DNA Adduct and Mitochondrial (Studies) Testing

[Jenny]

Jenny
if you've got high intracellular calcium, the advice is to supplement magnesium because you need to make sure any new cells get the mag they need.
I think John McLaren Howard is still working on what to do about the calcium.. which is a problem.
My mother has this.. I did not get this test done.

Thanks for the suggestion aquarius - I've been on high dose Mg for five years or so (and also did Simplified Yasko for 2 years). but I've just got worse. But I know I need the Mg - if I don't take it I get a lot of muscle twitching.

Jenny

 

[richvank]

-> And the lack of magnesium leads to low cardiac output, as the magnesium deficiency results in diastolic dysfunction.



I'm working at the moment to improve my mitochondria and heart capacity, as recommended by the mentioned doctor in your post, but so far not seeing much results.
(I take D-Ribose, L-Acetyl Carnitine, Magnesium, B3, Reduced Glutathione, ATP from Solgar, etc.)

Your explanations make sense, and I would like to give the methylation cycle treatment a go, but not sure if I understood correctly.
(English is a foreign language for me.)

Is the treatment in the following link you recommend to increase the methylation capacity?
http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/richvank/treatment-glutathione-depletion-methylation-cycle-block-cfs.htm

Hi, Curry.

The article at the link you cited reported on the first few months of experience with the original protocol. The experience reported there is relevant to the current (revised) protocol as well.

The current (revised) protocol is found a little lower on the list at that site:

http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/richvank/revised-treatment-lifting-methylation-cycle-block-cfs.htm

Best regards,

Rich

 

[curry]

Thank you very much richvank. :Retro smile:

 

[carolwxyz99]

Would raising ATP improve the cal/mag ratio in the cells?

Anyone?

I'm in the UK and a patient of various private docs who do the mitochondrial tests. One of the docs reckons that it is treating phospholipid imbalances that is most important with the cal/mag ratio thingy they are now finding in the mito tests. I have not done the full fatty acid profile cos of cost but one test I did showed I am low in saturated fats. Also because of food intolerances and have not been eating dairy or eggs could have worsened my phospholipid status.

 

[carolwxyz99]

I'm looking for individuals who have had this test. The doc wants to test me. He says it's only available in Europe. Also, has anyone had treatment for this test?

I've googled "DNA Adduct and Mitochondrial Test." There are many articles although they are older.

Example:

http://www.pnas.org/content/85/17/6465.short

I would appreciate any input.

I have done the DNA adducts tests and the mito tests. Most of them were done a few years ago though in 2005 and 2006, so the tests may include a few more things now. I was in the first batch of people to do the mito tests. I found them very useful.

My DNA adducts were positive for lindane and nickel. I managed to get rid of lindane DNA adducts by FIR saunaing. With the nickel I had to add in chelation with l-methionine to get rid of them. I have subsequently gone down with breast cancer. But that was not really a big surprise as lindane and nickel are both estrogenic and carcinogenic and a test I did (vascular screening showing presence of heavy metals) indicated that I most likely had a lot of nickel built up in breast tissue. In fact the nickel appeared to be mainly in breast tissue rather than anywhere else. Because I had a slow growing estrogenic cancer, the cancer would have started before I did the DNA adduct test. I feel that if the DNA adduct test had been available earlier then maybe I could have avoided the cancer.

The mito tests were useful too. My conversion of ADP to ATP was only twentysomething %. Having a summary of my test results has been useful in my doc's letters to various organisations where I have to prove I'm ill. The mito tests also showed up nickel in the translocator test.

I also had a very low Manganese associated SODase. This did not get helped much by taking minerals. It did, however, shoot back up to well within the normal range once I had got rid of the nickel DNA adducts. It was thought that the nickel DNA adducts were affecting the Mn-SODase.

 

[BEG]

I have done the DNA adducts tests and the mito tests. Most of them were done a few years ago though in 2005 and 2006, so the tests may include a few more things now. I was in the first batch of people to do the mito tests. I found them very useful.

My DNA adducts were positive for lindane and nickel. I managed to get rid of lindane DNA adducts by FIR saunaing. With the nickel I had to add in chelation with l-methionine to get rid of them. I have subsequently gone down with breast cancer. But that was not really a big surprise as lindane and nickel are both estrogenic and carcinogenic and a test I did (vascular screening showing presence of heavy metals) indicated that I most likely had a lot of nickel built up in breast tissue. In fact the nickel appeared to be mainly in breast tissue rather than anywhere else. Because I had a slow growing estrogenic cancer, the cancer would have started before I did the DNA adduct test. I feel that if the DNA adduct test had been available earlier then maybe I could have avoided the cancer.

The mito tests were useful too. My conversion of ADP to ATP was only twentysomething %. Having a summary of my test results has been useful in my doc's letters to various organisations where I have to prove I'm ill. The mito tests also showed up nickel in the translocator test.

I also had a very low Manganese associated SODase. This did not get helped much by taking minerals. It did, however, shoot back up to well within the normal range once I had got rid of the nickel DNA adducts. It was thought that the nickel DNA adducts were affecting the Mn-SODase.

Thanks so much, Carol.

 

[aquariusgirl]

carol
I'm sorry to hear about the breast cancer. I hope that is in the past.
How long did it take to get rid of the nickel adducts?
This showed up on my tests too.
I haven't been retested.

I wonder if those phospholipid IVs a la Patricia Kane ..would help?

Seems like oral supplementation would be SLOOooow.

 

[BEG]

carol
I'm sorry to hear about the breast cancer. I hope that is in the past.
How long did it take to get rid of the nickel adducts?
This showed up on my tests too.
I haven't been retested.

I wonder if those phospholipid IVs a la Patricia Kane ..would help?

Hi aquariusgirl, My doctor would treat with the phospholipid IV's. Has anyone had them? Did they help?

 

[carolwxyz99]

carol
I'm sorry to hear about the breast cancer. I hope that is in the past.
How long did it take to get rid of the nickel adducts?
This showed up on my tests too.
I haven't been retested.

I wonder if those phospholipid IVs a la Patricia Kane ..would help?

Seems like oral supplementation would be SLOOooow.

The bc was over 2 years ago so the worst period has past fortunately. The actual breast lump I had started a couple of years or so before I did the DNA adduct test, but ultrasound and mammograms just showed it full of cysts and they never biopsied it. The NHS classes me as being in remission, but I am doing the Greek RGCC tests etc which do cancer cell counts and test chemicals and herbs against the cells invitro (this is at research status only -the positives have been useful but apparently it can give false negatives). Initially when the cell count was high I took i.v. vit C , quercetin orally and artesunate orally and injected i.m. and it came right down. I'm tending to take things which are useful for both the ME and bc. The i.v. vit C helped the ME and the artesunate gave me a herx so knocked something on the head. The count has gone up a bit recently, but not enough to lose sleep about. Artesunate and vit C do not test positive this time, but mistletoe and CV247 (aspirin with manganese and copper) do, so I am starting on those. Apparently the mistletoe may be useful for the ME/CFS. And I have been doing a few other things too like gone back on AHCC and started methyltetrahydrofolate as I have found I have an SNP affecting methylation. I attempted doing an oral vit C protocol with lipospherical vit C earlier, but gave up as it was thought my blood levels would not get high enough.

A doc I have seen in the UK has put me on Kane's phosphatidyl choline. Another doc I have seen suggests taking lecithin and coconut oil every day. The former does the i.v. phosopholipids too, but they are very expensive and I'd have to travel 60 miles each way and pay someone to take me so may not be practical. I'd also have to pay several hundred pounds to do the lipid tests first. But the other doc I did the RGCC tests with told me that she hasn't seen many people improve with the i.v. phospholipids and over here they are very expensive. So I am not giving them priority.

Regarding getting rid of the nickel, initially the DNA adducts rose very slightly before they came down. Apparently this often happens with heavy metals - i.e. the DNA adduct levels rise before they drop. I was initially tested in October 2005. I started sauaning at some point in the winter after I bought a box wooden chinese FIR sauna. I had 1-3 saunas a week as I could not tolerate more. I was tested again in August 2006 and the lindane had gone but not the nickel. I saw JMH and had a bioimpedance scan October 2006 showing up the type of nickel problem I had. Then I started doing an l-methionine chelation around November/December time. I was retested February/March 2007 and the nickel DNA adducts had gone. JMH also monitored my excretion of nickel in the urine and at the start of the chelation I was excreting a lot and after 6-8 weeks (can't remember exactly) the amount of nickel excreted went down. I think I was Dr M's first patient to do the l-methionine chelation and I have noticed that she now has an info sheet on it. It has changed slightly since I did it, but not much.

I have a friend who also had nickel DNA adducts and she managed to get rid of them by FIR saunaing alone. I found the l-methionine helped me so was worth doing anyway. I asked JMH if the l-methionine would chelate out any mercury and he said it probably would but it would depend on what form the mercury was in.

 

[aquariusgirl]

@brown eyed girl
I don't know anyone personally who has done them.
I believe patricia kane has been doing them for a long time in her clinic in PA.
Neil speight in NC probably does them too..
I think Gordon associates in santa rosa, CA, may do them too...

 

[aquariusgirl]

carol

I could not find any specific guidance about how much methionine to take to chelate nickel on dr m's site.

Is there a recommended dosage, or is it just as tolerated?

 

[curry]

Re: Mitochondrial Function Profile Test

I've been taking the supplements recommened by Dr Myhill to improve mitochondria function for the last two weeks, and I can feel some improvement, but it is still not a breakthrough.

So I assume I am on the right path, but still something maybe 'blocked', or I don't know. :worried:
As the supplements recommended to feed the mitochondria have a positive effect, I don't see a point to do the testing to confirm I have a deficiency. But the following is included in the test, and seems to be very interesting:

"The third possibility is that the protein which transports ATP and ADP across mitochondrial membrane is impaired and this is also measured."

Before I do the test and spend the GBP 300 - is there actually a treatment in case the test would show that the protein which transports ATP and ADP is impaired?

 

[richvank]

Re: Mitochondrial Function Profile Test

I've been taking the supplements recommened by Dr Myhill to improve mitochondria function for the last two weeks, and I can feel some improvement, but it is still not a breakthrough.

So I assume I am on the right path, but still something maybe 'blocked', or I don't know. :worried:
As the supplements recommended to feed the mitochondria have a positive effect, I don't see a point to do the testing to confirm I have a deficiency. But the following is included in the test, and seems to be very interesting:

"The third possibility is that the protein which transports ATP and ADP across mitochondrial membrane is impaired and this is also measured."

Before I do the test and spend the GBP 300 - is there actually a treatment in case the test would show that the protein which transports ATP and ADP is impaired?

Hi, curry.

In the test results that I have seen for this protein (called the ATP/ADP translocator protein) from Dr. McLaren Howard of AcumenLab, it is reported to be impaired by toxins binding to it.
In order to correct this, it is necessary to get the toxins out. Dr. Myhill has recommended use of FIR sauna for this, and some people have reported that subsequent testing showed that this did help.

In my opinion, the longer term solution to keeping the toxins out is to get glutathione back up to normal, and this requires lifting the methylation cycle block. When the methylation cycle is operating properly, there will also be normal production of L-carnitine, coenzyme Q-10, creatine, and phosphatidylcholine, all of which are needed by the mitochondria.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Nina]

carol

I could not find any specific guidance about how much methionine to take to chelate nickel on dr m's site.

Is there a recommended dosage, or is it just as tolerated?

The info you are looking for is here: http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Nickel_-_toxicity_and_detoxing

I am re-starting the regimen right now and hope it will help with the Nickel problems.

I have tried using the FIR sauna but my neuropathic symptoms get much worse with it so I had to stop. Was pretty bummed about that.

 

[carolwxyz99]

carol

I could not find any specific guidance about how much methionine to take to chelate nickel on dr m's site.

Is there a recommended dosage, or is it just as tolerated?

I have just looked and it is in the toxicity section on her website and not the fatigue section. Here it is.

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Nickel_-_toxicity_and_detoxing

When I spoke to JMH about the nickel, he said that I did not have to ingest high levels of nickel to get nickel toxicity. He said that if I was allergic to nickel then I could end up becoming allergic to the nickel as it was being detoxified i.e. I would be kicking the nickel off the conjugates during detoxification and so nickel would just accumulate in my body instead of leaving it.

When I first went down with ME/CFS my ears started puffing up a bit with some of my earrings, so this could well have been nickel allergy and I had to stop wearing earrings. I had been fine wearing earrings before getting ME/CFS so I would guess it was the ME triggering the nickel allergy.

Another thing. JMH told me there were 3 different ways in which nickel can build up in the body, which is why I did the bioimpedence scan.

1. A build up in estrogenic tissue (as in my case)

2. A build up in the liver (my bioimpedence scan showed possible traces in the liver)

3. A different mechanism where it builds up in cells throughout body - maybe fat cells - I can't remember exactly.

He told me that the l-methionine chelation was suitable for nickel that is built up in estrogenic tissue. I don't know what the treatment is for the other types. But the fact that Dr M and AW in the UK are both suggesting l-methionine suggests that the no 1 is most common. I also know that some other heavy metals can be chelated with l-methionine. I had a friend with antimony DNA adducts or shown up in translocator test and l-methionine was used for that too.

I felt a bit fluey for the first week or so on the l-methionine, but after that felt a bit better.

 

[carolwxyz99]

Hi curry,

I was helped a bit by the mito supplements - the CoQ10and l-carnitine, - it was significant but I would not say it was dramatic. I could not tolerate the d-ribose. The other test on the protein transport of ATP is the translocator test and that was very useful because it will show up toxins that are affecting mitochondrial function. In my case I had nickel blocking the receptor site.

Cheers,
Carol

 

[Jenny]

I've tried several types and doses of CoQ10, L-carnitine and d-ribose over several years. None have helped in the slightest.

I'm afraid I'm rather sceptical of Dr Myhill's thoughts on ME and her advice.

Jenny

 

[curry]

In the test results that I have seen for this protein (called the ATP/ADP translocator protein) from Dr. McLaren Howard of AcumenLab, it is reported to be impaired by toxins binding to it.

The other test on the protein transport of ATP is the translocator test and that was very useful because it will show up toxins that are affecting mitochondrial function. In my case I had nickel blocking the receptor site.

In my opinion, the longer term solution to keeping the toxins out is to get glutathione back up to normal, and this requires lifting the methylation cycle block. When the methylation cycle is operating properly, there will also be normal production of L-carnitine, coenzyme Q-10, creatine, and phosphatidylcholine, all of which are needed by the mitochondria.

Yes, the 'methylation cycle treatment' will be the next step in my therapy.

Thank you very much Richard and Carol for this information.

Have a nice weekend. :Retro smile: