Differences between HIV/AIDS symptoms and CFS symptoms

[Johannawj]

They are trying Raltegravir for MS....and I think something against HERV for lupus....

Raltegravir (Isentress) Pilot Study in Relapsing Multiple Sclerosis (INSPIRE)
This study has been completed.
No study results posted
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT01767701?term=Raltegravir+MS&rank=2


Gavin Giovannoni write about HERV and human autoimmune diseases and a study from Denmark.
Are human endogenous retroviruses triggers of autoimmune diseases? Unveiling associations of three diseases and viral loci.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/hervs-and-human-autoimmune-diseases.38312/


Gavin Giovannoni one of the Principal Investigator in the Raltegravir study
posted this on this MS blogg 15 april -16

off-label rituximab to treat MS and autoimmunity

http://multiple-sclerosis-research.blogspot.com/2016/04/researchspeak-offlabel-off-label.html?m=1

 

[Daffodil]

i keep having thoughts again that we have a retrovirus. it is why i cannot get well no matter what i do and how long i do it.

 

[sorin]

i keep having thoughts again that we have a retrovirus. it is why i cannot get well no matter what i do and how long i do it.

This is my impression too. And I think that anti-retroviral drugs should be tried (of course with caution). The problem is that the majority of CFS patients are not getting prescriptions for these. Another thing I have serious doubts is this idea of HERV that may distract the attention from the real laboratory-made retroviruses. When man tried to find solution for one disease/virus, the same man, by mistake, created a new one (it is like what happens often in software development, when developers fix one bug they introduce several new ones). Obviously there are some people interested to hide some things and put them under the carpet. If the truth would appear at the surface they could be accused at least for manslaughter.

 

[lansbergen]

I think ERV are involved with the infection I suspect but I am not convinced that is a bad thing.

 

[Daffodil]

@sorin I keep going over the night I got this. I kissed someone who was sick. we both had just brushed our teeth too. there could have been microscopic blood exchange aside from saliva. and the main factor: he was very promiscuous. i thought intercourse and oral were the only dangers. how ignorant I was. thought I knew it all at 22.. sorry I keep telling this story like a broken record lol

anyway....the bad flu 2 weeks later.....the various infections that activate.....the gut permeability issues......every single thing fits.

but with todays advanced technology, surely they would find a new exogenous retrovirus if it were there?

how can we ignore that there are people out there - I have spoken to them personally - who got well and stayed well on antiretrovirals. what does this mean??

my doc says they could be acting on HERV.....but this seems a little too convenient an explanation.

one woman posted on a website that AZT kept her well and she had been ill 12 years. if AZT was acting on HERV, then what about all the downstream affects she would have had over the course of 12 years...all the coinfections that remained untreated, like we have?

I took antiretrovirals for a few years. they only helped a little....and I thought it might be because I had been sick so long I had other infections....but when people with HIV get sick after a long time with HIV, they must have tons of activated chronic infections all over the body...yet antiretrovirals + possible other antimicrobials fixes them up in a few weeks, right??

@Lans...why would ERV be a good thing?

 

[lansbergen]

@Lans...why would ERV be a good thing?

As I understand it, it is involved in the immune response.

 

[JES]

@sorin
how can we ignore that there are people out there - I have spoken to them personally - who got well and stayed well on antiretrovirals. what does this mean??

People have got well and achieved remission from CFS/ME using all sorts of antivirals, not just antiretrovirals. Valtrex and valcyte have resulted in a subset of people recover, as has equilibrant. I read somewhere that Dr. Montoya, who has had many patients on valtrex/valcyte, thinks the reason these antivirals sometimes work for CFS/ME is probably not because of the antiviral effect, but rather due to some secondary effect of these antiviral compounds, perhaps on mitochondria.

 

[sorin]

People have got well and achieved remission from CFS/ME using all sorts of antivirals, not just antiretrovirals. Valtrex and valcyte have resulted in a subset of people recover, as has equilibrant. I read somewhere that Dr. Montoya, who has had many patients on valtrex/valcyte, thinks the reason these antivirals sometimes work for CFS/ME is probably not because of the antiviral effect, but rather due to some secondary effect of these antiviral compounds, perhaps on mitochondria.

How long did take the Valtrex the people who recovered? 2 years? I started taking Valtrex 4 months ago and still not seeing significant improvements (just to be optimistic and not say that there is no improvement)...

 

[sorin]

@sorin I keep going over the night I got this. I kissed someone who was sick. we both had just brushed our teeth too. there could have been microscopic blood exchange aside from saliva. and the main factor: he was very promiscuous. i thought intercourse and oral were the only dangers. how ignorant I was. thought I knew it all at 22.. sorry I keep telling this story like a broken record lol

anyway....the bad flu 2 weeks later.....the various infections that activate.....the gut permeability issues......every single thing fits.

but with todays advanced technology, surely they would find a new exogenous retrovirus if it were there?

Well, the "official propaganda of medicine" told a big lie in the last dozens of years - that if HIV danger is only for intercourse without condom and oral sex. That is a big lie which cost people lives. I think there are many other ways of getting HIV or HIV like viruses (including saliva, breast milk, etc). It is possible that what we got to have milder effects than regular HIV because either it is a relative of HIV either it remained somehow latent in our body.

 

[sorin]

but when people with HIV get sick after a long time with HIV, they must have tons of activated chronic infections all over the body...yet antiretrovirals + possible other antimicrobials fixes them up in a few weeks, right??

I do not know about this, only a HIV positive person who experienced the situation you described can give this answer. But I still have the impression that we should be seen by doctors who treat HIV. Unfortunately they do not take us seriously because we have the HIV negative blood tests results.

 

[Daffodil]

@sorin I have to say that I am 110% sure this is not HIV. the tests can detect even a few copies of HIV viral RNA in the blood now...they have gotten too sophisticated to miss it. Furthermore, there is no such thing as low level chronic HIV illness....if you start having symptoms, you go downhill fast. You would be dead by now.

that's the only thing I'm sure of

 

[unto]

@Daffodil,I kissed someone who was sick. we both had just brushed our teeth too. there could have been microscopic blood exchange aside from saliva.,
I am convinced, from personal experience, that the ME can be transmitted
with body fluids (saliva, tears, mucus, semen, sweat (?)) as well as with the blood of course.
In more than 30 years of illness I have seen several people (including family members, relatives, friends) to manifest the symptoms of ME, of course without sex there episodes of blood loss.
I too am inclined to believe a virus or retrovirus
as the cause of ME

 

[unto]

naturally without blood loss

 

[JES]

@Daffodil,I kissed someone who was sick. we both had just brushed our teeth too. there could have been microscopic blood exchange aside from saliva.,
I am convinced, from personal experience, that the ME can be transmitted
with body fluids (saliva, tears, mucus, semen, sweat (?)) as well as with the blood of course.
In more than 30 years of illness I have seen several people (including family members, relatives, friends) to manifest the symptoms of ME, of course without sex there episodes of blood loss.
I too am inclined to believe a virus or retrovirus
as the cause of ME

If ME could be transmitted like that, it would be an epidemic by now. This forum is full of people who are living in a relationship, but haven't transmitted ME to their partner. Virus(es) that cause ME may well be transmitted, but he virus is not ME, it's just one part of this complex disease. Common viruses like enteroviruses can trigger ME, but in 99% of people it doesn't.

 

[unto]

@JES,

I do not believe the origin multifactorial or complex of the ME;I think that only contracting "that specific germ" (unknown virus?) develops the disease, and this is enough.The environment, chemicals, molds, genetics, medical history (which and how many had infections) may explain the diversity of symptoms among sufferers andthe severity of the disease ....If a couple has one of the ME, 90% send it to another;statistics and / or testimonials are not always reliable ......, you have to consider the conflict of interest that the sick person or the couple, that is, the ME sufferer has no interest in being marginalized and marginalize further. .... to admit it in public for his sins (involuntary). Then you can contract slightly ME that it is difficult to see and its awarenessAs I said in other posts, after more than 30 years of ME I have the eyes of an experienced clinician ... and I realize if the person who is close to me manifest the symptoms of ME ....unfortunately this has happened many times

 

[unto]

I said that is enough to contract that specific germ to develop ME and a pair sick facilmemte send it to another

 

[unto]

between spouses the sick easily send it to another...

sorry translations

 

[Seven7]

I am married and child both healthy. I come from family where they respect no used glass, they eat from my plate and use all my stuff. Nobody sick so far.

But I have seen the other thread too, so might be that we have 2 different things going (one that is contagious one that is not) or maybe is the place of the infection that can make it transmissible.

But the second theory do not explain all the ME women with healthy children, they should have been born sick then.

 

[Daffodil]

entire families sometimes have it.....confusing

 

[JES]

@JES,
If a couple has one of the ME, 90% send it to another

Can you give a source for what your information is based on? In many countries ME patients are still allowed to donate blood, even in UK they could do it until 2010. If there was some superbug, thousands of people should have caught ME from blood donations alone. As I wrote, there is strong evidence that enteroviruses are at least partly responsible for causing ME. And almost everyone gets an enterovirus infection at some point of their lives, enterovirus is what causes hand, foot and mouth disease in children for example.