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Developing autoimmune reactions to foods

Messages
33
Has anybody else found themselves developing strange autoimmune like reactions to different foods overtime? I will detail my experience and I am interested if anyone has found anything similar.

For a long time since having cfs, I have had to carefully balance my calcium intake. Too little and I feel horrible, too much and I also feel bad. When I have too little, it feels as though my body is lacking something vital and I feel extremely weak, terrible cognitive function, no sex drive/function, low mood, tingling sensation in feet and toes, ptosis etc. When I have too much it is like my body has produced too much of something in response. I get a rush of energy but cannot concentrate, kidneys get this full feeling, body gets hot and muscles get this unpleasant heavy feeling, like my blood is thick and heavy and I also cannot think clearly, my brain feels clogged.

Note that 1. These symptoms are not simply hypo and hypercalcaemia, my serum calcium levels maintain in the healthy range regardless of which set of symptoms I have. And 2. I cannot tolerate more than around 300-400 mg calcium per day so when I say too much calcium, I don't mean an actual excessive amount. It seems as though my body produces something in response to my calcium intake.

Anyway, for a while I carefully stayed in the correct range of calcium for myself to feel "good" although would sometimes overshoot and trigger these bad symptoms, as it is a very fine balance. But what started happening after about a year, is my body started to develop a bad reaction to foods that I consumed that caused me to overshoot on calcium. For a while I was eating kale as a means of eating enough calcium but then I found that I was able to tolerate less and less. Eventually, eating a small portion of kale would trigger a strange autoimmune like reaction, that is similar to the reaction from eating large portions of calcium, but also noticeably different. At first I get this rush but then soon after I get a slightly stuffy nose and pressure in sinuses and I cannot think clearly. Then the next day, I feel absolutely terrible. I wake up and can barely open my eyes due to ptosis, nervous system feels so weak and I cannot clench my fist, erectile dysfunction and weak feeling all throughout body.

What I have found over the last year is that anytime I overshoot on calcium, it is like my body develops this reaction described above to the food that triggered the overshoot and this pattern has repeated so many times, limiting my diet massively. The package of symptoms that I get is unmistakable and very distinctive and it happens every time I eat that food. It is not psychological, as the symptoms started before I ever thought about this and once I discovered the pattern I was able to improve how I feel a lot.

Does anything that I have described here sound at all familiar to anyone else's experience? I am eager to figure out a solution as this is really making things hard. I am underweight as I have such a limited diet due to reacting badly to so many foods now.
If you read this far, thank you.
 

L'engle

moogle
Messages
3,229
Location
Canada
I have had things like this, though not the specific issue you mention. I've had weird issues with calcium, magnesium and ongoing with potassium.

Vitamin D without vitamin K caused me to have a weird calcium problems but it sounds different to what you are experiencing.

Maybe check into parathryoid if you haven't. There is a PTH parathyroid hormone test.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
610
Location
Brisbane, Australia
In order to be able to notice the effect of individual ingredients, you must have a very clean diet - I'm guessing raw vegan.

I'm at the other extreme end of the food spectrum, the lion diet (the ultimate elimination diet).
I know what you mean. When I consume coffee or chocolate - I feel awful.

Coffee beans contain a modest amount of phytate acid along with a range of other acids but grains and beans are the main source of this acid. Chocolate also contains phytic acid. Phytic acid is broken down by a corresponding enzyme, phytase.

Phytase - Wikipedia said:
Can humans produce phytase?
Phytase is produced by bacteria found in the gut of ruminant animals (cattle, sheep) making it possible for them to use the phytic acid found in grains as a source of phosphorus. Non-ruminants (monogastric animals) like human beings, dogs, pigs, birds, etc. do not produce phytase.
So, we are not suited to eating plants.

Side Effects of Kale said:
Does kale have any negative effects?
Consumption of kale in excess can lead to constipation and stomach irritation.
Due to the presence of oxalates, kale can increase the risk of kidney stones.
Kale contains goitrogens, substances that inhibit the synthesis of thyroid hormone.

Oxalate Toxicity: A Comprehensive Discussion | Elliot Overton
Vegan to Carnivore: Jake Thomas' Unbelievable Health Journey | Dr. Anthony Chaffee
 
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Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
the lion diet (the ultimate elimination diet).
I challenge that claim! Cornstarch pancakes have even fewer components. Meat is far more complex, and varies with the animals' diets. Simple sugars would be even less complex than cornstarch, but lack mouthfeel and stomach satiety.
 

Tsukareta

Senior Member
Messages
150
I have a problem with specific foods but it seems to be caused by leaky gut, it flares up when I have post exertional malaise, especially after unusual physical muscle exertion that I don't do everyday, I seem to be ok if I avoid exercise and don't leave the house. I've never thought about whether my current unusual symptoms could be linked to calcium. There are tests you can do for leaky gut ( zonulin ) and stuff, but I haven't done those tests yet personally, it sounds like your describing a different issue though. It sucks when you have really specific problems beyond the usual ones with ME/CFS ( though that was me for years, moderate with most of the most common symptoms except widespread joint pain / fibromylgia type stuff ).
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
610
Location
Brisbane, Australia
I challenge that claim! Cornstarch pancakes have even fewer components. Meat is far more complex, and varies with the animals' diets. Simple sugars would be even less complex than cornstarch, but lack mouthfeel and stomach satiety.
You can't get all the nutrients you need from cornstarch pancakes, but you can from the meat of ruminant animals.

If you want to go simpler, you could for a period of time do a fat fast or a water fast.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
You can't get all your nutrients from cornstarch pancakes, but you can from the meat of ruminants.
For short-term experiments (minimizing factors in your diet), meeting the RDA of all nutrients isn't important. It's important for long-term diets, but for a few weeks or even months of experimenting, it's not a problem. If you do get dramatically worse on a low-nutrient diet, you have a great opportunity to test nutrients individually to figure out which one is important.
 

marcjf

Senior Member
Messages
127
Has anybody else found themselves developing strange autoimmune like reactions to different foods overtime? I will detail my experience and I am interested if anyone has found anything similar.

For a long time since having cfs, I have had to carefully balance my calcium intake. Too little and I feel horrible, too much and I also feel bad. When I have too little, it feels as though my body is lacking something vital and I feel extremely weak, terrible cognitive function, no sex drive/function, low mood, tingling sensation in feet and toes, ptosis etc. When I have too much it is like my body has produced too much of something in response. I get a rush of energy but cannot concentrate, kidneys get this full feeling, body gets hot and muscles get this unpleasant heavy feeling, like my blood is thick and heavy and I also cannot think clearly, my brain feels clogged.

Note that 1. These symptoms are not simply hypo and hypercalcaemia, my serum calcium levels maintain in the healthy range regardless of which set of symptoms I have. And 2. I cannot tolerate more than around 300-400 mg calcium per day so when I say too much calcium, I don't mean an actual excessive amount. It seems as though my body produces something in response to my calcium intake.

Anyway, for a while I carefully stayed in the correct range of calcium for myself to feel "good" although would sometimes overshoot and trigger these bad symptoms, as it is a very fine balance. But what started happening after about a year, is my body started to develop a bad reaction to foods that I consumed that caused me to overshoot on calcium. For a while I was eating kale as a means of eating enough calcium but then I found that I was able to tolerate less and less. Eventually, eating a small portion of kale would trigger a strange autoimmune like reaction, that is similar to the reaction from eating large portions of calcium, but also noticeably different. At first I get this rush but then soon after I get a slightly stuffy nose and pressure in sinuses and I cannot think clearly. Then the next day, I feel absolutely terrible. I wake up and can barely open my eyes due to ptosis, nervous system feels so weak and I cannot clench my fist, erectile dysfunction and weak feeling all throughout body.

What I have found over the last year is that anytime I overshoot on calcium, it is like my body develops this reaction described above to the food that triggered the overshoot and this pattern has repeated so many times, limiting my diet massively. The package of symptoms that I get is unmistakable and very distinctive and it happens every time I eat that food. It is not psychological, as the symptoms started before I ever thought about this and once I discovered the pattern I was able to improve how I feel a lot.

Does anything that I have described here sound at all familiar to anyone else's experience? I am eager to figure out a solution as this is really making things hard. I am underweight as I have such a limited diet due to reacting badly to so many foods now.
If you read this far, thank you.
An elimination diet might be helpful. Carnivore diet, for example, works well as a starting point for it, which you could try for a short period. Eventually you can try re-introducing foods one by one.
Despite what others might tell you, just do not try carnivore for the long term, as it is not safe. Unfortunately there is a lot of "bro-science" surrounding this diet. But it is a pretty useful tool.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
610
Location
Brisbane, Australia
just do not try carnivore for the long term, as it is not safe.
Humans don't just survive on animal fat and meat, we thrive on it because it's literally what we are made of. It's the miracle cure to western diseases because it is what we evolved to eat over millions of years. It is what our genetic code knows.

Q. Our stomach acid is more similar to?
(a) chimpanzee (pH 7)​
(b) dog (pH 4.5)​
(c) vulture (pH 1.2)​

A. c. Humans (pH 1.5)

And it's a logarithmic scale so the difference between 1.5 and 3 is huge. Think about that.

What other animals have a similar stomach pH to us?
The pH of gastric acid in humans is 1.5-2.0. According to a report summarized by Beasley et al[6], the pH level is much lower than that of most animals, including anthropoids (≥ 3.0), and very close to that of carrion-eating animals called scavengers, such as falconine birds and vultures[6]. Source: NIH National Library of Medicine
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,389
I'm guessing raw vegan.
I used to hang out with the raw food vegan crowd. Id go to their pot lucks.

It made me so ill, this raw food. They mix WAY too many things together to try to make it taste tolerable.

I mean, the sweet potato is RAW. they spend hours in Prep. Maybe there are not alot of odd ingredients like in Prepared Foods, but my stomach can't handle it and I'd be starving, and could hardly wait to get home and eat a proper dinner.

Oh then like these local restaurants. They served dehydrated mushrooms they had rehydrated in something awful.

this is nearly impossible to digest. Mushrooms should be COOKED.
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
Just a thought....my stomach does not have a low ph. Does yours fir sure? Because it takes zinc to make HCL and it takes HCL to digest zinc... a viscious cycle. I find when I start getting food allergy symptoms [wheat - joint pain, depression, vitamins that used to work not working due to poor digestion, etc] I can recover by raising my zinc status. This is not easy.... I try to take apple cider vinegar water or kombucha with my zinc, and I try to persevere despite upset stomach. But I can tamp down wheat allergy with zinc (it is needed to make adrenal hormones, and also to make skin to heal the intestines, also thyroid hormone and Insulin. Don't know if this is any help.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
5,751
Location
Alberta
What other animals have a similar stomach pH to us?
I expect there's a lot more to digestion than stomach pH: enzymes, microbes, various bioreactive chemicals. Vultures went down a different evolutionary pathway, leading to their enzymes, microbiome, etc, optimized at a low pH. I wouldn't be surprised that there's a high-pH digestive system that digests meat just as effectively.

Food doesn't remain in the human stomach all that long, so I don't see why stomach pH should be all that important for digestion. Just checked: the main reason for low pH for carrion-eaters is to kill harmful microbes ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7684463/ ). It also activates pepsin, which helps digest proteins, but I'm not sure how much of that digestion takes place in the stomach. That paper shows that carnivores have a higher stomach pH than scavengers. Human stomach pH seems to be a leftover from when our distant ancestors ate a lot of carrion. (Now humans eat a lot of carry-out.)

So, going by stomach pH, a lion's diet (fresh meat) is not ideal for humans; they should eat rotting meat instead. I think that will be a hard sell for marketers.
 
Messages
33
Maybe check into parathryoid if you haven't. There is a PTH parathyroid hormone test.
I thought about this, but it is very expensive and since my serum calcium is fine, the doctor told me it is unlikely to be an issue. I think I will try it though because it is probably the most promising avenue that would actually be a tractable problem
 
Messages
33
In order to be able to notice the effect of individual ingredients, you must have a very clean diet - I'm guessing raw vegan.

I'm at the other extreme end of the food spectrum, the lion diet (the ultimate elimination diet).
I know what you mean. When I consume coffee or chocolate - I feel awful.
Not raw vegan but I eat a mostly vegan diet. I would like to eat more eggs, meat and fish but unfortunately I get bad reactions from eating meat (different to the calcium reactions I described here) which I think is due to histamine, as they are much worse the longer the meat has been refrigerated and improve when I consume natural antihistamine foods. As for eggs and fish, they contain vitamin d which gives me the same reaction as I described in the post, even if I just have 100iu. This is why it is so hard for me to eat properly.

I limit my oxalates heavily already as they do cause problems for me. Of course I consume some on a plant based diet but I have cut out all the high oxalate foods
 
Messages
33
Just a thought....my stomach does not have a low ph. Does yours fir sure? Because it takes zinc to make HCL and it takes HCL to digest zinc... a viscious cycle. I find when I start getting food allergy symptoms [wheat - joint pain, depression, vitamins that used to work not working due to poor digestion, etc] I can recover by raising my zinc status. This is not easy.... I try to take apple cider vinegar water or kombucha with my zinc, and I try to persevere despite upset stomach. But I can tamp down wheat allergy with zinc (it is needed to make adrenal hormones, and also to make skin to heal the intestines, also thyroid hormone and Insulin. Don't know if this is any help.
I think my zinc levels are in check. I supplement 15mg per day and eat a lot of lentils