DL/L-Methionine Chelation

[Tigger]

Hi,

Has anyone had any success with chelation using DL or L-Methionine especially in a manner similar to the schedule used for ALA for Cutler? I used to take L-Methionine to control histamine. I've been taking it alongside my ALA rounds for a couple weeks now but it makes me dramatically flat, tired, unmotivated and depressed (overmethylated? - if that's even a thing - different can of worms).

I'm mainly asking because of this interesting article as I do have issues with lead. I'm assuming it could help with others too including copper:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2514724

@caledonia
@stridor
@Eastman

 

[NotThisGuy]

I also have Pb issues and took methionine for about 2 months (not regulary).
Wondering if this is what made me so much worse? (i know freddd opinion about methionine).

Methionine helped a lot with my food intolerances, that became severe after Pb exposure.

I can't take it anymore since it seems to lower cortisol and i instantly get troubles breathing that only goes away after taking some HC.
Maybe thats why you feel tired,flat and unmotivated.

 

[Eastman]

The beneficial effects of methionine was attributed to its ability to increase the bioavailability of glutathione. I would think that supplementing with N-acetylcysteine would provide a more direct benefit.

The administration of N-acetylcysteine reduces oxidative stress and regulates glutathione metabolism in the blood cells of workers exposed to lead.

 

[Tigger]

@NotThisGuy Interesting as I've had similar experiences. Do you still take it? If so, how much and how often? Even after taking it daily on an empty stomach in 500 mg doses multiple times throughout the day, I never really improved much in the way of negative side effects.

@Eastman Thanks! So Methionine itself isn't necessarily the driving force behind the chelation but actually its ability to increase the bioavailability of glutathione?

 

[Eastman]

@Eastman Thanks! So Methionine itself isn't necessarily the driving force behind the chelation but actually its ability to increase the bioavailability of glutathione?

I'm not sure. I was just quoting the report you linked to.

 

[Tigger]

@Eastman

Ahhh gotcha: "The beneficial effects of methionine may be attributed to its ability to increase the bioavailability of glutathione (GSH)..." Thanks.

Do you know if NAC should be dosed similarly to Cutler's approach with ALA or could it be taken once or twice a day?

 

[Learner1]

Ideally, you want to support the entire methylation system to produce glutathione. Folate, B12, B2, B3, B6, magnesium, potassium, etc.

Most people don't need methionine alone. One typically would only take it if homocysteine is too low to recycle back into methionine.

You can shortcut the process and just take liposomal glutathione, but its expensive and doesn't hang around long. You ecan go one step back and take NAC, but you need to also have sufficient glycine and glutamine to make glutathione.

Then you'd want to support the transsulfuration pathway with B1, taurine, and molybdenum, and ensure you drink enough water and have plenty of fiber in your diet, or consider a binder, to ensure its not reabsorbed instead of getting out of you.

And you'll want to be using a chelator like DMPS or DMSA. PolyMVA will pull it out iof your mitochondria which the other chelators won't - heavy metals can clog up your mitochondrial membranes, reducing ATP production.

 

[Tigger]

Thank you. I have trouble tolerating any multi with all the right forms of the nutrients I need. I'm taking a multi every three days now alongside mb12, ab12, LCF, mfolate and ALA everyday. One capsule every three days is about all I can handle right now.

 

[Learner1]

You may need to increase B6, as P5P, and B2 to give you enough cofactors.

 

[caledonia]

I was taking some methionine in the Holistic Health All in One multi I was taking, but there were so many other ingredients, and I was taking such a small amount of it, only two days a week, I doubt if it did much.

I'm planning on doing DMSA for lead once I get to a certain level with ALA.

 

[Tigger]

@Learner1 P5P and B2/R5P make me feel wonderful in a variety of ways but then cause me to become wildly overstimulated and panicky. This is after trying at very low doses too.

@caledonia Gotcha. Have you made any headway with ALA?

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1 P5P and B2/R5P make me feel wonderful in a variety of ways but then cause me to become wildly overstimulated and panicky. This is after trying at very low doses too.

Its about balance. It really helps to do a NutrEval test and to know what your SNPs are and amount of toxicity.

There are a lot of weird and interesting things that can happen. Its definitely not about saying one nutrient is bad or good - they all work together.

B6 and B2 are used in multiple steps, and if you add them, you could be kickstarting something that wasn't working before.

You must also have Phase III detox working properly, or you begin mobilizing stuff you can't get rid of, and you will have unpleasant symptoms...

 

[NotThisGuy]

Its about balance. It really helps to do a NutrEval test and to know what your SNPs are and amount of toxicity.

There are a lot of weird and interesting things that can happen. Its definitely not about saying one nutrient is bad or good - they all work together.

B6 and B2 are used in multiple steps, and if you add them, you could be kickstarting something that wasn't working before.

You must also have Phase III detox working properly, or you begin mobilizing stuff you can't get rid of, and you will have unpleasant symptoms...

I have read a lot about supporting Phase I and Phase II.
But which supplements support Phase III ?

 

[Learner1]

Water, water soluble fiber in your diet, curcumin, and binders which help you get rid of toxins without having them be reabsorbed into your bloodstream and redeposited.

Here's a detailed explanation:

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/blog-post/what-phase-iii-detoxification

Quicksilver, based in Colorado has a universal binder - most binders only bind specific substances so you'd need a cimbinstion to bind all the toxins.

 

[stridor]

I think that the point is being missed. It isn't about chelating "more". It is about chelating safely and as comfortably as possible. Otherwise, a person could just take more ALA, DMSA or whatever.

I think that taking ALA according to the Cutler Protocol is about as good as it gets. Pulls mercury out of the brain and helps to keep glutathione in a (chemically) reduced state. ALA increases fecal output 12x and while I did not read the methionine study, I doubt that it exceeded this.

 

[Learner1]

There is good merit to the Cutler protocol if you are doing it on your own, without medical supervision. However, there's more than one way to chelate safely, and good reason for doing it expeditiously.

I had significant arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury toxicity and already had gotten rid of the mercury over 3 years when I was diagnosed with stage 3 cancer. My family has lousy detoxification genes - my parents have had lymphoma, leukemia, and Parkinson's and one of my two children developed significant arsenic poisoning in one year at college, traced to eating conventionally grown chicken.

It has taken significant effort, using oral and IV EDTA, DMSA, DMPS, and PolyMVA (an alpha lipoic acid polymer) plus significant IV and oral nutrient support over 6 years to reduce this toxic burden, along with the platinum added by chemotherapy.

I would be dead if I'd relied on Cutler's protocol - its just too slow.

Chelation can be done safely by knowledgeable practitioners. It is impossible to know how toxic you are, but you can get an idea of what toxins you have, and if your family has a history of toxic diseases, or if you have low platelet counts, high blood pressure, low energy, rashes, and other symptoms of toxicity, its likely your toxic burden is higher than most.

Here is a picture of arsenic in mitochondria...its the black stuff in the 2 images. It impairs ATP production causing fatigue...and cancer...worth getting rid of...

 

[caledonia]

@Learner1 P5P and B2/R5P make me feel wonderful in a variety of ways but then cause me to become wildly overstimulated and panicky. This is after trying at very low doses too.

@caledonia Gotcha. Have you made any headway with ALA?

I started with 1mg of ALA and gradually worked up to 5mg by 0.5mg increments.

I've done one round with 5mg ALA. I need to do several more rounds with that amount before progressing to DMSA.

 

[Learner1]

This paper has a pretty good overview of chelators and chelating agents:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3654245/#!po=0.396825

It alludes to, but doesn't go into detail on the nutrient support for moving the mobilized toxins out of the body.

 

[Tigger]

@Learner1 Wow! What a story and set of genes you must have. Makes me feel quite lucky. Is IV chelation safe and faster to your knowledge?

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1 Wow! What a story and set of genes you must have. Makes me feel quite lucky. Is IV chelation safe and faster to your knowledge?

We all have to play the hand we're dealt...

Yes, IV chelation is much faster.

As for safety, it should be done with nutrient support to support fully ridding the body of what is mobilized and to replenish good minerals, and obviously with a doctor who knows what he or she is doing, and who monitors nutrient status, kidney and liver function.