Deuterium detrimental to mitochondria?

[sb4]

Has anyone here lowered their deuterium levels and noticed health improvements from doing it?

DDW is crazy expensive to buy and having looked at the process for making it in the freezer I simply don’t have the energy to do that every day. I am thinking of trying reverse osmosis water and adding my salt and concentrace minerals to it.

I have been drinking DDW (yes its f*****g expensive) for just under 2 months. I have improved in this time HOWEVER I've been doing other things (like I always do) so cannot attribute it to DD. I apologies as this is annoying for people reading this thread. On the kruse forums member Jan has had significant health improvements for his conditions about 3 weeks in. Not many others have been trying it though.

Here's a guy drinking pure heavy water (Dec 2016) and still alive and without any obvious health deterioration:

Drinking it one of won't do much. If he drinks a bottle for a month straight, then I'd like to see the results. The problem with too much D is with slowing down reactions, making certain bonds more stable/unstable, and different interactions with light. To see these effects translated to symptoms would take some time I would think.

 

[nanonug]

The problem with too much D is with slowing down reactions

According to the same dude in the video, you'd have to replace at least 20% of the H2O in your body with D2O to start having problems. If your body were composed of 20% D2O, it would be worth billions of dollars in heavy water.

 

[sb4]

According to the same dude in the video, you'd have to replace at least 20% of the H2O in your body with D2O to start having problems. If your body were composed of 20% D2O, it would be worth billions of dollars in heavy water.

I'm not going to watch the video again but I am pretty sure he means a 20% raise in deuterium. IE from 130ppm to 155ppm. Dr Boros wants most people to be under 130, it appears most are at 150. So a 20% reduction would be about right.

 

[tango]

I have been drinking DDW (yes its f*****g expensive) for just under 2 months. I have improved in this time HOWEVER I've been doing other things (like I always do) so cannot attribute it to DD. I apologies as this is annoying for people reading this thread. On the kruse forums member Jan has had significant health improvements for his conditions about 3 weeks in. Not many others have been trying it though.

It’s encouraging to hear that there has been some positive response. I have heard so many Kruse people talking about it that I thought everyone was trying it (along with orange glasses).

To get DDW to New Zealand I would also have to pay $200-500 freight plus customs duty so I will have to make do with the RO water. I’m going to start on Monday as I’m going away this weekend and it will be easier to start when I can control my environment

 

[anne_likes_red]

Has anyone here lowered their deuterium levels and noticed health improvements from doing it?

DDW is crazy expensive to buy and having looked at the process for making it in the freezer I simply don’t have the energy to do that every day. I am thinking of trying reverse osmosis water and adding my salt and concentrace minerals to it.

There's no guarantee all the freezing and UV exposure is lowering D levels anyway. I wouldn't recommend it unless testing showed it might be worth it.
You might have done HBOT at the same place I did. Sorry you didn't see any improvement. I did at the time but it didn't last longer term.

 

[abc123]

Any more experiences with deuterium depleted water, or the testing that cignature health offers? Yes, the water is expensive, but some PWC have the resources to try it...

Is the theory too good or simple to be true? Presumably if it worked as well as these people claim, it would have spread thru the chronic illness communities like wildfire, and there at least would be more than TWO patient success stories on their website...

https://www.ddcenters.com/conditions-fatigue-2/

 

[Ema]

Doris Loh has a very interesting series of deuterium articles on her page.

 

[AguaLite]

I'm not going to watch the video again but I am pretty sure he means a 20% raise in deuterium. IE from 130ppm to 155ppm. Dr Boros wants most people to be under 130, it appears most are at 150. So a 20% reduction would be about right.

There is no reason to lower deuterium content to 130 ppm. Mitochondria will do its work to keep the balance of deuterium content. Some % of variation is possible by drinking DDW daily.
One important thing to know: DDW is not effective against CNS diseases, including ME/CFS, when applied as a stand alone treatment---it must be used together with hydrogen inhalation (flow rate 20ml/minute, 20 to 30 minutes per session, 2 to 3 sessions daily, for 30 days or longer).

DDW makers are located in Hungary, Romania, Russia, China and Taiwan.
Only Taiwanese maker has DDW with hydrogen infusion. Patent of invention approved in US.

 

[sb4]

One important thing to know: DDW is not effective against CNS diseases, including ME/CFS, when applied as a stand alone treatment---it must be used together with hydrogen inhalation (flow rate 20ml/minute, 20 to 30 minutes per session, 2 to 3 sessions daily, for 30 days or longer).

Perhaps you are right my friend. Have you tried combining hydrogen inhalation with DDW? I assume it is the DDW you are inhaling as regular water would be around 155ppm?

Where are you getting this information from?

 

[AguaLite]

Perhaps you are right my friend. Have you tried combining hydrogen inhalation with DDW? I assume it is the DDW you are inhaling as regular water would be around 155ppm?

Where are you getting this information from?

----------------

DDW is water, with less deuterium content (less than 110 ppm), for daily drinking.
Hydrogen for inhalation is gas of molecular hydrogen.

There are many studies about DDW and molecular hydrogen (H2) application.
see: www.molecularhydrogenstudies.com

There are several ways to produce H2. For industrial scale production, Currently the dominant technology for direct production is steam reforming from hydrocarbons. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production For highest purity available, see:
https://www.purityplusgases.com/gas/hydrogen 6.0 means 6N (99.9999 %)

Hydrocarbons do not contain deuterium. H2 produced from hydrocarbons is deuterium free.

Small scale production of H2 use water as source. H2 produced from water has 150 ppm deuterium. There are basically two kind of small H2 makers which use electrolysis process:
1) Electrolysis, using simple electrodes, which produce low grade H2 and O2, mixed. This is not for human consumption.
2) Electrolysis, using proton exchange membrane, which produces H2 and O2 separately.
The grade is about 99.995 % (4N5). This is not for CNS patients, because of its deuterium content.

There are two solutions:
a) Use small hydrogen storage device to get high grade H2 from production plant for inhalation.
Each device may have 10L to 50L charge, at low pressure, using solid metal hydride technology.
b) Use small H2 maker (with membrane, DuPont Nafion N117) with DDW as water source.
Though in this way the H2 produced still has deuterium content, similar to DDW.

In next post, will explain more about how to get H2 gas, from what device.

 

[sb4]

In next post, will explain more about how to get H2 gas, from what device.

Excellent, please do. Have you done this yourself and if so what results did you get?

 

[AguaLite]

For inhalation of H2 gas:

a) Storage device and H2 source
Storage device: https://www.amazon.com/NEW-Horizon-Hydrostik-PRO-Version/dp/B00MONPB1Y
Above is only for reference of a 10L solid metal hydride storage device.
The quality of this H2 tube is not for inhalation. Tube must be made from stainless steel.

H2 gas source: Compressed H2 cylinder, 5N5 purity, 150 to 200 Bar pressure, UK source:
www.boconline.co.uk/en/products-and-supply/speciality-gas/pure-gases/pure-hydrogen/pure-hydrogen.html
Use regulator, lower pressure from 200 Bar to 30 Bar for charging storage device.
Storage device has a flow rate regulator to adjust output to about 20 ml per min.

b) On site H2 maker, for ref. only:
www.fuelcellstore.com/hydrogen-equipment/hydrogen-production-electrolyzers?page=1

www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Water-900-Hydrogen-Breathing-machine-Hydrogen-Water-Generator/163182292677

You can find Chinese makers which make similar products, at much lower price (close to 100 US per set, factory price, with PEM technology. Models without PEM are not usable)
One device may produce 5 ml/min H2. So at least 2 bottles must be connected to provide 10 ml/min.
For patients who need H2 inhalation, source water should be DDW to lower deuterium content.
Purity is 4N5 approx. (99.995%)
------------

About DDW production:
There are at least 3 industrial process to make DDW.
1) DDW is sub-product produced by a Heavy Water (D2O) Plant or a O18 plant.
For example: www.wosotop.com/product/Deuterium_Depleted_Water/

2) DDW is produced by Fractional Distillation process.
For example: www.langvey.ru/en/light-water.html

3) DDW is produced by hydrogen enrichment process.
A patented process: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20170056440
-----------------
In next post, will explain dose, toxicity/efficacy, administration, treatment/maintenance

 

[AguaLite]

Spec. of H2, for inhalation:

Purity: 4N5 (99.995%), when H2 is produced by electrolyzer, with PEM)
6N (99.9999%), when H2 is supplied by metal hydride storage tube
Pressure: less than 2 Bars
Flow rate: 20 ml/min, regulated
Deuterium content: less than 110 ppm, when H2 is produced by electrolyzer
almost zero, when H2 is supplied by metal hydride tube
------------
Spec. of DDW, for drinking:
Bottle format: 250 ml glass bottle, or 500 ml PET bottle
Deuterium content: Equal or less than 110 ppm
Hydrogen infusion: Only in special glass bottle; H2 escapes from PET bottles
------------

Dose:
H2: 2 to 3 sessions/day, 20 to 30 minutes/session
DDW: 1 to 2 glass bottles of 250 ml/day
or 1 PET bottle of 500 ml/day
----------
Toxicity:
H2: 2% H2 for inhalation is routinely used in clinical research. It is about 150 ml/minute.
The average adult, when resting, inhales and exhales about 7 or 8 liters of air per minute.
Flow rate of 20 ml/min is 0.25% approx. With high purity, it´s safe and non toxic.

https://www.gasworld.com/h2-inhalat...-in-japanese-hospitals/2010537.article#/close

DDW:
DDW can be produced from tap (drinking) water by fractional distillation process. It is highly purified water, suitable for daily drinking. The production plant is responsible for the quality control. Products coming from a GMP certified DDW production plant may be a good choice.
-------------

Efficacy:
ME/CFS is related to CNS diseases. On internet there are studies about hydrogen application for CNS related conditions. In our nonprofit treatment center, we regularly deal with patients with CNS related problems which include ME/CFS.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5525017/

In above study, there are two conditions which can be solved by application of hydrogen (and DDW, but DDW is not in this study): ATP production and neuroinflammation.

Separately, in other article, DDW is shown to increase ATP production by raising generator rotor spinning speed (which is lower in sick persons):
https://optimalklubs.com/2017/11/deuterium-depletion-survival/

The combination of H2 and DDW:
Neutralize (selectively) free radicals, lower neuroinflammation, increase ATP production.
-------------

Administration:

H2: Sit on a comfortable chair, put on nasal cannula, take away and turn off cell phone, keep away from electric/ electronic equipment, put away earphone/ headphone, keep calm, regulate flow rate and start to breathe (with H2) normally, for 20 to 30 minutes.

DDW: Always drink at the same time everyday, in same condition mentioned above, sip little volume (about 5% of bottle volume every sip) each time. Keep DDW in mouth for a while, then, swallow slowly. Finish drinking one bottle of DDW in 10 or more minutes. To consume 2 bottles a day, drink one bottle in the morning and one bottle in the evening.

 

[sb4]

Interesting thanks.

In our nonprofit treatment center, we regularly deal with patients with CNS related problems which include ME/CFS.

So to be clear, you don't have CFS but you do treat people with CFS?

 

[AguaLite]

Right. I don't have CFS. The nonprofit treatment center is located in Taiwan. Since H2 and DDW are offered for free in the center, patients should meet some criteria to be admitted for treatment:

Patients suffer noncommunicable diseases; Conventional treatment could not stop progression of their diseases; in late stage of life threatening diseases (such as cancer, COPD, ALS and MS); rare or some CNS diseases with no medicine for effective treatment (such as Tourette's syndrome, Meniere's Disease and Alzheimer's Disease); suffer from serious autoimmune diseases (such as Lupus) and paralysis caused by CVA (cerebrovascular accident).

Application of DDW for therapeutical use has been promoted by Dr. Gabor Somlyai--author of the book -Defeating Cancer: The biological effect of deuterium depletion.

In his book the recommended dose of DDW for daily drinking is quite high. From our experience, a daily dose of 250 ml to 500 ml (with 110 ppm deuterium content) is enough for most treatment, if hydrogen inhalation is also administered.

Most noncommunicable diseases (including cancer) are related to mitochondrial dysfunction.
The logic is, if your therapy is effective against ALS (for example) then most probably the same therapy may be applied to some other diseases because you are treating mitochondrial dysfunction which is the root cause of many diseases.

https://mitochondrialdiseasenews.co...many-disorders-compose-mitochondrial-disease/

http://www.mrc-mbu.cam.ac.uk/mitochondrial-disease
As mitochondria are central to so many important diseases they are an important target for new therapies and drugs. Surprisingly, mitochondria have long been neglected by the pharmaceutical industry.......

 

[keenly]

Studies need to be done with CFS patients and DDW water.

I would try myself, but it is very costly. I think it could help.

 

[AguaLite]

There are (at least) three ways to produce DDW:

1) Fractional distillation
2) sub-product of factories which produce Oxygen 18.
3) Hydrogen saturation

The 3rd way is quite cost-effective. Ref. FOB price, Taipei, Taiwan is 4 US$/bottle of 250ml
One box of 30 bottles costs 120 US$. For the moment I don´t have air freight rate to UK.
This quantity is for 30 days use. Most probably a discount of price may be negotiated for patients.

To get high grade hydrogen gas:
The expensive way is to use hydrogen storage tubes (which use solid metal hydride)
The cheap (and safe) way is to use hydrogen water bottle. The cost is about 100 USD in China.
2 bottles are needed to get 10ml/minute flow rate. One bottle produces 5ml/min.

It is recommended to use DDW to produce hydrogen in this kind of bottles. All waters come with 150ppm deuterium, while most DDW products have less than 110 ppm of deuterium.

Hydrogen bottles must come with PEM technology (proton exchange membrane, made by DuPont)
As a reference: http://gz-hibon.com/Products/Show_60.html
Model H04, with inhaler adapter and nasal tube

 

[AguaLite]

Almost all non-communicable diseases are related to mitochondrial dysfunction.

Most medicines on market are for symptom-treatment. If someone had high blood pressure, then he would be given some drugs to lower his blood pressure. If he had headache, then he would get simple pain relief drugs. For late stage cancer patients, opioids would be given for pain relief.

Not many researchers spent much of their time looking for the root causes of diseases.
Translation: finding some specific small molecule (which is patentable) to CORRECT a specific symptom is more profitable. It´s fine with that mentality. But there is a problem for patients who are waiting for a cure: Eternal waiting.

It seems that something should be in-between: what to do while waiting for a real cure (to be find by big pharma).

Since mitochondrial dysfunction is most probably also related to ME/CFS, then the idea of looking for something which can boost energy production in mitochondria sounds quite reasonable.

There are 1000 mitochondria on average in every cell (except red blood cells). More can be found in more energy demanding places: brain, heart, muscle, kidney and liver. Mitochondria in neuron is a special case because of its length, structure, energy demanding variation, at least 30% of mitochondria inside neuron are in constant movement (move forward, backward or anchored).

There are many nano size rotors (part of the generator of energy) in each mitochondrion.
These rotors spin 130 to 150 times per second. They will spin at lower speed and produce less energy when something went wrong with mitochondria. Dysfunction of mitochondria in different place of the body cause different disease.

DDW is not for a specific disease. It boost energy production in a general way.
This is the reason why DDW and hydrogen are suitable for many kind of CNS diseases (including CFS). We learned and confirmed from studies made in our treatment center.

 

[sb4]

@AguaLite That's very interesting and I may try this stuff again at a later date however I am skeptical in it's ability to treat CFS or at least whatever is wrong with me.

I drank 105-110ppm (1.5-2L) daily for 3 months as well as eating low carb high fat yet didn't really notice much difference. Perhaps I would have benefited from inhaling as well however I would think after 3 months I should have noticed some significant change, if this treatment was to work.

 

[AguaLite]

DDW is not effective against:
1) Inflammation
2) strong oxidative stress

It's helpful in changing mito environment to reduce DNA duplication errors.
If you review studies using DDW for cancer treatment you can see life span prolonged.
A full remission is hard to get.

We treat diseases differently since we use our own treatment center to optimize dose and proportion of H2 gas / DDW.

For example, for COPD, DDW is not essential. Because it is a problem of chronic inflammation.
With inhalation of pure H2, the symptoms may be reduced very quickly, in a few weeks. But the effect can be felt almost immediately after first session of inhalation.

H2 and DDW, combined, is not one plus one. The therapeutical efficacy is amplified.
Although there are many studies about the benefits of hydrogen as antioxidant, it's not readily available. Getting H2 from hydrogen water bottles is not new. But most users don´t know how to do it correctly.

To give you an idea, the factory in China I mentioned had sold many units to their clients. The factory put a pressure valve on the adapter to connect nasal tube. It means the inner pressure of the bottle must be higher than certain threshold to let H2 out. No client had actually breathed H2 from those bottles they bought since in 10 or 20 minutes the inner pressure is not high enough to open the valve. I will give you details so you can do it correctly, in case you buy some units for a try.