Does brain fog reduce the spiritual sense?

[Sparrowhawk]

Myerhoff's _Peyote Hunt_ is a great introduction to shamanic tradional use of external inputs to access the spiritual. Given how hard that is on the body it's not something I'd counsel with CFIDS/ME. Ayahuasca (sp?) is about the same, AFAIK, quite hard on the system. If you have fungal or mold issues, magic mushrooms would also be right out.

If you could clone yourself multiple times, then you could try various substances (drugs, food, vitamins) or meditative, electrical, musical inputs and see if they restored the access to that spiritual sense in a controlled study where N would still = 1. My surmise, though, is that rather than battering through whatever the existing barrier is, the better path is to heal the body, and the spiritual capacity ought to be restored at the same time.

Pick your descriptive explanation for this loss: viruses impinge on some portion of the brain or nervous system; vibrational or subtle body out of synch and thus out of phase with the spiritual vibes; or merely having such an energy deficit that one just can't muster more than basic survival; or my favorite answer: D) All of the Above.

Purely academic, but I have read it asserted here that the POTS/OI is one of the last things to leave you once recovering or in remission. So it makes me wonder where on that sequence of healing the spiritual capacity might pop back into the picture.

I can't recall, did you do the gene testing and have you tried the methylation approach?

 

[Hip]

Sparrowhawk
Well the full cure for ME/CFS remains elusive for most people, but the possibility of ameliorating specific symptoms tends to be more feasible. If I can find anything that helps bring at least some of my spiritual energies back, I'd be very pleased.

Entheogens: I have a lot of trepidation when it comes to entheogens, and even more so now that my mind is weak with ME/CFS. Though their effects have always interested me.

This account of three ayahuasca trips that an individual with ME/CFS took is fascinating: on each of the three occasions, he found every single symptom of his ME/CFS completely disappeared for the few hours of the ayahuasca trip. This experience suggests that ME/CFS is largely underpinned by aberrant brain chemistry rather than any major physical changes to the brain, since the effects that ayahuasca had on this patient's neurochemistry apparently cured his ME/CFS for a short period.

One thing that I might try is low dose psilocybin mushrooms — at a dose just below the threshold for a psychdelic trip. One interesting thing about psilocybin is that this substance has been shown to repair the brain damage caused by trauma, and in this way to treat PTSD.ᐞ

 

[Wifi123]

Yes Hip, brain fog does reduce your spiritual wisdom and discernment because of memory loss and forgetfulness and as you said that a cure for ME/CFS will always be elusive.

For a long time now, say 40 years, most sufferers of undiagnosable syndromes have been heading in the wrong direction, running around in circles on the medical merry-go-round trying to find that elusive causation factor, and having the wool pulled over their eyes from a cover-up.

US DIA documents of 1972 and 1976 provides much information of the cover-up of what happens to people exposed to microwave radiation below thermal levels, and it’s recorded that they experience neurological, cardiovascular and haemodynamic disturbances and exhibit a variety of neurasthenic disorders. It is also recorded that they suffer symptoms of headaches, fatigue, dizziness, irritability, agitation, tension, drowsiness, sleeplessness, depression, anxiety, forgetfulness, and lack of concentration, which are the very same disturbances that was reported in 1998 of wireless technology users: http://www.greenarmour.com.au/proof.php

These symptoms above are no different to CFS/ME/FMS of the 21st Century.

In 1972 they stated that low frequency electromagnetic fields have been found to generate sonic and ultrasonic oscillations in living organisms that produce elastic deformations in the organism. If the frequency of the outside field corresponds to the oscillation frequency of the cells, the latter deteriorate.

The UCLA Brain information Service in Los Angeles compiled an extensive bibliographic list on the biological effects of electromagnetic fields that affects the central nervous system, which in turns produce all the same symptoms of CFS, ME, and FMS.

The DIA documents also said that any enforcement of stringent exposure standards would be unfavourable on the electronic technology industry output and military functions, which would also make the commercial exploitation of some products unattractive because of increased costs imposed by the need for additional safeguards.

Wow, what a cover-up that is possibly the causation factor of most CFS, ME, and FMS sufferers.

REF:

ST-CS-01-169-72 July 1972

DST-1810S-076-76 March 1976

DST-1810S-074-76 March 1976

The causation factor of most undiagnosable syndromes has been known for a long time.

 

[knackers323]

Sparrowhawk
Well the full cure for ME/CFS remains elusive for most people, but the possibility of ameliorating specific symptoms tends to be more feasible. If I can find anything that helps bring at least some of my spiritual energies back, I'd be very pleased.

Entheogens: I have a lot of trepidation when it comes to entheogens, and even more so now that my mind is weak with ME/CFS. Though their effects have always interested me.



This account of three ayahuasca trips that an individual with ME/CFS took is fascinating: on each of the three occasions, he found every single symptom of his ME/CFS completely disappeared for the few hours of the ayahuasca trip. This experience suggests that ME/CFS is largely underpinned by aberrant brain chemistry rather than any major physical changes to the brain, since the effects that ayahuasca had on this patient's neurochemistry apparently cured his ME/CFS for a short period.

One thing that I might try is low dose psilocybin mushrooms — at a dose just below the threshold for a psychdelic trip. One interesting thing about psilocybin is that this substance has been shown to repair the brain damage caused by trauma, and in this way to treat PTSD.ᐞ

I have heard of permanent remission from DMT. Would love to try it.

 

[Hip]

I have heard of permanent remission from DMT. Would love to try it.

Just did a bit of Googling after you mentioned ME/CFS remissions from DMT (dimethyltryptamine), and found this account of someone who had ME/CFS for 6 years, but says he was cured after just one dose of DMT (but he only posted follow up comments for around a month). Could DMT have precipitated viral clearance in his body?

DMT seems to interact with a number of receptors: eight types of serotonin receptor, as well as the dopamine D1 receptor, the alpha 1 and 2 adrenergic receptors, the sigma-1 receptor, and others. Ref: here. I found this interesting paper, which said that higher peripheral serotonin levels are linked to better outcomes from antiviral treatment for hepatitis C virus. Might the activation of serotonin receptors by DMT have some kind of antiviral effect?

Note that DMT is the main psychedelic ingredient in ayahuasca, though ayahuasca also contains potent MAO inhibitors.

 

[Sparrowhawk]

So when I'm a state where I don't have enough energetic capital to invest in much, I remind myself that I am squirreling that energy away into a savings account by resting/managing the illness as best I can.

Roger that!

Thanks for all those experiences you have related. I agree that it is not just dependent on what mind you bring, but also the state of health (perhaps neurochemically/endocrine-wise) as to whether the body can sustain a spiritual experience.

 

[Hip]

Mr. Cat
Very nice post, Mr. Cat.
The gentle and subtle approaches to consciousness expanding — like breathwork — are probably more appropriate for ME/CFS patients. I keep meaning to restart doing chi gong, as this is very gentle and low energy, and chi gong / tai chi have been shown to have beneficial effects on the autonomic nervous system, which should be particularly useful in ME/CFS.

 

[Mr. Cat]

Roger that!

Thanks for all those experiences you have related. I agree that it is not just dependent on what mind you bring, but also the state of health (perhaps neurochemically/endocrine-wise) as to whether the body can sustain a spiritual experience.

Yes. I think that sometimes the body may not be healthy enough to sustain a spiritual experience. For researchers studying the physiological basis of spiritual experience (I assume there are some), it might be interesting to look at people experiencing brain fog. I think the "channels" - whether they are defined biochemically or energetically - that are blocked by brain fog may be the same ones through which many, if not all, types of spiritual experience flow.

 

[Arise]

Yes brain fog absolutely reduces brain fog. At times when the brain fog gets really bad you can lose all feelings both good and bad (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...as-a-me-symptom-anyone-else-who-has-it.14357/). It is a bit like when you get a flu or cold and you cannot taste or smell things as you normally would it is the same with brain fog. Your favorite music can become "noise" A book can become a collection of individual words. Feelings of empathy and compassion dwindle.

So as you can see suffering is not always beneficial for spiritual growth. Although from a philosophical point you could say that brain fog makes you live in the moment and appreciate everything a lot more.

 

[Lou]

Yes brain fog absolutely reduces brain fog. At times when the brain fog gets really bad you can lose all feelings both good and bad (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...as-a-me-symptom-anyone-else-who-has-it.14357/). It is a bit like when you get a flu or cold and you cannot taste or smell things as you normally would it is the same with brain fog. Your favorite music can become "noise" A book can become a collection of individual words. Feelings of empathy and compassion dwindle.

So as you can see suffering is not always beneficial for spiritual growth. Although from a philosophical point you could say that brain fog makes you live in the moment and appreciate everything a lot more.

Gotta love your first sentence, makes at least half your point. Completely reminds me of myself. Beyond that, you make a lot of good observations. Thanks.

 

[Wayne]

Gotta love your first sentence, makes at least half your point. Completely reminds me of myself. Beyond that, you make a lot of good observations. Thanks.

OMG, I had to read that first sentence THREE times before I could understand your point!

 

[Arise]

Gotta love your first sentence, makes at least half your point. Completely reminds me of myself. Beyond that, you make a lot of good observations. Thanks.

Lol. At least it gets the point across.

 

[Hip]

According to this article: Self-Transcendence as a Measurable Transpersonal Construct (by Albert Garcia-Romeu), it is the genetics of the serotonin 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A and 5-HT6 receptors, and the dopamine D4 receptors that correlate to an person's self-transcendence.

Self-transcendence is, in rough terms, a measure of an individual's spiritual disposition.

As discussed in this thread, I had strong spiritual traits prior to developing ME/CFS, but since getting this illness, my spiritual stance has all but disappeared; various people's comments in this thread suggests such disappearance is common in ME/CFS.


I am always looking to understand why this decline in spiritual disposition happens in ME/CFS, and the above-cited article on self-transcendence suggests an answer: since it is known that there are decreased 5-HT1A receptor numbers and receptor affinity in ME/CFS,† this could well explain why ME/CFS patients may experience a reduced spiritual outlook.

If this 5-HT1A receptor is an important mediator of the spiritual state, then it's dysfunction may well lead to a diminished spiritual disposition.

Some ME/CFS patients even have autoantibodies to the 5-HT1A receptor.†

And as an aside: some people have polymorphisms in the 5-HT1A receptor which affects the self-transcendence character trait; this may explain why some people are naturally more or less spiritual than others.†

The 5-HT1A receptor is activated by LSD, MDMA, psilocybin and DMT.

 

[ME_and_me]

okay, now this is a long long thread and I haven't read much.

I will simply put my experience.

I have always experienced things differently from the average and can honestly say spent long periods of my life only noticing energy. I used to think that there was such a thing as a 'spiritual sense', but after being very very ill and feeling like I was dying for two years in a row I got to the point where the question in of its self was pointless.

My experience at this point was that it did not matter what was perceived; there was a VERY clear feeling of it BEING perceived. this includes, good, bad, fogginess, clearness, light, dark, everything in between, and everything the mind is sure is different again, the mind itself, feelings. The lot.

there was nothing else. it was the bases of the apparent spiritual and mundane. by the way if anyone can prove to me the difference between these two I'd be interested because I cant see one.

how can magic not exist if you cannot prove anything is not it?

how can magic exist when the only unchanging is 'this'?

My experience though it did not or has not yet solidified(which also means nothing as that is also only apparently happening in the same place) is or was that there is no such thing as hindrance to any of 'this'. Only the perception of hindrance.
There is no such thing as perception either because it can always be seen.

Therefore the answer left has simply to be that fogginess is spiritual, and so is clearness. The apparent truth that 'we' cant seem to change them and frustration is occurring is also spiritual.

I noticed that if the mind accepts this truly then a version of what is considered a 'spiritual' sense recurs as if from nowhere anyway even at the same time as what was thought to be hindering it, and even though there is now apparently no need, simply because it is the nature of the minds interaction with difference(the world/non self/yin yang).

Intriguingly my experience is also that self is not noticeably manifest without its polar opposite apparent difference. in that case it is logical to conclude that no matter how the mind doesn't like accepting it, good is fundamentally linked to and necessary for bad to exist, and bad linked to and necessary for good to exist. These only arise because self exists, and self only seems to be perceived because of an apparent world of difference.

Idea of middle ground is just that. an idea, and is a possible part of the perception of self. but not self.

Self is none of these. it is the nothingness which is not even nothingness. it is the entire reason for spontaneous occurrence(stuff/life/world/movement/stillness/light/dark etc. etc.)

Self is even before self and before that again. ad infinitum.

To say 'I am the beginning and the end' explains everything, and it is literal.

That's not 'me' saying it. it is the reader, and it is always true.


just my experience.

 

[Zensational]

Indeed, every time I take a supplement that, as a "side effect", seems to boost my spiritual feelings, I make a note of it. So far, I have found the following supplements noticeably increase spiritual awareness: creatine monohydrate 4 grams, frankincense essential oil 5 drops, L-theanine 200 mg, reishi mushroom (though reishi takes a week or so to work), holy basil herb 3 grams, cat's claw 2000 mg, colloidal gold 10 drops. Creatine monohydrate, for some unknown reason, provides by far the most potent support for the spiritual sense, and it always works every time I try it. Frankincense, L-theanine and cat's claw are also reliable boosters of spiritual consciousness, I have found. The others are a little less reliable; I have experienced some powerful spiritual effects from holy basil and colloidal gold, but the experience is not always repeated when you take them again.

I am going to purchase the COLLODIAL GOLD, do you take it before bedtime?
I found a brand that is 200ppm on Amazon. I may also try the Frankincense. Most of the others I'm taking already.
No wonder the Three Wise Men took the baby Jesus the Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh.
So I wonder if the Myrrh would help.

 

[Hip]

I am going to purchase the COLLODIAL GOLD, do you take it before bedtime? I found a brand that is 200ppm on Amazon.

I am not sure, it has been a few years since I used colloidal gold. I have seen dosing recommendations that suggest taking colloidal gold 3 or 4 times a day.

I forgot about colloidal gold, but I still have much of my bottle left, so I might try it again today.


I have read that the effectiveness of colloidal products depends not so much on the ppm concentration, but rather on the total surface area of the gold or silver particles in solution. The higher the total surface area, the stronger the effects of a colloidal product.

Well, at least that is what they say on the Purest Colloids, Inc website, who sell a colloidal gold product called MesoGold which has a very high total particle surface area. But the idea that a high surface area is good is backed up by these guys.

Here is a comparison of the total particle surface areas for different colloidal silver products.

 

[Bansaw]

As a Christian, I certainly find it harder to focus in prayer with brain fog, but God has broken through to me on a few occasions without me really trying. When I was speaking in churches I had an extra energy and power that lasted just enough for the duration of the tour. Then I was back to feeling as I usually do afterwards.
Isaiah 40:31
But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
--this verse has been true for me as I am still in prayer and receive. But it takes discipline to spend that time.

 

[meandthecat]

Wow that's a lot of thread and a lot of shared experience.

I sort of wonder how much of my perception of how much I have been shaped by this disease is influenced by the extent that society has changed around me.

In the UK we are now in the grip of a neo-thatcherite revolution, like a bad echo from the past weilding it's ideological axe. An economic fundamentalism.

It seems to me that dogma is the antithesis of spirituality and it is hard to hold onto any hope that the world I thought I knew is not gone for good.

I became ill in the good times prior to 2008 and even then to hold a spiritual focus was going against the tide of materialism. Now its the savagery of dog eat dog.

Maybe ME is the disease of our time, like scrofula and leprosy were of theirs. Perhaps the destruction of the spiritual sense is a defining symptom.

I think I am losing it but I am not as depressed as I sound it's just challenging

 

[brenda]

As a Christian, I certainly find it harder to focus in prayer with brain fog, but God has broken through to me on a few occasions without me really trying. When I was speaking in churches I had an extra energy and power that lasted just enough for the duration of the tour. Then I was back to feeling as I usually do afterwards.
Isaiah 40:31
But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
--this verse has been true for me as I am still in prayer and receive. But it takes discipline to spend that time.

Hi!

I have had a breakthrough recently after a long time of feeling unable to get through the fog. My group prayed as I admitted feeling frustrated due to unanswered prayers for so long about health and alienation from family. Later I felt I was being asked 'what do you want me to do for you?' but could not decide whether to ask for my health or for my family but then, I knew that the thing I wanted most is to be restored back to being close to God. Things have changed drastically since chosing this first! The thick fog is gone and I can stay much longer in the 'spot' and assurance of the restoration are happening. I felt I had to pray the Psalms which is David really doing what I am doing and it has been so helpful.

I am away on retreat for a few days so please pray for me. Many I know will be very encouraged if this occurs and I receive the cleansing I am asking for. Thanks. Oh and two family members have been in touch as well!

 

[Hip]

I sort of wonder how much of my perception of how much I have been shaped by this disease is influenced by the extent that society has changed around me.

In the UK we are now in the grip of a neo-thatcherite revolution, like a bad echo from the past weilding it's ideological axe. An economic fundamentalism.

I know what you are saying, and the same thoughts occurred to me also (ie, than a non-spiritual environment may itself cause you to loose touch with your own spiritual spark).

I remember growing up and going to university in London in the Thatcher era. I don't want to comment on her politics, but I do remember quite distinctly that by the time I graduated from university in 1985 at the age of 21, the social fabric of London had changed quite palpably, just during my three years at university. The individualist culture had begun, and it seemed to me that the previous, consciously intertwined, collective nature of humanity had begun to fracture into an individualist "me, me, me" approach.

However, in spite of this backdrop (or perhaps because of it), in my mid 20s I started to develop an intense interest in all matters spiritual, and fortunately a large city like London provides numerous institutions where you explore spiritual areas like meditation, yoga, and so forth, and also meet people with a similar mindset.

I found I was quite able to maintain a spiritual disposition in spite of the backdrop. This is what makes me think that the significant loss of my spiritual sense that I noticed gradually occurred as I developed ME/CFS is more likely due to the disease than our present social backdrop. Though certainly our current spiritually desiccated backdrop does not help.