DNA Adduct and Mitochondrial (Studies) Testing

BEG

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I'm looking for individuals who have had this test. The doc wants to test me. He says it's only available in Europe. Also, has anyone had treatment for this test?

I've googled "DNA Adduct and Mitochondrial Test." There are many articles although they are older.

Example:

http://www.pnas.org/content/85/17/6465.short

I would appreciate any input.
 

aquariusgirl

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If your'e talking about the Acumen tests. Yes, I had them. I posted my results in the files section of the CFS_yasko yahoo group, in the folder marked Louella's test results.

Rich Van K commented on my results. Not sure if I put that in the folder. Think so. Or check the archives of the group if you're interested.

Just check the date of the results and check the weeks after that for posts from Rich.

Others in that group ran the same tests and posted about their results ...so u cld just do a search under Acumen, or mito tests or sthg.

HTH
 

BEG

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Ok, just checked yr link.

Think you may be talking about different tests. Can you link to the tests or the lab?
I don't know the lab or anything about the test. That's why I'm asking. The doctor says the test is available in Europe. The link is to an article that came up when I googled "DNA Adduct and Mitochondrial Test." There are more articles, too.

My knowledge about this is very limited. Looking for help.

Thanks.
 

justy

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Hi, i had the mito testing profile done at Acumen labs also. I am not sure what you want to know about it. I didnt understand the link you put in - i think this is the same test. A bit confused really, can you clarify? i am happy to talk to you about my test results etc.
 

BEG

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Hi justy,

Was the mito testing profile helpful to you?

Did you have the DNA Adduct part of the test? After googling it, that appears to have something to do with cancer.

Where is Acumen labs? The test and shipping cost quite a bit of $$$ here. Don't know yet whether I will do it. I want to get some opinions.

Did you need treatment? What was it?

This doctor infuses with phospholioid lipids. Or could that be the same as "phospholipids"?

I am trying to gain knowledge from others who have had this test in order to help me make an informed decision. Thanks!!
 

BEG

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Thanks so much. This is making sense now. I became sick after working in a very toxic workplace, called a "superfund" site here, probably because it takes a lot of money to clean it up. We had 2 underground scrubbers that were leaking and a water treatment plant that was completely rebuilt. Supposedly it was cleaned up to state specifications and has been turned into condominiums that were sold to people who now live there. Scary thought.
 

Jenny

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I had this test done through the Breakspear Hospital in the UK. Blood was sent to Acumen, which is run by the founders of Biolab. It looks at mitochondria function, DNA adducts and red cell superoxide dismutase.

My main results were:

Low EC-SOD enzyme activity

32% blocking of active sites learing to poor ADP-ATP reconversion

Poor ATP related Mg

Low mitochondria (mt) and poor provison of new mt-ATP. Somewhat restricted access to mt ATP secondary to the 3/10 blocking of translocator sites.

High intracellular Ca

Partly GSH-conjugated dye or dye precursor (prob in hair dye). Diamino or Diazo compound DNA adduct

Strontium DNA adduct - may reflect increase in bone turnover

High cell-free DNA - mild increase in cell degradation

Low-normal % of cardiolipin.

DNA adduct is reducing the efficacy of the cytochrome C-CL gating complex and that has effects on the proton gradients and electron transport

This was all very interesting but my doctor never managed to explain to me what they meant beyond the fact that the results were consistent with either a Lyme or a ME diagnosis. He couldn't recommend any treatment. So all rather a waste of quite a lot of money.

Jenny
 

BEG

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I had this test done through the Breakspear Hospital in the UK. Blood was sent to Acumen, which is run by the founders of Biolab. It looks as mitochondria function, DNA adducts and red cell superoxide dismutase.

My main results were:

Low EC-SOD enzyme activity

32% blocking of active sites learing to poor ADP-ATP reconversion

Poor ATP related Mg

Low mitochondria (mt) and poor provison of new mt-ATP. Somewhat restricted access to mt ATP secondary to the 3/10 blocking of translocator sites.

High intracellular Ca

Partly GSH-conjugated dye or dye precursor (prob in hair dye). Diamino or Diazo compound DNA adduct

Strontium DNA adduct - may reflect increase in bone turnover

High cell-free DNA - mild increase in cell degradation

Low-normal % of cardiolipin.

DNA adduct is reducing the efficacy of the cytochrome C-CL gating complex and that has effects on the proton gradients and electron transport

This was all very interesting but my doctor never managed to explain to me what they meant beyond the fact that the results were consistent with either a Lyme or a ME diagnosis. He couldn't recommend any treatment. So all rather a waste of quite a lot of money.

Jenny
Jenny, thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
 

liverock

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The DNA adducts test measures the amount of dead cells floating around in the bloodstream due to CFS caused oxidation or inflammation. High levels are also found in such diseases as cancer and stroke.

I had the test done by Dr Myhill/Acumen Lab after a crash. It came back that I had a level just below someone on chemo(which kills a lot of cells of course). There is no specific treatment its just an indicator of the severity of the disease at that moment.

Its the other tests run by Acumen which show how good your cellular defences are, such as SOD, GPX and Glutathione and how well the cells are producing ATP that are more important IMO.

Dr Myhill does a letter interpreting the results and treatment suggestions. Last I heard she was snowed under with tests and only accepting UK applications for tests.
 

Jenny

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The DNA adducts test measures the amount of dead cells floating around in the bloodstream due to CFS caused oxidation or inflammation. High levels are also found in such diseases as cancer and stroke.
I believe the DNA adducts test measures the presence of organic chemicals and toxic metals and the genes that they are located on. The cell-free DNA test is the one that measures cell degradation in blood plasma.

Jenny
 

liverock

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Jenny ,

Your right! Brain fog moment again there.:Retro redface:

I didnt have the DNA Adducts test.

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/DNA_adducts

DNA ADDUCTS TEST

DESCRIPTION
This test measures chemicals that have stuck on to DNA. I now use this test regularly for patients who have either been exposed to chemicals, or who have developed cancer. Almost invariably I find toxic chemicals with the most common being lindane, nickel, PBBs (used as fire retardants) and other heavy metals. It is possible to get rid of these toxins, either by using high doses of the beneficial minerals, or by using chelation therapy, or by doing sweating detox regimes, or a combination of these factors.
 

aquariusgirl

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Jenny
if you've got high intracellular calcium, the advice is to supplement magnesium because you need to make sure any new cells get the mag they need.
I think John McLaren Howard is still working on what to do about the calcium.. which is a problem.
My mother has this.. I did not get this test done.
 

richvank

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Hi, all.

For what it's worth, quite a few PWCs have sent me their results from these tests. I find them interesting. They document in detail that there is mito dysfunction in ME/CFS. There are a few differences in detail from one PWC to another, such as which toxins are present, but generally they all show the same types of problems, if the person has ME/CFS.

In my opinion, the mito dysfunction in ME/CFS originates from glutathione depletion and a partial block in the methylation cycle.
The glutathione depletion allows oxidative stress to build up in the mitochondria, and it also allows buildup of toxins. The oxidative stress and the toxins interfere with the production of ATP, which is the main product of the mitochondria. Low ATP affects the energy supply to the membrane ion pumps, and that allows calcium to rise and magnesium to drop.

The partial methylation cycle block decreases the rate of production of carnitine and coenzyme Q10, both of which are needed by the mitochondria. Creatine production also requires methylation, and creatine is used to transport, store and exchange energetic phosphate groups supplied by ATP. Methylation is also required to convert phosphatidyl ethanolamine to phosphatidyl choline, and the proper amounts of each are needed for the inner mito membrane. All of these are found to be deficient in ME/CFS. I think that low methylation capacity is the reason.

So in my view, if you want to help the mitochondria, you must deal with the partial methylation cycle block, which in turn will allow glutathione to come up.

I think that doing what Dr. Myhill suggests to remove toxins can be helpful as well, and supplying her package of mito support nutrients (magnesium, B vitamins, carnitine, CoQ10 and ribose) can also be helpful. But it's also necessary to get at the root of the problem in order to restore the mito function, and that's where the methylation cycle treatment comes in.

I don't think that Dr. Myhill and Dr. McLaren Howard have bought into my explanation for the origin of the mito dysfunction in ME/CFS, but they do measure red blood cell total glutathione. This does not reflect intracellular glutathione levels in the tissues very well, but nevertheless, they often do find low RBC total glutathione. When it goes low in the RBCs, it is likely very low in the tissue cells, because the RBCs are normally net producers and exporters of glutathione. When they are low, everybody is low!

I also note that Dr. Myhill does use something similar to the methylation protocol I have suggested in some of her patients. I just don't think that she makes a direct connection between the methylation cycle problem and the mito dysfunction, but in my opinion, they are very much linked together in a cause and effect relationship.

Best regards,

Rich
 

richvank

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WOuld raising ATP improve the cal/mag ratio in the cells?

Anyone?
Hi, AQ.

Yes, I think it would. However, just taking ATP as a supplement is not likely to raise ATP in the mitochondria significantly. ATP turns over very rapidly in the body. Unless the mitochondria are working well, I don't think ATP levels can be maintained near normal.

Rich
 

curry

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In my opinion, the mito dysfunction in ME/CFS originates from glutathione depletion and a partial block in the methylation cycle.
The glutathione depletion allows oxidative stress to build up in the mitochondria, and it also allows buildup of toxins. The oxidative stress and the toxins interfere with the production of ATP, which is the main product of the mitochondria. Low ATP affects the energy supply to the membrane ion pumps, and that allows calcium to rise and magnesium to drop.

The partial methylation cycle block decreases the rate of production of carnitine and coenzyme Q10, both of which are needed by the mitochondria. Creatine production also requires methylation, and creatine is used to transport, store and exchange energetic phosphate groups supplied by ATP. Methylation is also required to convert phosphatidyl ethanolamine to phosphatidyl choline, and the proper amounts of each are needed for the inner mito membrane. All of these are found to be deficient in ME/CFS. I think that low methylation capacity is the reason.

So in my view, if you want to help the mitochondria, you must deal with the partial methylation cycle block, which in turn will allow glutathione to come up.

I think that doing what Dr. Myhill suggests to remove toxins can be helpful as well, and supplying her package of mito support nutrients (magnesium, B vitamins, carnitine, CoQ10 and ribose) can also be helpful. But it's also necessary to get at the root of the problem in order to restore the mito function, and that's where the methylation cycle treatment comes in.
...
I also note that Dr. Myhill does use something similar to the methylation protocol I have suggested in some of her patients. I just don't think that she makes a direct connection between the methylation cycle problem and the mito dysfunction, but in my opinion, they are very much linked together in a cause and effect relationship.


-> And the lack of magnesium leads to low cardiac output, as the magnesium deficiency results in diastolic dysfunction.



I'm working at the moment to improve my mitochondria and heart capacity, as recommended by the mentioned doctor in your post, but so far not seeing much results.
(I take D-Ribose, L-Acetyl Carnitine, Magnesium, B3, Reduced Glutathione, ATP from Solgar, etc.)

Your explanations make sense, and I would like to give the methylation cycle treatment a go, but not sure if I understood correctly. :ashamed:
(English is a foreign language for me.)

Is the treatment in the following link you recommend to increase the methylation capacity?
http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/richvank/treatment-glutathione-depletion-methylation-cycle-block-cfs.htm