what our actual experience has been and gives us great guidance in self- managing going forward.

 

[jjxx]

I first learned about it from Ben Lynch, who delves extensively into research papers before making any pronouncements. I've talked to him in person about some of this. I trust his process, so I haven't looked up s paper on my own.

Then, as I've mobilized toxins, at times, I've had sulfur build up and come out of me. My labs have shown low values for these nutrients, making the theory quite believable. Stepping up these nutrients, along with using curcumin and charcoal (at different times) for crisis management has improved things mightily.

Very interesting! There are many dots to be connected between heavy metal toxicity, and sulfur-containing compounds such as B1, taurine as you mentioned.

In my case, after I added moly to facilitate sulfite to sulfate conversion, benfotiamine lost its effect on me completely. My rational is that not enough sulfite there destroying my B1 anymore. However taurine and MSM depress my energy, part of which I can only speculating has to do with my sluggish liver or imbalanced phase1/2 detox pathway. Boosting sulfate seems a reasonable experimentation for me, my next trial to consider is Epsom salt.

 

[Gondwanaland]

However taurine and MSM depress my energy

For me too, and I suspected low blood pressure / hypoglycemia, but interrupted intake before measuring.

 

[jjxx]

For me too, and I suspected low blood pressure / hypoglycemia, but interrupted intake before measuring.

Considering there are hundreds of nutrients and wastes our body produces at any given moment, and any one or any combination of those compounds being high or low, there are hardly two identical CFS cases.

But you and I do share many similar complaints.

 

[jjxx]

It's reasonable to speculate anyone who benefit from moly supplement may have inefficient conversion of sulfite to sulfate, and its crucial to drive this conversion not leaving sulfite accumulating as a toxin to body. On the other hand, do you see the benefit of supplementing sulfate directly (MSM, Epsom salt and others) to these patients?