Difficulties with fingerprints anyone?

[panckage]

I believe that this can be a symptom of
Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS)

 

[frozenborderline]

My theory is that fingerprint changes in ME/CFS is likely caused by elevated connective tissue-degrading enzymes, such as neutrophil elastase, and matrix metalloproteinase (MMP) enzymes such as MMP-9.

MMP-9 is known to be elevated in coxsackievirus B infections.

I had a significant skin changes after catching the suspected Coxsackie B4 virus that I think triggered by ME/CFS, most notably a fine crêpe paper-like wrinkling, especially on the tops of my hands (pictures of the virally-induced skin wrinkles on my hands can bee seen at the bottom of this webpage of my website).

My skin wrinkles are not normal skin aging, because these wrinkles appeared rapidly within the first year or of catching my virus (agin happens more slowly over decades). The same skin wrinkles also appeared on many other people who caught my virus. In older people (60 or over) who caught my virus, the skin changes were body-wide, and my virus rapidly caused an overall sagging of the skin (much like the sagging skin pictures on the above webpage), as well as fine crêpe paper-like wrinkling.


Sagging skin and fine crêpe paper-like wrinkling are symptoms found in the dermatological condition called mid-dermal elastolysis (MDE), a disease where the MMP-9 destroys the elastin in the skin, causing these symptoms.

The skin changes caused by my virus look very much like MDE, although at present MDE has not been linked to any infectious causes (but I suspect that enteroviruses such as coxsackievirus B or echovirus could well be the cause of MDE).


MMP-9 also plays a role in receding gums (periodontal disease), which is another symptom my Coxsackie virus also rapidly induced in me, and in others who caught it.

One standard medical treatment for periodontitis is low dose doxycycline (20 mg daily), because doxycycline is an MMP-9 inhibitor. Another potent MMP-9 inhibitor is the Indian herbal formula triphala. Ref: 1

MMP-9 could be playing a role in the cognitive symptoms of ME/CFS, because firstly MMP-9 is neurotoxic, and secondly because MMP-9 regulates the NMDA receptor. Ref: 1

Dr Richie Shoemaker used to test for elevated MMP-9 in his patients.

Did you know mmp-9 is also elevated in multiple sclerosis ? I wonder if it is related to breaking down white matter /myelin, or is just non causal marker of inflammation

www.nature.com/articles/ncpneuro0231

 

[frozenborderline]

Did you know mmp-9 is also elevated in multiple sclerosis ? I wonder if it is related to breaking down white matter /myelin, or is just non causal marker of inflammation

www.nature.com/articles/ncpneuro0231

Additionally high mmp-9 is associated with lots of lasting sequelae in lungs and air hunger in long Covid patients
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-02547-x

 

[Hip]

Did you know mmp-9 is also elevated in multiple sclerosis ? I wonder if it is related to breaking down white matter /myelin, or is just non causal marker of inflammation

I am not sure, but I believe MMPs can be neurotoxic.

In the light of Dr Markov finding bacterial dysbiosis in the nasopharynx linked to ME/CFS, I questioned (in this thread) whether MMPs released by bacteria in the nasopharynx (or secreted in the nasopharynx by the immune system in its fight against these bacteria) could explain why ME/CFS patients get craniocervical instability.

The nasopharynx is located right next to the CCI area.

 

[Jadzhia]

I recently got a new laptop with fingerprint recognition. I couldn't get it to set up at all. This thread explains why that might be! Unless it's just advancing age, I'm in my mid-60s. Off to read the Fingerprints thread!

 

[Learner1]

I have trouble with fingerprints too. Can't unlock my phone or iPad. My fingerprints can be taken with great difficulty - I got a 10 minute hand massage by the TSA guy when I signed up for TSA PreCheck, nicest they've ever been to me!

Not much to read on the other thread other than a lot of us have the same problem. I don't have EDS or high MMP9, but the oxidative stress theory makes sense.

 

[Wishful]

https://newatlas.com/biology/water-fingertips/

Not about the fingerprint ridges, but rather the wrinkles that form when soaked.

"When your hands and feet come into contact with water for more than a few minutes, the sweat ducts in your skin open, allowing water to flow into the skin tissue," he wrote. "This added water decreases the proportion of salt inside the skin. Nerve fibers send a message about lower salt levels to your brain, and the autonomic nervous system responds by constricting the blood vessels."

“We’ve heard that wrinkles don’t form in people who have median nerve damage in their fingers,” German said. “One of my students told us, ‘I’ve got median nerve damage in my fingers.’ So we tested him – no wrinkles.”

 

[stellaluna]

I have an iPad that used Touch ID and I can’t get into it without manually inputting my passcode lol. My right thumb is particularly bad. I think it’s a combination of internal and external irritants (i.e., contact dermatitis from soap/cleaning products/handling acidic food and atopic dermatitis or a similar process). There was some improvement after getting dish gloves but it still persists. Definitely not directly related to ME in my case as my mother deals with the same issue but doesn’t have ME. I do suspect that it might reflect a hereditary underlying vulnerability though

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I have an iPad that used Touch ID and I can’t get into it without manually inputting my passcode lol.

I have that.

Its the ME in my case.

The fat pads at the fingertips have broken down. When I type, they go flat
Huge deep wrinkles. (entirely missing when I get up in the morning, my fingers are a tad puffy/swollen)

The fingerprint lines seem faintly visible there, underneath the collapsed wrinkles.

I have forgotten what happens when I soak them. I think they don't respond correctly.

OMG try walking barefoot across the tile floor, with the fat pads collapsed. Scream.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Did he take you out for dinner afterward?

I was puzzled by this remark, also.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

could explain why ME/CFS patients get craniocervical instability.

My throat in many ways was at the center of my illness. I still get the sore throat if I over do anything. And the throat is certainly anatomical nearby The Cervical Spine etc.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Even when I was mild I had trouble with fingerprints. I had to be fingerprinted once and the computer rejected mine over and over. Each finger took 3 or 4 or 5 tries...after several fingers the lady taking them basically gave up and forced the computer to accept the rest.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Each finger took 3 or 4 or 5 tries...after several fingers the lady taking them basically gave up and forced the computer to accept the rest.

I bet you the "normal world" doesn't realize how many people have issues which precluded finger prints working.

I don't want to be trapped somewhere. Like on the Customs floor of LAX.

I did have to provide my fingerprints to Official Parties recently. I wonder why they did not notice the problem with all this?